[EmperorMagus]

I disliked the finale too. I don't know what they were thinking.

[Cause]

Blasphemy!

[TheRetiredBridgeburner]

My biggest criticism is that it didn't feel like a finale - it felt like a mid-season continuation at best. I also hoped the finale would be one of the strongest episodes of the season and it didn't hold a candle to some of the earlier ones (particularly episode 4).

Not the best, but not the worst. Overall, I'm fine with it.

Spoiler

It's doing an awful lot of book setup for the next series, and I think ultimately that was it's downfall in terms of feeling like a finale.

Also, I felt like I was being dumb because everyone in the fan group I follow on FB assumed the chap Rand was discussing with was the Dark One, and I assumed it was Ishamael. A quick look at those "extras" proved me right at least - we haven't seen the Dark One yet.

Interesting that we get Egwene's Accepted test vision given to Rand but I liked how it was done.

The look at the reality of being burned out by the Power, as described by Moiraine from the Fall of Manetheren, was brutal. Unsure what they're suggesting with Egwene healing Nynaeve, but we know we need Nynaeve to heal Stilling in the future.

Not sure about Moiraine being Stilled - perhaps it's going to replace her trip with the Finn (to be honest, i don't think the show can afford to lose her in the way the books do.) It also frees up Lan's bond if they're not going to "kill" her off.

I don't think for a second Loial, Uno etc are all staying dead, but I don't have a clue how that's going to pan out in series 2. If they are properly dead for good.... that's a huge departure and I'm not on board with it.

[Werthead]

Spoiler

Loial was still breathing, and I suspect Uno was only injured. Why cast him if you're not going to get to his best bits in the books? Yakota is definitely dead: he was supposed to be Ingtar but he got cast as one of the leads in WILLOW so they changed his name and have cast a different Ingtar for Season 2.

This was probably another casualty of Harris leaving: Fain stabs Loial and they can't Heal him without the dagger (in Ep 5 Moiraine drew out the corruption from Mat and put it back in the dagger, so the same may be needed for Loial), hence they need to chase Fain down, as well as retrieve the Horn of Valere. There'll probably be a line where they mention Ogier constitutions are much hardier than humans so the dagger didn't kill him instantly. Cheesy, yes, but I think a reasonable save given the complete bind Harris leaving seems to have put them in.

Moiraine also isn't stilled: Lan didn't freak out and Moiraine is still bound by the Three Oaths. My guess is she's been shielded-and-tied, and they'll find out in the next episode or two how to fix that (foreshadowing for Rand in the box).

The imposing power of the Seanchan was awesome but the costume design felt a bit too OBVIOUSLY EVIL. The Seanchan are supposed to be highly amoral and ruthless but law-abiding and not going around massacring people for no apparent reason, so that was random.

[Chance]

(BK), on 24 December 2021 - 02:30 AM, said:

Ep 8

What an absolute train wreck clusterfuck curved to the left piece of dog shit of a finale that turned into. I was blown away how far and twisted this became from the source. I cut it massive slack up to the start of this utter fart stink of an ender but I just don’t know if I’m cool pressing on after this. Hell I ain’t even going to tag anything just yet. Maybe later I ll be less grumpy and can.

Kudos I guess if ya dig that waste of time.

I was at least onboard for the ride up to Ep8 now I'm not sure I'll see the next season.

Spoiler

Sure I guessed it was Ishamel at the end but such a waste not introducing a few forsaken, also not toasting a few of them.

The blight was laugh worthy.

The battle even worse.

I was kind of hoping for the dragon doing mayhem on the army of the dark one it is a rather iconic moment the starting point really of the series.

Horn of valere...Angreals...Seanchan senseless murdering, destroying resources and gags for their caster...well...

Jordan's original material isn't perfect but it is a few orders of magnitude better than what we are getting here. Still it's a pretty common fault of screenwriters in hollywood very few of them are capable of writing anything halfway decent so whenever they diverge from source material it tends to be bad just my take on the filming of 9 out of 10 books.

The season should have been longer, slower and they should have remained closer to the source, just my opinion.

This post has been edited by Chance: 24 December 2021 - 02:52 PM

[TheRetiredBridgeburner]

Werthead, on 24 December 2021 - 01:15 PM, said:

Spoiler

Loial was still breathing, and I suspect Uno was only injured. Why cast him if you're not going to get to his best bits in the books? Yakota is definitely dead: he was supposed to be Ingtar but he got cast as one of the leads in WILLOW so they changed his name and have cast a different Ingtar for Season 2.

This was probably another casualty of Harris leaving: Fain stabs Loial and they can't Heal him without the dagger (in Ep 5 Moiraine drew out the corruption from Mat and put it back in the dagger, so the same may be needed for Loial), hence they need to chase Fain down, as well as retrieve the Horn of Valere. There'll probably be a line where they mention Ogier constitutions are much hardier than humans so the dagger didn't kill him instantly. Cheesy, yes, but I think a reasonable save given the complete bind Harris leaving seems to have put them in.

Moiraine also isn't stilled: Lan didn't freak out and Moiraine is still bound by the Three Oaths. My guess is she's been shielded-and-tied, and they'll find out in the next episode or two how to fix that (foreshadowing for Rand in the box).

The imposing power of the Seanchan was awesome but the costume design felt a bit too OBVIOUSLY EVIL. The Seanchan are supposed to be highly amoral and ruthless but law-abiding and not going around massacring people for no apparent reason, so that was random.

Spoiler

I only considered the tied off shield afterwards - I think you're definitely right about that. I suspect you're on the money with Loial too.

[Briar King]

Spoiler

Hey lets throw a tsunami at this beach that is completely surrounded by fucking mountains. Sounds like a good idea to me.

Probably some wah waw bullshit why there ain’t a’dam. Not a fan of the pacifiers.

Lews Dragon Reborn!!! Fuck off

I’ve rewatched this shit show of a finale and my opinion is it is still a shit show finale.

Ed ah fuck it it’s probably better to edit all this part out before I get into it with people.

This post has been edited by (BK): 25 December 2021 - 12:16 AM

[Cause]

Spoiler

The age of legends! But we got This instead of the actual eotw prologue? Making letra the tamaralyn seat? Calling lews Therin dragon reborn and not dragon. All odd. However also Letra knowing so clearly that the DO could taint the power if lews therin did his plan makes him seem the arragont idiot some people thought he was in reality.

What is the point of the dragon? Instead of Rand annihilating the trolloc horde and saving shienar, some random women not strong enough to be an aes sedianherself does it. For people who haven’t read the book I’d think they are confused as to why the hell Rand is so important. He has done less than anyone. He made a choice it probably seems anyone could have made. Also giving him a sangreal so it’s not even his power that did it. Wierd. Poorly handled.

They eye of the world is now what! The hall of servants? No aginor, no belthamel. At least if Rand had killed two forsaken he might have seemed important. The horn is in the wrong place. No dragon banner. And we see a chunk of cuellindar broken. If you haven’t read the books I’d assume no one knows what the hell they are talking about, or why it matters. At least have had the dragon in the prologue mention the seven seals that were part of his plan.

The deviations, some are clearly due to mat leaving. It could even be fun to see such a different take on the story but the writing on this last episode has given me no hope.

The seanchan. Instead of Asians with a southern drawl accent. We got what? They look maybe Aztec inspired and I use that description reluctantly. Also why change collars for gags? The controllers also made hand movements, which would seem to make the relegations of what they are a lot more obvious.

[worry]

I thought it was pretty decent. Good in the broad strokes (all the changes were better ideas -- naturally, since Eye of the World is a bad book). Just some flawed execution here and there. For example: "You're beautiful as the sunset" or whatever probably gets worst line of the season, maybe a Darkfriend snuck it into the final script. All of the Shienaran stuff was pretty generic too, they're hardly even characters, but what ya gonna do with 8 episodes.

Spoiler

The whole Last Temptation of Christ thing for Rand makes sense -- both as an opening salvo, and, ultimately, a trap to make the Dragon Reborn feel secure that he 'succeeded' but left kinda heartbroken/isolated. More satisfying than Rand-in-the-books just being a big crybaby in denial and running off for that reason. Still liking the acceleration of the Ta'veren stuff too. Maybe they really can knock out the whole thing before it gets cancelled in 2025, fingers crossed.

[Briar King]

Some thoughts

Spoiler

There is some terrible writing and choices that make zero sense with this show that as a book reader I’m just not ok with. At all. I ll remain silent about it though I think and let others bring these things up.

I think there was a Lady Fade in there but idk if that was on purpose or an accident/slip up with the horrible effects job this ep had..

On 2nd watch I think Agelmar isn’t dead. His armor stopped that spear. He is looking up and I didn’t see anything resembling a “death face” if you will. So I think one of the 5 great captains is alive still.

Moriane is shielded not stilled. I saw this right away that the net effect went over her. Nothing gushed out of her similar In style like Logain.

Gawd I hated the Seanchan so much. Well not as a whole just the Sul’dam and Damane. Those pacifiers got to go.. The tsunami was fucking absurd! Watch that shit again…there ain’t a village it’s just a small strip of beach in front of a massive wall of mountains. Makes no sense to me and was a waste of money imo. Idk maybe they plan to pick back up showing it leveled to land the fleet.

This post has been edited by (BK): 25 December 2021 - 01:58 AM

[Macros]

Watched last night.

One thing I don't think they played across at all, and really should have is the seals.

Also Ishamel, I might have got it because I've read the books, but wifey? Whoosh over the head.
A few missed opportunities for sure on easy viewing tricks (let's line ten seals up in Tar Valon and have one shatter?)

Overall we're happy enough, I never had the love for the series a lot here had and my wife has no knowledge of the series so it was easy watching

[Tiste Simeon]

That was a weird ending.

Spoiler

Clearly he's not killed the Dark One as it was too easy. Dunno who those crazy looking girls on the ships at the end we're or why they thought it was necessary to use a tidal wave to take out one little girl... The multi channelling thing looked pretty cool but did it really achieve anything?

And who the heck is Padran Fain really and what the heck was in that box??

[Briar King]

I was battling myself.. I’ve been trying to ignore the noise online about the battle of the sexes each week as this was in Jordan Prime and it bothered me not one bit. BUT after watching that piece of shit finale twice and then going back and watching key show events I have to agree with the noise now. They turned it up past 11 to 12 and this time it very much bothers me. There is no memorable male character moment I recall other than Logain’s cold open and the sigh of relief the Dragon

Spoiler

is the same person.

Some of the dialogue is very eyebrow raising. I think the final straw for me though was

Spoiler

stealing the Dragons thunder for yet another girl power with horrible writing segment. He’s the goddamn Dragon Reborn and even with a device that is explained for non readers as being something that magnified Saidin we get a fart puff visual compared to Nynaves antenna head raging sun and Black Wind shield. It’s just very tilted to me and they miss the mark on showing the audience the lvl above everyone else the Dragon is while even having Moriane state this fact in ep 4. Rand very much should have been allowed to take out the Trolloc army. His power is checked so horribly because they needed to have something for everyone to do

I really hope this stuff is corrected going forward and I’m not blaming people for calling Rafe out on this shit.

This post has been edited by (BK): 27 December 2021 - 02:56 AM

[TheRetiredBridgeburner]

Can't agree.

Spoiler

Rafe and team have been open about the fact they're making an ensemble piece - which the rest of the series is, even if The Eye of the World book isn't. To do that they had to give some of the stuff Rand does at the end to the other characters. Hence the girls getting the Tarwins Gap bit.

Nynaeve is the strongest female channeler of the age (except I think one of the Windfinders/Sea Folk later? Can't remember exactly.) She is who Rand teams up with to use the Choedan Kal - because she's insanely powerful. She also has a block (which I think they've set up with the Tarwin's Gap bit, but I might be wrong) and no real control until she goes to the Tower. So bursts of power when the situation defeats her block make sense to me.

They've had eight hours to work with, of which the show has confirmed Rand as a channeler for one of them. He has plenty of time to get his groove on with the Power, and I'm sure he will do.

Mat/Perrin have been badly affected by Barney Harris leaving the project. All of Perrin's finale stuff was clearly supposed to be Mat and I'm sure Perrin would have been doing something different, but they had an unfortunate situation to try to solve in the best way they could.

At the moment, I'd say the truly memorable characters are Moiraine, Nynaeve, Logain, Thom, Lan and Steppin (on the basis he had a whole episode devoted to him). Loial's depiction is memorable but haven't seen enough of him yet, and Thom was brilliant for the five minutes he was there but we'll see him again at some point. Egwene hasn't had enough to do yet either, so I think it's disingenuous to pretend the axe is only falling on the male characters. Each to their own though.

[HoosierDaddy]

I am entertained enough to keep watching. While the dialogue is at times rather Star Wars Prequely, the acting is pretty good, they are getting the broad strokes across, and they aren't (IMO) destroying anything vital in the adaptation of the books.


Areas to improve (once again IMO):

Spoiler

They need to make channeling better. Add colors? Add more gesturing? Add exposition if necessary while they are channeling. It suffices for now because it's new and nobody, other than Moraine for the most part needs to be competent in it. But it MUST be made to look simply cooler for this show to be a great success to me. The entire story rests on spectacular and overwhelming displays of raw one power use to me. Otherwise it's just another broody, historical fantasy.

Get Mat more involved (I understand the situation with the actor here, but it needs to be improved).

Edit: Oh yeah. Perrin sucks so far. I can't remember if he sucked this badly in TEOTW, but yeah. They need to get him up to speed. Him and Mat.

More violence please. Be brutal like with the Aiel fight scene to start episode 6 and the trollocs butchering people.

That's all I've got.

I'd give it a 6.5 for now.

This post has been edited by HoosierDaddy: 27 December 2021 - 06:29 PM

[Briar King]

Perrin’s only highlight in S1 is that he “sees something up ahead” in the Ways blowing everyones minds two seconds later when they come to the guide stone. Yay Perrin!

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

(BK), on 27 December 2021 - 10:31 PM, said:

Perrin's only highlight in S1 is that he "sees something up ahead" in the Ways blowing everyones minds two seconds later when they come to the guide stone. Yay Perrin!

You're forgetting about

Spoiler

the wolves. Though I'd suppose you could say the wolves did that.

Episode 8 SFX made me lol again multiple times.

Acting wasn't terrible, though it was distractingly underwhelming in a couple of places.

After reading the book description of

Spoiler

Rand destroying the army

I can understand why book fans are upset. (Like the prophecy Cause quoted, it's surprisingly poetic. Maybe RJ would have been better off writing it as an epic poem? One of the few series that would benefit from being written like the Silmarillion?)

But I liked what they substituted for it, and given how bad some of the SFX were... I doubt it would have turned out well.

[Cause]

Book spoiler thoughts contained below

Spoiler

The idea that the dragon could possible be reincarnated as a women really alters the themes of the books. A female dragon isn’t scary, she wouldn’t be mad and she could even be a trained aes Sedai. I’m fact it’s would be wierd if powerful, or arrogant aes sedai have never sought the title. The whole thing alters the foundation of the world. Only female channelers are safe, and it’s created a world where female power is much stronger and more obvious than ours. Would the white tower still a few male dragon claimant?

One way the dragon proves themselves is by drawing calandor. A powerful male sangreal locked away for their return. Only why would a female dragon want it. So this prophecy would need tweaking.

Saying the dragon could be female has a much more profound effect than just making it seem that egwene or nymaeve could be the dragon.

I mean the prophecies make clear the dragon will be a force for chaos and destruction even as he is the only chance for salvation. 14 books of people trying to kill him, undermine him or resist him because he is a man that can channel. A man doomed to go mad. The whole dynamic just doesn’t exist in the tv series yet. And why would it when their is a coin shot chance a women who is sane could be the dragon.

This post has been edited by Cause: 29 December 2021 - 03:24 PM

[Macros]

Ugh, you're such a chauvinistic pig Cause!
So only A MAN can save the world?

[HoosierDaddy]

Cause, on 29 December 2021 - 03:21 PM, said:

Book spoiler thoughts contained below

Spoiler

The idea that the dragon could possible be reincarnated as a women really alters the themes of the books. A female dragon isn’t scary, she wouldn’t be mad and she could even be a trained aes Sedai. I’m fact it’s would be wierd if powerful, or arrogant aes sedai have never sought the title. The whole thing alters the foundation of the world. Only female channelers are safe, and it’s created a world where female power is much stronger and more obvious than ours. Would the white tower still a few male dragon claimant?

One way the dragon proves themselves is by drawing calandor. A powerful male sangreal locked away for their return. Only why would a female dragon want it. So this prophecy would need tweaking.

Saying the dragon could be female has a much more profound effect than just making it seem that egwene or nymaeve could be the dragon.

I mean the prophecies make clear the dragon will be a force for chaos and destruction even as he is the only chance for salvation. 14 books of people trying to kill him, undermine him or resist him because he is a man that can channel. A man doomed to go mad. The whole dynamic just doesn’t exist in the tv series yet. And why would it when their is a coin shot chance a women who is sane could be the dragon.

But... look at all this mystery we've created! Yes it's not logical... but... it goes to 11!