[theocean]

I know it states that the remaining hounds of darkness are a 7 being d'ivers. The hounds of shadow were basically created, so im guessing they are not d'ivers, what of the hounds of light? Anyone have any other info on the relationship of the three with eachother and how they all started out?

[Spoilsport Stonny]

Firstly, kinda spoilery title.

Moving on from that, its crazy but we know more about the Deregoth than either of the other two. Bonehunters has alot to say about the nature of the Shadowhound/Deregoth relationship, especially when Paran, Ganath and Hedge join the Trygalle Trade Guild through Veredith Anath, to the giant statues of the Deregoth. Still, we probably won't know more until Fall of Light,

Spoiler

although its interesting that a few quotes here and there and some hints have pointed to the Hounds of Shadow being somehow related to the Jheleck and that Tulas Shorn is their "master'. I will need more proof of that, although there is definitely a connection to Shadow.

The Hounds of Light? Who knows. They aren't even supposed to exist.

EDIT: And even with the hounds of Darkness, there seems to be - and I dont recall any evidence that disputes this - NO connection at all between the Tiste Andii and the Deregoth, despite some connection with the other two to their respective holds.

This post has been edited by Spoilsport Stonny: 24 November 2014 - 09:37 PM

[worry]

God smiled His radiant smile, and the people burned in its glory. They basked in His attention even as it seared their skins. They spent their lives in pilgrimage to lie at His feet. Yet year after year, generation after generation, only very few made it while most burned up into ash or less. When that fortunate few arrived at His feet they realized something: they were no longer burning. God's smile did not address them directly and they were actually cooled in His shadow. Their numbers grew slowly, very very slowly, as they watched the pilgrims approach and most burn into cinders. Many generations passed in peace and contentment, until one day there arose a Dissenter. He asked "Why must most of our people burn up before they reach this place? What good is earning God's smile when it destroys most of our friends, our families?" Many struck him, many more yelled and cursed him, and finally he was cast out to live not at God's feet, but behind His back. However, soon he was not alone; a handful of men and women were convinced by the Dissenter's words, some of the oldest and wisest of the group, some quite young and naturally rebellious, and they joined him in exile. After much discussion they decided on a plan: a team would ascend God's back to His head and make their case into His ears: "Please, God, hide Your smile for just a portion of the day and it will save countless lives of those devoted to you." They set out, or up, and many days of trial and peril later they reached His right shoulder. The Dissenter approached God's ear, humble but determined, and made his case. Immediately God reached His hand up and smote the Dissenter like a mosquito, and flung his mangled corpse into the distance. His followers were frozen in shock, unbelieving. Until one among them shouted in rage and rushed up God's shoulder, up His bearded cheek, and clambered toward His mouth. The rest followed, and before God could react, they used their climbing tools to smash out His teeth.

Now God staggered, and many of the worshipers at His feet were stepped upon while the others dodged to and fro. Finally God's teeth crashed down upon the ground, and they were transformed into blazing white Hounds of Light. They set forth immediately toward the approaching pilgrims, whose lives stretched out for leagues and leagues, and the Hounds tore them asunder as they passed through. Meanwhile, those pilgrims at God's feet who had not been smashed in the tumult has been splashed by the blood on the teeth, and they too became Hounds...not of Light but of Shadow. And last of all, those followers of the Dissenter, who had been closest to that fiery smile and thus burned darkest black, and had been drenched in the most blood and thus turned most bestial, became the Hounds of Darkness. God shook them from His face and turned on all: the Hounds, the pilgrims, the living world. And He ran, toothless and humiliated, and has not been seen since. Humans were left to fend for themselves, bereft and directionless. Some, out of fear or desperation or something else entirely, broke into factions in worship of the various Hounds, following them into their ceaseless wars. Many others invented new gods to rule their lives and give them purpose and structure. And a very few, those elders who had joined the Dissenter but were not able to make the climb up God's back with the brash youngsters, searched high and low for his body. They finally came upon it in a green river valley and buried the Dissenter right where he landed, with modest headstone to mark the place. They built their homes in the valley, a land seemingly sanctified and fruitful, and established the world's first cat sanctuary.

[Vengeance]

Spoilsport Stonny, on 24 November 2014 - 09:34 PM, said:

Firstly, kinda spoilery title.

I agree. Edited the title of the thread. Carry on.

[Andorion]

First, I don't think the Deraogoth are related to the other two groups of Hounds at all. They seem to be ancient creatures of Wu, if you go by Osserc's dream in HoC.

Secondly, The Hounds of Shadow were quite definitely ruled by Tulas Shorn, once.. Cotillion and Shadowthrone seem to have inherited control over them along with the Shadow Warren. But their old loyalties remain to some extent. For example, when the Edur were invading, Cutter called upon a Hound, but it would not fight Edur, so Cotillion had to step in personally.

Thirdly, The Hounds of Light, though going unremarked through the majority of the series, and only showing up in TtH, DoD, and TCG, are a bit peculiar. They can apparently disguise themselves pretty well, as Shadowthrone and Cotillion probably did not suspect heir identity at first in TtH. Also at the battle of the Lightfall, several Hounds were employed and there they seemed not to obey any particular master, but basically any Liosan commander. After all, if Osserc is the guardian of the Liosan, then his son and daughter are theoretically the next level of leadership, but they were not present at Lightfall. The Hounds obeyed the Liosan aristocracy.

Another strange thing about the Hounds of Light, was that they died easier than the Hounds of Shadow. In GotM nobody could scratch a Hound. In TCG, Letherii pikemen managed to seriously wound them before Yedan Derryg cut them up.

And finally, how does all this link up to FoD? Nearly impossible to answer. The Liosan schism is just beginning. Nobody has even heard of the Edur. The Hounds of Shadow and Light may have been products of the bloody civil war. Tulas may have crafted his out of the Jheleck.

[melonhead]

I remember something being mentioned in one of the books about the relationship between the hounds of shadow and the deragoth.

Spoiler

when Captain Paran released the Deragoth to hunt down those divers thingys, (cant remember the name, maybe dejim something) he said before they went for them, they would go to reclaim their shadows first. Meaning the Hounds of Shadow. I also remember something about hounds being elemental forces maybe? I cant even remember what book it was from, but someone said if there are hounds of shadow, and light, and dark, where are the hounds of the other elements?

This post has been edited by melonhead: 25 November 2014 - 08:05 AM

[Inane Babble]

melonhead, on 25 November 2014 - 08:03 AM, said:

I remember something being mentioned in one of the books about the relationship between the hounds of shadow and the deragoth.

Spoiler

when Captain Paran released the Deragoth to hunt down those divers thingys, (cant remember the name, maybe dejim something) he said before they went for them, they would go to reclaim their shadows first. Meaning the Hounds of Shadow. I also remember something about hounds being elemental forces maybe? I cant even remember what book it was from, but someone said if there are hounds of shadow, and light, and dark, where are the hounds of the other elements?

It was Tulas Shorn speaking to ST and Cot, he mentioned that the hounds represent the illusion of being able to have control over power, and that it eventually turns on you. He mentions that there are hounds for every aspect, fire/earth/death etc etc

Seems likely after FoD that Tulas and the Jheleck are somehow involved in the creation of the hounds, but I don't know what that might look like beyond "Tulas sends 7 Jheleck envoys/spies/gifts/warriors to the gates that are born in response to the creation of the gate of shadow."

[theocean]

I thought general book topics wasnt bound by the spoiler rules, my fault.

[melonhead]

Inane Babble, on 25 November 2014 - 08:21 AM, said:

melonhead, on 25 November 2014 - 08:03 AM, said:

I remember something being mentioned in one of the books about the relationship between the hounds of shadow and the deragoth.

Spoiler

when Captain Paran released the Deragoth to hunt down those divers thingys, (cant remember the name, maybe dejim something) he said before they went for them, they would go to reclaim their shadows first. Meaning the Hounds of Shadow. I also remember something about hounds being elemental forces maybe? I cant even remember what book it was from, but someone said if there are hounds of shadow, and light, and dark, where are the hounds of the other elements?

It was Tulas Shorn speaking to ST and Cot, he mentioned that the hounds represent the illusion of being able to have control over power, and that it eventually turns on you. He mentions that there are hounds for every aspect, fire/earth/death etc etc

Seems likely after FoD that Tulas and the Jheleck are somehow involved in the creation of the hounds, but I don't know what that might look like beyond "Tulas sends 7 Jheleck envoys/spies/gifts/warriors to the gates that are born in response to the creation of the gate of shadow."

Ahh thats right, thanks
I really hope we get to see hounds of other aspects. How badass would hounds of fire be? or even better, hounds of ice.

[Spoilsport Stonny]

worry, on 24 November 2014 - 09:50 PM, said:

God smiled His radiant smile, ...

What boook dat at?

theocean, on 25 November 2014 - 02:14 PM, said:

I thought general book topics wasnt bound by the spoiler rules, my fault.

It isn't, but the title appears on the main board and there's some grey area there with exposure to people who haven't read that far, since it can appear in places like Recent Topics Added, etc. No big deal, just an extra layer of courtesy.

This post has been edited by Spoilsport Stonny: 26 November 2014 - 02:00 PM

[theocean]

Spoilsport Stonny, on 26 November 2014 - 01:58 PM, said:

theocean, on 25 November 2014 - 02:14 PM, said:

I thought general book topics wasnt bound by the spoiler rules, my fault.

It isn't, but the title appears on the main board and there's some grey area there with exposure to people who haven't read that far, since it can appear in places like Recent Topics Added, etc. No big deal, just an extra layer of courtesy.

Yea i didnt even think about the main page...


So is there any answers as to which hounds came first? One one a model in some way for the creation of the others?



I gotta ask, whod win?



original 7 versus orginal 7 vs OG7?

[Vengeance]

theocean, on 26 November 2014 - 07:43 PM, said:

I gotta ask, whod win?



original 7 versus orginal 7 vs OG7?

Karsa.....

[Salt-Man Z]

Inane Babble, on 25 November 2014 - 08:21 AM, said:

It was Tulas Shorn speaking to ST and Cot, he mentioned that the hounds represent the illusion of being able to have control over power, and that it eventually turns on you. He mentions that there are hounds for every aspect, fire/earth/death etc etc

I never got the impression that Tulas was saying there definitely are Hounds of life/death/etc.; rather, it seemed to me that he was pointing out that if Hounds exist for Light/Dark/Shadow, they might for other elements, and if they do, what would the ramifications be?