[Whiskey Mike]

A part that really stands out for me(when she is saving Quick Ben) is when she kicks one of the hounds in the head and it goes flying against the wall and bricks go everywhere..I get that she was possessed by cotilion and possesses the assassin skills and all that but the strength it would take to actually send a hound of shadow or Deragoth whirling through the air from a kick seems a little overpowering. any ideas where this karsa like strength comes from? or did I miss read it?

[Aptorian]

You could argue that she used the hounds momentum to send it crashing through the wall by angling the kick maybe. Or that she was using shadow dance mojo to infuse her kick with extra strength.

In reality it's probably easier to just conclude that you don't want to start a fist fight with an Ascendant.

Think of Dassem Ultor throwing a soldier like a Horseshoe in NoK. Think of Gessler breaking his hand when he punched Coltaine on the nose in DG. And these people were only on the cusp of ascending.

Apsalar is a carbon copy of a God of Killing Things, she will fuck you up.

EDIT: The problem with this logic however is that if Ascendant super strength is real, then no mortal fighter should be able to block a strike with a sword from an Ascendant since their swing would be brutal.

Better to just accept that the rule of cool is in effect.

This post has been edited by Apt: 17 December 2014 - 04:25 PM

[worry]

To sum up: she has supernatural power and precision.

[Abyss]

Apt, on 17 December 2014 - 04:21 PM, said:

...

Apsalar is a carbon copy of a God of Killing Things, she will fuck you up.

Oh nicely phrased!

Quote

EDIT: The problem with this logic however is that if Ascendant super strength is real, then no mortal fighter should be able to block a strike with a sword from an Ascendant

Name one who has. (Seguleh don't count and Kallor isn't a true ascendant. )

[Aptorian]

Good point. Thinking about it the only one who really comes to mind is Trull versus Icarium and you know who in a later book. Icarium isn't an ascendant but he is super strong.

I guess you could argue that Trull was getting mojo from the role he was playing.

[Abyss]

Apt, on 18 December 2014 - 07:43 AM, said:

Good point. Thinking about it the only one who really comes to mind is Trull versus Icarium and you know who in a later book. Icarium isn't an ascendant but he is super strong.

I guess you could argue that Trull was getting mojo from the role he was playing.

Trull is already aspected at that point, possibly even ascending.

I'd argue Icarium is an ascendent, albeit it's a different kind of ascension, but however we intepret him, he's far from baseline Jhag.

I'll cheerfully repent if someone quote fus me, but i'm fairly sure that as of the end of TB (NoK included), no human has gone blade to blade against an ascendent and not had their asses kicked.
We've seen some variations... the Marines taking down Karsa in HoC comes to mind.

There are some examples in later books where things get more interesting, but i won't spoil.

[BellaGrace]

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Name one who has. (Seguleh don't count and Kallor isn't a true ascendant. )

Why do Seguleh get a pass? They're mortals still.

This post has been edited by BellaGrace: 18 December 2014 - 04:16 PM

[worry]

That's an assumption.

[Abyss]

BellaGrace, on 18 December 2014 - 04:16 PM, said:

Quote

Name one who has. (Seguleh don't count and Kallor isn't a true ascendant. )

Why do Seguleh get a pass? They're mortals still.

worry, on 18 December 2014 - 06:45 PM, said:

That's an assumption.

Restricting to what we know of the Seguleh as of the end of TB.... (this is the TB subforum people... remember that....)

Mok in MoI was strong enough to behead a Kell Hunter, go toe to toe with an Imass First Sword, and sensed how Envy's Poliel invokation was affecting Garath when Envy herself didn't.

The Soldier of Death's chat with Cutter suggests thr Seguleh's origins are mixed in with Darujhistan and the Tyrants.

That all strongly suggests there's more going on with the Seguleh than simply a mortal isolationist warrior cult.

[worry]

Don't worry, I'm absolutely aware it's the TBH subforum.

It's an assumption that the best Seguleh aren't ascendants and it's an assumption about how supernatural powers work in general (on a binary of ascendance/mortal...in fact I believe by this point we can say there's at least one spectrum, likely multiple). Is Chun Li an ascendant because when she kicks really fast her feet catch fire? I doubt it. She's channeling the supernatural through a skill she's mastered. In this particular fantasy world there's no reason to believe that a monastic obsession with swordplay doesn't tap into the supernatural, and plenty of reason to believe it does.

[Spoilsport Stonny]

worry, on 18 December 2014 - 07:13 PM, said:

monastic obsession

My new metal band.

All that ascendant stuff aside -though not to diminish it in any way - I think Apt was more right when he said she used the hound's momentum against him + the rule of cool. The real point is that even though it stands out to OP, not many seem to be bothered by it and based on the context of the world in which the story takes place, its entirely believable that she's capable of such a feat.

[Whiskey Mike]

At what point do you see her ascend...is it just because she was possessed or was there another instance where you specifically she her ascend. I just assumed she was a possessed mortal who retained some of cotilions thoughts and abilities.

[Whiskey Mike]

If you go back to that seen there is no momentum...she kicks it in the head and it goes head over heels and smashes in a wall sending bricks flying...maybe someone can quote the scene...I just remember saying to myself holy shit she just sent something the size of a horse flying with a kick to head...kind of puts her strength on part with Karsa!

[worry]

I'm not sure she's a capital-A Ascendant, but she has certainly ascended somewhat due to her contact with Cotillion. If Karsa is 1000 feet in the air, and Apsalar is 50 feet in the air, they've both ascended. It doesn't make them equals, it just means they've both transcended the natural state.

[Fiddler]

Another way to think of Ascendancy is like a battery, some Ascendants, like Rake have a very large battery and can do some awesome things like flex all Dragon at times. Some people, like Paran do not have a large battery at first but they can pull off a few things that need to happen. Over time that battery gets larger and larger and next thing you know you can do amazing things. Apsalar has been possessed by a God, that left her an array of abilities and powers that she didn't understand, but as she comes to learn them and what they mean, well, let's just say the battery gets bigger.

I think what you're talking about is the application of power, that application of power can be anything from Kimloc's song to Karsa's flint blade, but in the end it is all just an application of power and that can be expressed in different ways at different times, perhaps that is the key to ascendancy...

I think that her strength varies due to whether she applies her power to it, after all, being super strong has got to be hell when you're trying to pick up a fork and eat with it and you keep snapping it into pieces.

[Andorion]

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I think that her strength varies due to whether she applies her power to it, after all, being super strong has got to be hell when you're trying to pick up a fork and eat with it and you keep snapping it into pieces.

Unless you're Karsa in which case you can eat the meat, bone and fork at the same time.

But joking aside I rather like your battery theory. Makes sense.

[Aptorian]

Lets not descend into a who'd win debate but going by what we've seen Apsalar and Cots do, Apsalar would probably destroy Karsa in close combat.

Apsalar is every bit as powerful as Cotillion and Cots is an ascendant with a capital A.

This post has been edited by Apt: 19 December 2014 - 07:46 AM

[Andorion]

Apt, on 19 December 2014 - 07:45 AM, said:

Lets not descend into a who'd win debate but going by what we've seen Apsalar and Cots do, Apsalar would probably destroy Karsa in close combat.

Apsalar is every bit as powerful as Cotillion and Cots is an ascendant with a capital A.

Would it? Shadow magic would be nullified. Leaving her bladed weapons, speed and strength vs Karsas flint sword, strength and endurance. Going by the amount of damage Karsa can take it would be one hell of a fight, but if he managed to land one solid hit it would be devastating.

[Spoilsport Stonny]

She walked the Path of Hands and decimated countless Claws in a single night. Even Shadowthrone himself said "not even Cotillion..." or something to that effect. Unparalleled. But still could die from a single sword thrust.

[Aptorian]

Andorion, on 19 December 2014 - 05:10 PM, said:

Apt, on 19 December 2014 - 07:45 AM, said:

Lets not descend into a who'd win debate but going by what we've seen Apsalar and Cots do, Apsalar would probably destroy Karsa in close combat.

Apsalar is every bit as powerful as Cotillion and Cots is an ascendant with a capital A.

Would it? Shadow magic would be nullified. Leaving her bladed weapons, speed and strength vs Karsas flint sword, strength and endurance. Going by the amount of damage Karsa can take it would be one hell of a fight, but if he managed to land one solid hit it would be devastating.

The thing about Cotillion, who is the one we are really discussing here, is that he doesn't brawl. He kills. Apsalar would use her 100's of years of experience and supernatural speed to finish the fight before it begins. Karsa's tough but he can still be killed with precision strikes. Arterial openings and severed tendons would be what you'd expect from her.