[worry]

And if you wanna know how backwards things can be here, while some locales have very low minimum intellectual standards, some also have maximum standards:
http://abcnews.go.co.../story?id=95836

[Tiste Simeon]

worry, on 05 December 2014 - 10:45 PM, said:

Tiste Simeon, on 05 December 2014 - 12:44 PM, said:

This article might provide a reason as to there not being a charge on the cop re: Eric Garner... I dunno enough about things myself but it's an interesting perspective whether you agree with it or not.

http://nypost.com/20...-garner-arrest/

For the record (since you ain't in the US), the NY Post is a Rupert Murdoch-owned tabloid and is never to be trusted.

Ooh OK. Good to know.

[HoosierDaddy]

Morgoth, on 05 December 2014 - 08:22 AM, said:

Just make policing a college degree as one does in the civilized world and all is well.

This is a nice idea. That being said, you'd then have to pay them more.

Paying people who do public services in the US outside the medical sector (teachers, firefighters, police) high wages is not going to happen outside tax-raises. And the odds of raising taxes are the same as raising Cthulhu, successfully.

[Morgoth]

I don't know. Seems to me raising a great old one is not such a daunting feat if we are to believe renowned historians such as professor Lovecraft.

[Nicodimas]

To those that look at the cost of a college degree:

http://market-ticker...glepost=3351996

[amphibian]

HoosierDaddy, on 06 December 2014 - 09:28 AM, said:

Paying people who do public services in the US outside the medical sector (teachers, firefighters, police) high wages is not going to happen outside tax-raises. And the odds of raising taxes are the same as raising Cthulhu, successfully.[/font]

Teachers and extremely young in their careers firefighters/police are the ones that do not have good salaries. Detectives and above as well as moderate/senior firefighters routinely clear 90k a year in just about every city and most town in the US, sometimes even up to 130k a year. Yeah, some of that is overtime, but it's a great salary in comparison to what teachers and the very junior firefighters/police get.

[worry]

We know the Tamir Rice case is insane. He was a local kid playing at the park across the street from his home, as he often did. The toy may or may not look real, but the 911 call mentioned it was likely a toy, and even if that wasn't relayed to the police, the cop shot him immediately upon arrival. They weren't interested in whether it was real or not, and never saw the much-touted missing orange cap. That's just what we saw, plainly. As it turns out, the Tamir Rice tape excerpt they released to the public doesn't show everything. What it left out: 4 solid minutes of officers ignoring the boy they just shot (zero first aid, took an FBI agent coincidentally in the area to arrive and respond to injuries). His 14 year old sister arriving to see her brother and being distraught; subsequently the police officers who shot him putting her in handcuffs and sticking her in the back of their cop car (the one they drove up in, the one sitting right next to her injured brother). They threaten to do the same to his mother once she arrives on the scene. All this while Tamir is there, shot but still alive. He died in hospital the next day, not there at the scene let alone quickly...it's unclear what those 4 minutes could have done, but it's too late to find out.

There was another recent NYPD shooting, not getting so much press, of Akai Gurley. He was walking down his apartment complex's stairwell with his girlfriend Melissa when a cop -- from a floor above -- entered the stairwell and immediately upon seeing Gurley fired upon him. Gurley staggered down two flights of stairs and fell. As he lay dying, the cop who shot him wasn't calling emergency, he wasn't even talking to his superiors (6.5 minutes of radio silence)...he was texting his union rep. While the person he shot lay dying. It was Melissa who ran to a neighbor's apt and they called 911. In fact, emergency AND their commanding officer both knew those cops were in the area ( weren't supposed to be doing "vertical" investigations of buildings btw) and tried to contact them, with zero response. That one is going to a grand jury too.

I don't know what's gonna happen but I think if nothing comes of the Tamir Rice case in particular there may be hell to pay.

[Illuyankas]

Hahahahaha white cops being punished for killing black people hahahahahahaha

what next a unicorn

[worry]

The "if" was rhetorical.

[Studlock]

That video gets my anger every time I see it. He shots and then hides as if the 12 year old boy who you've just driven up on and blasted is a cause for alarm. And now this horseshit. Honestly I wouldn't be able to stand it if I was black in the states but I guess that it's my privilege of being able to be angry and not fucking terrified.

[Nicodimas]

Illuyankas, on 09 December 2014 - 10:34 PM, said:

Hahahahaha white cops being punished for killing black people hahahahahahaha

what next a unicorn

If people every wondered what triggers my right wing thought line..it's this.

This section of reality. I carry for this reason, cause the Rule of Law is broken.

If you know going in that we create laws for a reason..then don't enforce those to certain sections..why am I being taxed for this shit.

[Morgoth]

I must admit that had I been black and living in the US, I might feel it necessary to take advantage of carry laws too. Looking the way I look though, I believe - and that's really the worst aspect of all of this - that I would be relatively safe from the police.

[worry]

That's another thing with Tamir Rice though. Ohio is an open carry state, and you can look at it from both sides. Argument 1: "But not for anyone under 18!" Well he only had a plastic toy bb gun (that he borrowed from a friend, countering corollary 1a that his parents were awful for letting him have it), and those aren't illegal for anyone of any age. Argument 2: "The gun looked too realistic!" He wasn't holding the gun when the cop immediately shot him. The cops called him in as a 20-year-old suspect (black youth are routinely age-overestimated by others*), so in an open carry state -- from the officer's POV -- it still should have been fine. Either way you look at it, the killing was wrong.

Your intuition is right.

*http://www.thewire.com/politics/2014/03/people-including-cops-view-black-kids-less-innocent-and-less-young-white-kids/359026/

[Illuyankas]

Nicodimas, on 10 December 2014 - 02:47 AM, said:

Illuyankas, on 09 December 2014 - 10:34 PM, said:

Hahahahaha white cops being punished for killing black people hahahahahahaha

what next a unicorn

If people every wondered what triggers my right wing thought line..it's this.

This section of reality. I carry for this reason, cause the Rule of Law is broken.

If you know going in that we create laws for a reason..then don't enforce those to certain sections..why am I being taxed for this shit.

Spoiler alert the increasing inefficiency of government regulation is because of, and in fact the target of, rightwing pressure, and not despite of. 'Starve the beast' is a thing, just as the otherisation of minorities is too (fill in your own catchy phrase for that here).

[Aptorian]

Morgoth, on 10 December 2014 - 06:58 AM, said:

I must admit that had I been black and living in the US, I might feel it necessary to take advantage of carry laws too. Looking the way I look though, I believe - and that's really the worst aspect of all of this - that I would be relatively safe from the police.

But isn't this major issue? Civilians carrying guns in public. Possibly concealed.

You and I live in Scandinavia. Guns are rare. Ignoring gang crime the worst a cop can usually expect to show up to here in Denmark is some mentally ill person with a knife or somebody jumping on an unfortunate victims head outside a bar. In America you could be showing up to anything. Anyone could be equipped with a tool that can kill you instantly. That has to be scary as fuck. I also assume that it tends to make a cop less prone to negotiate if they see what the think is a weapon in somebody's hand.

I am not arguing that this excuses the above mentioned acts of negligence and outright cruelty. I am saying that this kind of working environment has to create a mental state where you are more likely to shoot first to protect yourself and the bystanders around the suspect. I wonder if most cops when they get a call of somebody with a gun in public aren't going into that situation shit scared and high on adrenaline before they even arrive on scene.

[Cause]

Morgoth, on 10 December 2014 - 06:58 AM, said:

I must admit that had I been black and living in the US, I might feel it necessary to take advantage of carry laws too. Looking the way I look though, I believe - and that's really the worst aspect of all of this - that I would be relatively safe from the police.

Black people carrying guns to protect themselves from possibly racist police officers would be the worst idea they could pursue. It would simply justify anything the cops could think of.

[Morgoth]

Not if it would be legal for them to carry. I mean, I understand where you're coming from, and I certainly do not condone a society where you would or should arm yourself. However, had I been black living in a neighbourhood like that the police would be about the most dangerous people around.

@ Apt - being a police officer in the US is not particularly dangerous, relative to other professions in the US that is. Living and working the US in general is more dangerous than in the rest of the West.

[Illuyankas]

A fair point to mention is that some of the strongest gun regulations proposed by a Republican government were almost directly in response to Black Panthers standing around in public and legally holding guns.

[Obdigore]

Morgoth, on 10 December 2014 - 12:06 PM, said:

@ Apt - being a police officer in the US is not particularly dangerous, relative to other professions in the US that is. Living and working the US in general is more dangerous than in the rest of the West.

And the counter to that is that the police officers are trained to shoot first if they think they are in danger, since everyone could be packing heat.

It's extremely hard to get any kind of statistics regarding how much this protects police officers.

Also, I want to note that the ratio of violent crimes for the UK and the US are the same, its just that the US' violent crimes are much deadlier due to the proliferation of firearms. This is something the police (and public, and everyone else) has to deal with. It's a problem.

[Obdigore]

Illuyankas, on 10 December 2014 - 02:07 PM, said:

A fair point to mention is that some of the strongest gun regulations proposed by a Republican government were almost directly in response to Black Panthers standing around in public and legally holding guns.

Lets not go that far!