[QuickTidal]

Azath Vitr (D, on 19 December 2024 - 06:26 PM, said:

Oh they'd blink. And the stiff upper lip might tremble and convulse in denunciation. But would it give the order to attack US forces? Seems doubtful.

This assumes that "US Forces" would follow orders to attack/invade a sovereign ally nation on the whims of a dictatorial madman...

[Mentalist]

So, is the NDP really expecting to benefit from this no-confidence vote?

Or are we all in "let's just see the world burn" type of mood?

[LinearPhilosopher]

spring election....

Which on the one hand, hey the capital gains bullshit won't get passed (as its a confidence measure)

But on the other hand, Dayum i picked the wrong year to join the tax software dev world.

As much as i hate PP, i don't see him inadvertantly launching an attack on my profession for the next little while so that makes me happy.

This post has been edited by LinearPhilosopher: 22 December 2024 - 08:47 PM

[Abyss]

Mentalist, on 21 December 2024 - 05:53 PM, said:

So, is the NDP really expecting to benefit from this no-confidence vote?

Or are we all in "let's just see the world burn" type of mood?

I suspect that they think they can end up as Opposition. Singh likely is betting his leadership on it.

I also suspect they overestimate the level of hate/dislike for a Lib party post Trudeau.

[LinearPhilosopher]

Abyss, on 25 December 2024 - 04:46 AM, said:

Mentalist, on 21 December 2024 - 05:53 PM, said:

So, is the NDP really expecting to benefit from this no-confidence vote?

Or are we all in "let's just see the world burn" type of mood?

I suspect that they think they can end up as Opposition. Singh likely is betting his leadership on it.

I also suspect they overestimate the level of hate/dislike for a Lib party post Trudeau.

Associating with JT is political cancer. Better to be known for bringing him down rather than waiting till fall 2025 for the same result

[LinearPhilosopher]

https://www.theglobe...y-late-january/

Might be an election even faster

[Tiste Simeon]

Trudeau Resigns. I didn't believe it, but it's Trudeau

BBC News - https://www.bbc.co.u...ve/clyjmy7vl64t

[QuickTidal]

Tiste Simeon, on 06 January 2025 - 04:35 PM, said:

Trudeau Resigns. I didn't believe it, but it's Trudeau

BBC News - https://www.bbc.co.u...ve/clyjmy7vl64t

It was bound to happen. The hate train for him was long and visceral. He was never as bad as they say he is...but he wasn't winning any favours by not taking responsibility for his mistakes.

So now what happens you may ask?

Well he prorogued Parliament till March 24th, so nothing until then. In the meantime a vote will occur for a new Liberal Leader to be interim PM...and either a non-confidence will happen in March and an election will trigger, or if the NDP decide to stretch things out more they could see how the new leader handles things and keep the liberals in power till October. I think NDP leader Singh knows he's toast either way so I don't see why he'd help usher in the Cons early for no real gains. EDIT: Singh also is very aware that he is one election cycle more on his PM attempt than he should have (h should have stepped down as NDP leader last time he lost), so this is REALLY his last kick at the can as NDP leader....so he really has no reason to help PP into power. So if I had to guess I would think we will see the interim Liberals in power till October (but the NDP may surprise us)...but the two times that a leader has stepped down and been replaced in the interim Leader led to the two worst defeats in Canadian history (John Turner and Kim Campbell)...so I'm fairly sure that unless something wild happens in Singh's camp or the interim Lib leader they choose does a BUNCH of shit the cons want....we are still looking down the barrel of a PP Prime Minister and a Con majority.

Which make note, he will fix nothing, he will bend over for Trump, and the only thing he will do is "axe the tax" carbon tax (and then will quietly have to sort out what to replace it with to stay in line with the G7 emission targets; and you can be sure it won't be forcing Cap & Trade back in the provinces)...and then spend his time blaming Trudeau for everything anyways and act like his party is the dew from angels nipples while the Liberals were the most evil and tyrannical party ever to hold parliament...I bet GOOD money that the first time a FUCK POLLIEVRE flag comes out, he is going to have a hissy fit and get them arrested.


Anyways, us Canadians are about to be in for an even rougher ride than we've been having, but now it will be because of an even MORE corporatist govt being in charge and they will sell us down the privatization river and bend over for the Trump admin in the states....

EDIT 2: If the new Liberal leader is SMART they will cut PP's legs from under him and get rid of the Carbon tax themselves, goose housing, and cease immigration entirely for the time being...PP would have no platform and the. Cons would have to scramble to campaign on something...they won't...but it would be nice to see.

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 06 January 2025 - 05:09 PM

[Abyss]

Yep, buh-bye PMJT, he gave it a good run considering how he got the job in the first place. When it was announced that the Lib caucus was assembling today 'look at their charter and protocols' the writing was on the icewall.

Singh... it would take an absolutely dire new level of low from the Liberals to give Singh the boost he would need to take the NDP into opposition status. And considering how divisive a Cons gov w NDP opp would be, I suspect Canada overall is better off without. Let the Cons have their turn, four years of PP wrecking things should be enough to keep them out for another eight or so. I am worried about health care tho. The lessons of Alberta have been lost on too many people. Or hey, maybe someone genuinely wonderful will arise among the Liberals and oh who am i kidding....

[QuickTidal]

Abyss, on 06 January 2025 - 05:24 PM, said:

Yep, buh-bye PMJT, he gave it a good run considering how he got the job in the first place. When it was announced that the Lib caucus was assembling today 'look at their charter and protocols' the writing was on the icewall.

Singh... it would take an absolutely dire new level of low from the Liberals to give Singh the boost he would need to take the NDP into opposition status. And considering how divisive a Cons gov w NDP opp would be, I suspect Canada overall is better off without. Let the Cons have their turn, four years of PP wrecking things should be enough to keep them out for another eight or so. I am worried about health care tho. The lessons of Alberta have been lost on too many people. Or hey, maybe someone genuinely wonderful will arise among the Liberals and oh who am i kidding....

Yeah, that seems the right of it. Like down south..."OKay, your guy has his shot now....you whined and pissed and moaned about the previous govt, now your guys has all the power, let him fix all the shit he said he was going to and we will see where you are on the other side of that when he doesn't..."

Like PP is ostensibly going to have the power to fix EVERYTHING he's bitched about...and I'm going to enjoy watching him fix fuckity none of it and try to blame the Libs for why not... while he has a supermajority.

I reserve the right to "I told you so" every single Conservative voter member of my family...

sidebar: though I am talking to my sister and brother-in-law again and we have a relationship where we largely now avoid politics...they both adore RFK down south, still support Trump as Canadians..and my niece is about to work for a US company that is run through Musk...fuck me...

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 06 January 2025 - 05:41 PM

[Abyss]

I just hate this feeling of 'well hopefully they don't do TOO much damage' when the stark example of just how much damage they can do is right there in the middle of the country flailing wildly demanding money for oil no one wants to pay for health care they gave away to their private sector buddies.

[Tiste Simeon]

Your politics confuse me. The Liberals are... Not liberal? Singh is one of the better ones? Who are the NDP and the PP (aside from an immaturely funny name to say?)

[QuickTidal]

Tiste Simeon, on 06 January 2025 - 06:38 PM, said:

Your politics confuse me. The Liberals are... Not liberal? Singh is one of the better ones? Who are the NDP and the PP (aside from an immaturely funny name to say?)

Conservatives = Right Wingers (similar to your Tories)
Liberals = Centrists/Corporatists who act like they are left wing, but are really just right of centre on most things and bow to the whims of corporations and lobbyists...just not as much as the Cons do.
NDP = Our true Left Wing party, but have never formed government and have only run things at the provincial level in some provinces.
Green = Also left but have never had a decent leader or much of a foothold in parliament with any notable seats.
...there are others but they don't matter.

PP is Pierre Pollievre...the conservative leader (current opposition) who has been trying to become PM his whole ass life and is a POS.

The Cons and Liberals exchange federal power every 5-10 years, and both act like the NDP are the devil and if they would be elected the country would dissolve...so the true left never gets a chance and the two right wing parties swing us back and forth between them by becoming so unlikable we vote them out. This cycle will repeat until we have election reform to get away from FPTP, or until we give the NDP a chance at the federal level finally.

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 06 January 2025 - 07:40 PM

[Tiste Simeon]

Sounds remarkably similar to us. Our Labour party is supposedly left wing but any true left elements get squashed. There was a time when Corbyn was in charge but any progress made then has been undone.

[Mentalist]

QuickTidal, on 06 January 2025 - 07:39 PM, said:

Tiste Simeon, on 06 January 2025 - 06:38 PM, said:

Your politics confuse me. The Liberals are... Not liberal? Singh is one of the better ones? Who are the NDP and the PP (aside from an immaturely funny name to say?)

Conservatives = Right Wingers (similar to your Tories)
Liberals = Centrists/Corporatists who act like they are left wing, but are really just right of centre on most things and bow to the whims of corporations and lobbyists...just not as much as the Cons do.
NDP = Our true Left Wing party, but have never formed government and have only run things at the provincial level in some provinces.
Green = Also left but have never had a decent leader or much of a foothold in parliament with any notable seats.
...there are others but they don't matter.

PP is Pierre Pollievre...the conservative leader (current opposition) who has been trying to become PM his whole ass life and is a POS.

The Cons and Liberals exchange federal power every 5-10 years, and both act like the NDP are the devil and if they would be elected the country would dissolve...so the true left never gets a chance and the two right wing parties swing us back and forth between them by becoming so unlikable we vote them out. This cycle will repeat until we have election reform to get away from FPTP, or until we give the NDP a chance at the federal level finally.

Adding to this: rural ridings and the Prairies always vote Con, Atlantic Canada and the big 3 cities (Vancouver, Montreal and Toronto) typically always vote Liberal, and the elections are typically decided by several dozen seats representing Toronto suburbs, that tend to oscillate every 2 elections.

So in effect, very little changes. And until we move on to Proportional Representation for Federal elections, things won't change in any meaningful way, bb/c the "left-leaning vote" is typically always split in the FPTP system

This post has been edited by Mentalist: 06 January 2025 - 11:47 PM

[Abyss]

I admit to curiosity whether the backlash against the Libs but more specifically PMJT is enough to propel the NDP to opposition. I'm doubtful, the economy is too big an issue to let the NDP gain that much ground, but it doesn't seem to be unthinkable. Still i don't think the Libs are where the Cons were after the Mulroney/Campbell finale, but hey, once upon a time the Bloq Quebecois formed the Opposition... sometimes anything goes.

[QuickTidal]

Abyss, on 07 January 2025 - 03:20 PM, said:

I admit to curiosity whether the backlash against the Libs but more specifically PMJT is enough to propel the NDP to opposition. I'm doubtful, the economy is too big an issue to let the NDP gain that much ground, but it doesn't seem to be unthinkable. Still i don't think the Libs are where the Cons were after the Mulroney/Campbell finale, but hey, once upon a time the Bloq Quebecois formed the Opposition... sometimes anything goes.

I'd like to see it...ANYTHING to get out of the constant Libs & Cons shitshow at the federal level...

I'm miffed that Singh didn't take his leadership walking papers in the last election loss like he should have.....because I feel like with a better leader there might be more momentum behind a push that gets us an NDP Opposition...but everyone is tired of Singh. NDP will turf him after this next loss, but my kingdom for a world where he'd stepped back already and let someone else be the face of the NDP.

Also, it seems like Ford now has to shit or get off the pot....he's got a majority for another year+ if he leaves things alone...but if he wants to stay in power he needs to get an election off before the Cons take the federal level and PP and Trump start pulling shit to make the Cons more unpalatable...adding in that once the Cons are in federally, he can't blame the feds anymore like he's done for 8 years as he'd be attacking his own side of the spectrum...I COULD see him trying to get the writ out this month to try for a winter election...but I gotta wonder if he would get a majority again....


Man I hate Canadian politics...it's been shitshow for my whole ass life.

[Mentalist]

QuickTidal, on 07 January 2025 - 03:59 PM, said:

Abyss, on 07 January 2025 - 03:20 PM, said:

I admit to curiosity whether the backlash against the Libs but more specifically PMJT is enough to propel the NDP to opposition. I'm doubtful, the economy is too big an issue to let the NDP gain that much ground, but it doesn't seem to be unthinkable. Still i don't think the Libs are where the Cons were after the Mulroney/Campbell finale, but hey, once upon a time the Bloq Quebecois formed the Opposition... sometimes anything goes.

I'd like to see it...ANYTHING to get out of the constant Libs & Cons shitshow at the federal level...

I'm miffed that Singh didn't take his leadership walking papers in the last election loss like he should have.....because I feel like with a better leader there might be more momentum behind a push that gets us an NDP Opposition...but everyone is tired of Singh. NDP will turf him after this next loss, but my kingdom for a world where he'd stepped back already and let someone else be the face of the NDP.

Also, it seems like Ford now has to shit or get off the pot....he's got a majority for another year+ if he leaves things alone...but if he wants to stay in power he needs to get an election off before the Cons take the federal level and PP and Trump start pulling shit to make the Cons more unpalatable...adding in that once the Cons are in federally, he can't blame the feds anymore like he's done for 8 years as he'd be attacking his own side of the spectrum...I COULD see him trying to get the writ out this month to try for a winter election...but I gotta wonder if he would get a majority again....


Man I hate Canadian politics...it's been shitshow for my whole ass life.

NDP won't get any major gains until we switch to PR, then they might be able to get their 25-30% of the seats.

As long as we stick with FPTP, the picture won't change in any meaningful way.

[QuickTidal]

Mentalist, on 07 January 2025 - 06:28 PM, said:

NDP won't get any major gains until we switch to PR, then they might be able to get their 25-30% of the seats.

As long as we stick with FPTP, the picture won't change in any meaningful way.

This is sadly 100% accurate.

[Abyss]

QuickTidal, on 07 January 2025 - 03:59 PM, said:

...
I'm miffed that Singh didn't take his leadership walking papers in the last election loss like he should have.....because I feel like with a better leader there might be more momentum behind a push that gets us an NDP Opposition...but everyone is tired of Singh. NDP will turf him after this next loss, but my kingdom for a world where he'd stepped back already and let someone else be the face of the NDP...

Is there someone else? I get the sense that no one is really grasping for the job.

Quote

Man I hate Canadian politics...it's been shitshow for my whole ass life.

There are worse shitshows around... ours is far from perfect but ill take it over the alternatives.