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Ferguson / USA Race Violence / Etc

#581 User is offline   Nicodimas 

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Posted 22 August 2016 - 06:36 AM

Here is one that all should watch if your interested in the police shootings...This happened in one of my local cities.

Basically a body video exists that show's a very clear situation of Police telling a drunk person to comply. It sounds like he did..but until the video is shown..we will never know. I guess someday it will be released, but after justice has been served..I can't decide if that's one of the more ridiculous things stated..transparency is key here.




I honestly don't see how we can't release the video, in other cases throughout the country, every video seems to be released*.

This post has been edited by Nicodimas: 22 August 2016 - 06:39 AM

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#582 User is offline   worry 

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Posted 21 September 2016 - 03:52 AM

There's been several more shootings/killings this past week, and I think it might be repetitive to react to all of them, since each one just solidifies my same views that much more.

In news of something pretty new, however, a Massachussetts high court has ruled that when a black man flees from the police they 1) might just be justified in doing so, and 2) it may not qualify -- in and of itself -- as "suspicious behavior" in terms of being sufficient cause for an officer to investigate that person. There's some legalese involved, I think, as it seems to leave a lot of it up to the discretion of judges in individual cases. But all in all, I kinda love it. A win for civil liberties.

http://www.wbur.org/...-to-flee-police
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#583 User is offline   worry 

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Posted 06 December 2016 - 10:28 AM

Yeah, it's remarkable, since that video showed one of the most unambiguous cases of the past few years. It's cold comfort at best, but at least it wasn't an acquittal, and at least we know 11 of the jurors were right on and it was just 1 stubborn guy who refused to see a cop as 'guilty'.
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#584 User is offline   QuickTidal 

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Posted 13 March 2017 - 06:11 PM

So this happened...

http://www.bbc.com/n...canada-39238309
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#585 User is offline   worry 

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Posted 05 April 2017 - 05:02 AM

Investigative reporting on police shootings in Florida (as a sort of microcosm I suppose), with specific comparisons between black and white victims (I say victims because it addresses variables like obvious direct threats to cops, etc.). It's not an article so much as a well-made slideshow w/ animated visuals. Only takes a couple minutes to get through.
http://www.tampabay....if-youre-black/
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#586 User is offline   Tsundoku 

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Posted 03 April 2018 - 10:13 PM

Only heard about Stephon Clark for the first time yesterday.

Are the cops in America truly that afraid or and/or have that bad a siege mentality? Does anyone have the stats on the rates they get attacked, to be that afraid?

Ties in with what happened to our own Justine Damond - but am I being cynical in thinking a big factor in the officer concerned being charged over her death is that she was a white foreign woman and the officer is African?

This post has been edited by Tsundoku: 03 April 2018 - 10:14 PM

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#587 User is offline   worry 

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Posted 03 April 2018 - 10:41 PM

If I may generalize, police in America have a dysfunctional relationship with the communities they are meant to serve and protect. In certain areas, that means an adversarial, occupation-style mindset removed from the public. Like as a status quo, distinguished from what we might consider "corruption". Often they are trained to shoot first and ask questions later, get home safe. So when you see advocacy groups like BLM or even just families of victims asking for accountability, they're asking for it from officials and institutions that aren't necessarily even trying to avoid it, but don't see police overreach/overreaction as wrong in the first place. It's a feature not a bug.

When that intersects with American racism -- latent or overt -- the results are tragic beyond measure. I highly recommend reading through this thread, which is policy focused rather than stat focused, but includes information that highlights current issues: https://twitter.com/...020195925757957

To answer your more specific stat question, this might be helpful (from US Bureau of Labor and Statistics): https://www.bls.gov/...ficers-2014.htm

Information that stood out to me:

Quote

On average, 115 police and sheriff’s patrol officers suffered fatal work injuries each year from 2003 to 2014. Another 30,990 nonfatal injuries involving days away from work were reported for police and sheriff’s patrol officers on average each year from 2009 to 2014.

...

Nonfatal injuries and illnesses in 2014 that caused police officers to miss work resulted primarily from violence and other injuries by persons or animals and falls, slips, and trips. The primary causes of fatal occupational injuries among police officers in 2014 were violence and other injuries by persons or animals (56 percent) and transportation incidents (41 percent).

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#588 User is offline   Tsundoku 

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Posted 04 April 2018 - 01:44 AM

Seems like they'd save a bunch of police lives if they observed basic WH&S and cut down on the doughnuts.

Yeah, I think it's the fear and the fear-based training rather than the actual shootout stats. Some of those suggestions in that twitter thread looked interesting.

Did not know anything at all about the police unions before today.
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#589 User is offline   Tiste Simeon 

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Posted 04 April 2018 - 06:34 AM

The police in this country were condemned as being institutionally racist a couple of decades back (read up on Stephen Lawrence - there is much to it and I don't have time right now) and instead of digging the heels in, things started to change, slowly.

I'm not suggesting we're now perfect by ANY stretch but police killings are very rare and when they do happen they are, on the whole, justified in the circumstances (ie the shot was taken to prevent further loss of life.)
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#590 User is offline   worry 

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Posted 04 April 2018 - 07:25 AM

That's pretty interesting. The pursuit of justice is an ongoing process and perfection isn't ever really possible. But progress requires trying, which happens piecemeal here.

I don't know how it sounds to other countries that we handle so much of these big questions state-by-state. I live in the state where Stephon Clark was killed, California, which actually isn't super progressive on this issue at the moment -- but it is right now considering a change in policy that would shift the use of force laws to require an "only when necessary" threshold for lethal force, rather than the current standard of "when reasonable". If both sound nebulous at first glance, I'm with you, but what it means is that instead of in-the-moment-am-I-scared? reasoning -- which is literally all it takes to justify lethal force in most states -- officers must exhaust all other reasonable options first. Also, that what they do leading up to a lethal force incident will be taken into account (in terms of escalation/de-escalation, etc.). If you think it's crazy that's not already the standard, I'm with you there too.
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#591 User is offline   Silencer 

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Posted 04 April 2018 - 01:33 PM

View Postworry, on 04 April 2018 - 07:25 AM, said:

That's pretty interesting. The pursuit of justice is an ongoing process and perfection isn't ever really possible. But progress requires trying, which happens piecemeal here.

I don't know how it sounds to other countries that we handle so much of these big questions state-by-state. I live in the state where Stephon Clark was killed, California, which actually isn't super progressive on this issue at the moment -- but it is right now considering a change in policy that would shift the use of force laws to require an "only when necessary" threshold for lethal force, rather than the current standard of "when reasonable". If both sound nebulous at first glance, I'm with you, but what it means is that instead of in-the-moment-am-I-scared? reasoning -- which is literally all it takes to justify lethal force in most states -- officers must exhaust all other reasonable options first. Also, that what they do leading up to a lethal force incident will be taken into account (in terms of escalation/de-escalation, etc.). If you think it's crazy that's not already the standard, I'm with you there too.


Yeah, that should literally be the law already.

As someone who has lived in a small country with mainly national level laws, and a medium size country (well, geographically fucking gigantic, population on the small end) that has state laws, albeit the majority of things like this are still legislated at a national level.... States are fucking stupid, the variations in laws for common things between states make life needlessly complex (e.g. Tenancy laws, sale of property laws, driving laws) and to have variations in the practice and implementation of law enforcement - a fundamental constant of a nation - is actually actively working against the goal of a functional society.

Everything I've seen has led me to believe that states are a poor unit of government. Councils and districts should be the next smallest step after a national government and their powers for legislation should be limited to that domain - rates, parking, littering, noise control, public transport (save where the size of the project is significant or the city has trouble running services properly). In other words, administrative functions and maintenance functions for the day to day running of the city/town/region, freeing the national government to focus on major infrastructure, legislation, and long term planning and budgeting.

Obviously immediate oversight of police operations and the like would be at a regional or city level but the legislation and codes of practice would be at the national level as would ultimate oversight and responsibility.

The only purpose I see for state governments is to coordinate larger geographical groups of city councils etc, by which I mean overseeing the implementation of national policies in a uniform manner (because I appreciate 300 million or so people over an area the size of America probably requires some coordination at a higher level than your average council) but again, this shouldn't be of the legislation creation or interpretation variety.

America's hard-on for hating federal government is almost as weird as the hard-on for guns (though I appreciate they're very closely tied together) but if you have no interest in acting like a coherent nation then why be one? And seeing as the individual states can't really be self-sufficient (and wouldn't want to be, no matter what the extremist states' rights folks might like to fantasise about) then they need to actually unify and start behaving like a single nation.

It's utterly perplexing from where I'm sitting (and from here it mostly looks like a misguided, state-level version of nationalism coupled with an irrational level of fear of an unlikely to occur tyranny). And before anyone points out the states that are resisting Trump I'd just like to turn your attention to all the states that have been behaving like Trump for the past decade or two. Not really a net positive at this stage. B)
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#592 User is offline   D'rek 

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Posted 04 April 2018 - 01:56 PM

Trying to have one unified federal standard for every little thing has its own problems, too. You end up with all standards being made in the capital and which don't account for important local variances - e.g. Alaska's climate means it *should* have special variations to driving/licensing laws and standards which a civil servant/legislator in Washington DC might not be aware of/motivated to specify an exception for in the federal mandate. States having their own driving standards/laws lets Alaskan drivers get the right laws/standards for them rather than be neglected by the federal system, but as you say it also leads to lots of minor variances that are annoying and even detrimental to citizens. There's no perfect system.

As much as the U.S. being one big unified country has been a big boon in history (e.g. easy for the whole country to suddenly mobilize its enormous population and industry to oppose the Nazis), I feel like the more ideal framework today would be if all the states were independent countries, and then each of their national governments could have reached agreements to share certain standards, have open borders, etc, EU/eurozone/schengen-style. Only issue is you need Russia and China (and India, Canada, Brazil, Australia) to split up at the same time.

View Postworrywort, on 14 September 2012 - 08:07 PM, said:

I kinda love it when D'rek unleashes her nerd wrath, as I knew she would here. Sorry innocent bystanders, but someone's gotta be the kindling.
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#593 User is offline   Tsundoku 

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Posted 14 April 2018 - 05:25 AM

Does this sort of shit really happen? WTF!?!?!? :D

http://www.news.com....f129533aa388a55

Black dudes waiting in Starbucks for a friend hadn't ordered anything but the Police were called on them, they were arrested (these guys are apparently real estate brokers) and taken away in handcuffs. For what? Being black in a Starbucks?
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#594 User is offline   worry 

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Posted 14 April 2018 - 05:42 AM

Check out what happens when a black kid misses the school bus: https://www.huffingt...4b077c89ce82acc
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#595 User is offline   EmperorMagus 

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Posted 14 April 2018 - 06:39 AM

View Postworry, on 14 April 2018 - 05:42 AM, said:

Check out what happens when a black kid misses the school bus: https://www.huffingt...4b077c89ce82acc


He should have approached their door with hands held high, rang the bell, and then lied faced down on the ground with his hands at the small of his back.

It's not the poor homeowner's fault that the kid doesn't know basic black etiquette.

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#596 User is offline   Tsundoku 

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Posted 14 April 2018 - 06:49 AM

Dear USAnians: something is terribly, fundamentally wrong with your country.

You know, just FYI ...
"Fortune favors the bold, though statistics favor the cautious." - Indomitable Courteous (Icy) Fist, The Palace Job - Patrick Weekes

"Well well well ... if it ain't The Invisible C**t." - Billy Butcher, The Boys

"I have strong views about not tempting providence and, as a wise man once said, the difference between luck and a wheelbarrow is, luck doesn’t work if you push it." - Colonel Orhan, Sixteen Ways to Defend a Walled City - KJ Parker
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#597 User is offline   worry 

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Posted 14 April 2018 - 10:02 PM

Just caught Wyatt Cenac's new show on HBO, Problem Areas. It's a mix of address-the-camera topical comedy a la John Oliver or W. Kamau Bell (but w/ no audience, slightly looser) & filmed documentary/interview pieces. Looks like each episode is gonna cover a few small stories up top, but the big story across all ten episodes is going to be policing in America. The tone is well-balanced, imo. Decent episode, looking forward to the rest.
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#598 User is offline   Tsundoku 

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Posted 12 May 2018 - 11:14 AM

Ah, the LAPD: We Treat You Like A King :killingme:

The problem with policing algorithms is if the data fed into it is a bit ... disproportionate:

https://futurism.com...past-offenders/
"Fortune favors the bold, though statistics favor the cautious." - Indomitable Courteous (Icy) Fist, The Palace Job - Patrick Weekes

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"I have strong views about not tempting providence and, as a wise man once said, the difference between luck and a wheelbarrow is, luck doesn’t work if you push it." - Colonel Orhan, Sixteen Ways to Defend a Walled City - KJ Parker
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#599 User is offline   Tsundoku 

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Posted 27 May 2020 - 05:49 AM

So ... George Floyd huh?

The inquiry over this one should be interesting (unless it's a complete cover up).
I know we didn't see why he was arrested and what happened before the video started but whoa ... :(
"Fortune favors the bold, though statistics favor the cautious." - Indomitable Courteous (Icy) Fist, The Palace Job - Patrick Weekes

"Well well well ... if it ain't The Invisible C**t." - Billy Butcher, The Boys

"I have strong views about not tempting providence and, as a wise man once said, the difference between luck and a wheelbarrow is, luck doesn’t work if you push it." - Colonel Orhan, Sixteen Ways to Defend a Walled City - KJ Parker
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#600 User is offline   Tiste Simeon 

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Posted 27 May 2020 - 09:13 AM

He was arrested because a grocery store employee thought he was writing a bad cheque.

And this around the same time as the utter shcumbag Amy Cooper calls the police because a black man asked her to out her dog on the lead. The video is horrendous she says to him "I'm going to call the cops and tell them that an African American threatened my life!"

Awful people.
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