Illuyankas, on 17 August 2015 - 05:11 PM, said:
Yeah, I'm definitely interested in your take on this subject, I hadn't really heard of Zwarte Piet before and what you've said already is worse than what I expected.
Also the way to instantly prove any European who says 'racism is over' a filthy liar is to ask them their opinion on the Roma. It's as eyeopening and as pleasant as that Clockwork Orange scene.
You can ask me your questions of Zwarte Piet - I don't know how much help I'll be though, as I only "celebrated" it during elementary school.
Morgoth, on 18 August 2015 - 06:11 AM, said:
Yeah, if anyone claims racism is not a problem in Europe they're deluded. I don't know much about the Netherlands (they wear clogs and look like Tapper), but in Norway there is a lot of casual racism. For instance, I live in a part of the city with a sizeable muslim minority, and people ask me all the time if I'm scared at all. Of course I'm not, it's one of the most peacefull areas of the city, but because there's dark men with beards everywhere it's perceived as dangerous.
I don't think I''ve ever seen anyone wear clogs XD And we're pretty multicultural, so there's no 'one' way we look. BTW, who's Tapper?
Terez, on 18 August 2015 - 07:05 AM, said:
If everyone in the Netherlands looked like Tapper, they'd have a serious (possibly illegal) immigration problem on their hands.
I say this a lot, but I was raised in Confederate culture and despite having what I think are the best possible intentions these days I still often catch myself making almost habitual assumptions about people based on race from time to time. Segregation is still bad in Mississippi, much as it is anywhere with a significant black population in the US. Aside from the black-white divide, we don't have much racial diversity. I'm from the coast; there's a fair-sized Vietnamese population there, more significant I think than our Latino population (though that might have changed since Katrina brought a lot of day workers to the area), and also a smaller but still fair-sized Eastern Indian population.
At my music school, though, almost our entire string section was from south of the border, because high school music programs in the South are poor and we don't have orchestras. Just bands and choirs. There are a few exceptions, usually really nice schools in suburban (white flight) areas, but for the most part my university had to use scholarships to recruit string players from Central and South America (along with any super-talented musicians from other areas; they weren't quite as picky about the string players).
There was some social integration in the student body between Americans and Latinios, but not much. And I always kind of felt at a loss as to what to do about it, since I'm socially retarded in any circumstances. There is often a language barrier as most of them speak Spanish or Portuguese and some don't have the greatest English, but I don't think that fully explains the general segregation.
Anyway, there was this white kid with a fro who played violin during my second stint in college. He seemed like a nice guy, musically talented, etc., and one day he sat next to me at recital class or something, and trying to make conversation with him I said something like, "Is it weird to be the only American guy in the string section?" Which was just dumb (and a major oversimplification of my thought process on the issue). And of course, he responded, kind of contemptuously, "....not really" and then he probably went and told all his friends about it. Hard to blame him. But my response about what can be expected from people whose inherited social circles are racially homogenous, as is so often the case even where non-white people are a majority.
Writers like Ta-Nehisi Coates are bringing the sociological discussion of racial construction into the mainstream, the history of whiteness, how the definition keeps on changing. In my mind, the violinist dude is white. That perception could change if I knew more about his ancestry. He would have certainly been "suspect" in the past. Also, after centuries of blatant white supremacy, there are real cultural barriers. Kids in the US these days are much better at crossing those barriers but there are still lurking problems, even in the kids with good intentions.
Talking about it can be frustrating, especially since the work is never done, but awareness is the first step to fixing the problem, and to Lycaenion directly, you should by all means take whatever opportunities arise to rant to people who might give a fuck, because we might learn something and carry it with us into conversations with other Dutch people (the kind who might ruin your Christmas), and maybe some day it will make a difference.
Thanks
Though they don't ruin my Christmas: Sinterklaas and Christmas are two different holidays here. And we have two days of Christmas instead of one. I believe the second day is called Boxing Day in the UK? Did you know that Coca Cola's Santa was based on Sinterklaas? Though he's a much more fun and magical version
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