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Shootings on Parliament Hill! The Canadian one!

#61 User is offline   Dadding 

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Posted 24 October 2014 - 02:00 PM

View PostQuickTidal, on 23 October 2014 - 02:49 PM, said:

And now a guy with a rifle, reportedly has been arrested near the Cenotaph in downtown Halifax.

At first it sounded like an unrelated incident, but the fact that the guy was near the Cenotaph kind of freaks me out.

We had a lockdown yesterday at Dalhousie because of an unconfirmed sighting of a man with a rifle. He hasn't been found yet. They did find a sawed-off shotgun on a bus though, but apparently the two cases weren't related. The shotgun was found relatively close to a Historic military site (a couple streets away) and the owner was arrested but there's no indication that it was a specific attack on that area.
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#62 User is offline   Nicodimas 

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Posted 24 October 2014 - 05:53 PM

Quote

The shotgun was found relatively close to a Historic military site (a couple streets away) and the owner was arrested but there's no indication that it was a specific attack on that area.


Is there any rules in Canada about FTF Transactions..This interests me.. In Arizona, you don't need to go to a gunshop to exchange a gun, you can do it privately. I always create a *bill of sale* when selling a gun privately for the above reason.
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#63 User is offline   Cause 

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Posted 24 October 2014 - 06:17 PM

View PostNicodimas, on 24 October 2014 - 05:53 PM, said:

Quote

The shotgun was found relatively close to a Historic military site (a couple streets away) and the owner was arrested but there's no indication that it was a specific attack on that area.


Is there any rules in Canada about FTF Transactions..This interests me.. In Arizona, you don't need to go to a gunshop to exchange a gun, you can do it privately. I always create a *bill of sale* when selling a gun privately for the above reason.


Your allowed to do what now?!!!!!
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#64 User is offline   Obdigore 

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Posted 24 October 2014 - 06:31 PM

View PostCause, on 24 October 2014 - 06:17 PM, said:

View PostNicodimas, on 24 October 2014 - 05:53 PM, said:

Quote

The shotgun was found relatively close to a Historic military site (a couple streets away) and the owner was arrested but there's no indication that it was a specific attack on that area.


Is there any rules in Canada about FTF Transactions..This interests me.. In Arizona, you don't need to go to a gunshop to exchange a gun, you can do it privately. I always create a *bill of sale* when selling a gun privately for the above reason.


Your allowed to do what now?!!!!!


It's called the 'gun show loophole'. Essentially any private citizen is allowed to sell any weapon they own to any other private citizen, without pesky things like background checks, so long as neither party is, or should be, a licensed firearms dealer.
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#65 User is offline   Nicodimas 

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Posted 24 October 2014 - 06:37 PM

Quote

It's called the 'gun show loophole'. Essentially any private citizen is allowed to sell any weapon they own to any other private citizen, without pesky things like background checks, so long as neither party is, or should be, a licensed firearms dealer.


Correct...I am extremely careful and really sell to people that have a Valid CCL, normal procedure here.

A couple of states don't allow the loophole to my knowledge, but Arizona, Oregon, Alaska and New Hampshire have the best gun laws. In Az recently we can carry concealed without a permit.

Disclosure: Used to sell guns at a gun shop for a couple of years.
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#66 User is offline   Obdigore 

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Posted 24 October 2014 - 06:38 PM

View PostNicodimas, on 24 October 2014 - 06:37 PM, said:

Quote

It's called the 'gun show loophole'. Essentially any private citizen is allowed to sell any weapon they own to any other private citizen, without pesky things like background checks, so long as neither party is, or should be, a licensed firearms dealer.


Correct...I am extremely careful and really sell to people that have a Valid CCL, normal procedure here.

A couple of states don't allow the loophole to my knowledge, but Arizona, Oregon, Alaska and New Hampshire have the best gun laws. In Az recently we can carry concealed without a permit.

Disclosure: Used to sell guns at a gun shop for a couple of years.


The 'loophole' is in federal law. So unless states have made supplemental laws that 'close' said loophole, they have it. I couldn't tell you which do and which don't off the top of my head, but some quick research would be able to answer that question for you.
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#67 User is offline   Nicodimas 

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Posted 24 October 2014 - 06:45 PM

Yea, I can guess the states off the top of my head Illinois and California for sure that have extra laws. Not really important. Was wondering really about Canadas laws on FTF transactions. Interesting.

So I guess in Canada this is a foreign concept... So the above owner unless his gun was stolen and he did not report it <totally dumb> is suspect.

<All gun owners should write down there gun serial numbers, guns description and even take pictures of them imo and store them safe in a different location then other valuables>

This post has been edited by Nicodimas: 24 October 2014 - 06:47 PM

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#68 User is offline   Nicodimas 

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Posted 24 October 2014 - 07:05 PM

Also of note this is what the 4th of one these this week ?
http://www.cnn.com/2...cked/index.html
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#69 User is offline   Anomander 

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Posted 24 October 2014 - 08:25 PM

View PostDadding, on 24 October 2014 - 02:00 PM, said:

View PostQuickTidal, on 23 October 2014 - 02:49 PM, said:

And now a guy with a rifle, reportedly has been arrested near the Cenotaph in downtown Halifax.

At first it sounded like an unrelated incident, but the fact that the guy was near the Cenotaph kind of freaks me out.

We had a lockdown yesterday at Dalhousie because of an unconfirmed sighting of a man with a rifle. He hasn't been found yet. They did find a sawed-off shotgun on a bus though, but apparently the two cases weren't related. The shotgun was found relatively close to a Historic military site (a couple streets away) and the owner was arrested but there's no indication that it was a specific attack on that area.

Yeah, things were a bit intense in Halifax yesterday. Shortly after 8am there was a single report of a man dressed in black carrying a rifle in a blanket. The guy was said to have an ear bud in place and was wandering near Citadel Hill (few blocks from the Cenotaph). They did not find this individual. In the course of looking for said person another man was arrested for a concealed firearm. This guy had bused in from Fall River (a rural area bordering Halifax) and when he moved to get off the bus a sawed off shot gun fell out of his kit bag. He fled the scene but was subsequently arrested a short while later.

People were freaked yesterday about anything gun related. Cops were called over a hunter shooting partridge in the middle of nowhere. The fear of copycats is very high right now.
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#70 User is offline   Studlock 

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Posted 24 October 2014 - 08:57 PM

Can a better Canadian tell me why this is causing such an uproar? It's probably the location (right in the central gov't power seat), how it was done, and who was shot but at the same time I've seen people saying shit like 'this was the day Canada lost it's innocence' as if the FLQ crisis never happened. That's not to say I don't empathy for the soldier who lost his life and his family, death is a terrible, terrible thing, death by violence even more so. I'm just having trouble seeing what's so unique about this other than location and victim.
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#71 User is offline   cerveza_fiesta 

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Posted 27 October 2014 - 04:48 PM

View PostStudlock, on 24 October 2014 - 08:57 PM, said:

Can a better Canadian tell me why this is causing such an uproar? It's probably the location (right in the central gov't power seat), how it was done, and who was shot but at the same time I've seen people saying shit like 'this was the day Canada lost it's innocence' as if the FLQ crisis never happened. That's not to say I don't empathy for the soldier who lost his life and his family, death is a terrible, terrible thing, death by violence even more so. I'm just having trouble seeing what's so unique about this other than location and victim.


I'll be anyone's better Canadian!! :unworthy:

We know we have enemies, and we know that people are capable of horrific acts, yet we intentionally keep security at Parliament Hill light as an expresison of our "free and democratic" ideals. I think everyone here kinda gets that. The shootings test our resolve to uphold those ideals, and force us to consider carefully how we effect constructive change without losing sight of them. I think everybody on some level gets that too. The impact of last Wednesday's shooting is felt deeply by all Canadians because of the location and (possibly intentional) symbolism in the act itself. People living in safety & innocence don't typically need to consider what happens when their ideals are challenged. "Innocence lost" might therefore be an apt description for the personal experience, even thought it's kind of a vague, hyperbolic way to put it.

And being realistic, "we've lost our innocence" sounds a lot better in a media soundbite than "Canada has shitty, outdated security procedures on parliament hill". The second statement is probably true, but saying so publicly makes you sound like an asshole in the days following such an event, so I can forgive a bit of hyperbole.


EDITed - grammer n spellin

This post has been edited by cerveza_fiesta: 27 October 2014 - 04:48 PM

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#72 User is offline   Studlock 

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Posted 28 October 2014 - 12:07 AM

While I don't agree with some of the overall sentiment and hyperbolic language (mostly because I fear radicalization of the populous under the banner patriotism but thankfully outside of our Prime Minister, IMO, very inaccurate classification of the attack as a terrorist attack, it doesn't seem to be taking) I get the idea of questioning your values and turning a tragedy into a source of (hopefully) compassion and empathy. Thanks for answering my inquiries.
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#73 User is offline   cerveza_fiesta 

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Posted 28 October 2014 - 12:11 PM

View PostStudlock, on 28 October 2014 - 12:07 AM, said:

While I don't agree with some of the overall sentiment and hyperbolic language (mostly because I fear radicalization of the populous under the banner patriotism but thankfully outside of our Prime Minister, IMO, very inaccurate classification of the attack as a terrorist attack, it doesn't seem to be taking) I get the idea of questioning your values and turning a tragedy into a source of (hopefully) compassion and empathy. Thanks for answering my inquiries.


Yeah, I'm not sure what to make of it yet. I'm definitely in favour of more security around our seat of government...and I think most would agree that much is necessary in modern times.


Convenient that it comes at a time where the gov't was planning introduction of bills granting CSIS more powers for detention and investigation of "pre-crime" for lack of a better term. The context of the attack should spur some interesting debate considering the debators on both sides were directly involved in -- and scared shitless by -- the attack itself.


If nothing else, yay for something interesting happening in Canadian politics I guess.


Funeral proceedings for Nathan Cirillo today too. Very sad (and at times heartwarming) images circulating in the media.
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#74 User is offline   QuickTidal 

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Posted 28 October 2014 - 01:22 PM

I think the media (world, but mostly America) has basically made the words "terror attack" or "terrorist" into something that has to be defined as a "big event".

Meanwhile the word or words themselves are fairly simple. It doesn't matter if it's planes hitting the twin towers, or a lone militant attacking a soldier at a war memorial and then trying to shoot up parliament itself. The goal of both those things...is to strike terror into the populace. This guy knew he wouldn't get far before getting taken down, and especially in the light of the video he shot of himself before he went on his spree (which the RCMP have, but haven't yet released) he was trying to spread terror. The idea he wanted to get across was that we are not safe, even in our annals of government. That's "terror". The RCMP has released a statement saying that the video presents “persuasive evidence” the assault was ideologically and politically motivated.

It's not 9/11 or even the Mumbai attacks, or any other large terror attack...but it is still one regardless. Motivated by politics and religion. There really isn't much else to call it. It's key to denote the level of which the event is, but there isn't anything wrong with calling this "terror".
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#75 User is offline   Una 

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Posted 28 October 2014 - 06:35 PM

Should be interesting what the RCMP investigation finally turns up when they've had a chance to check everything out.

I mean, the press has gone around and interviewed people at the mosque the shooter went to, the homeless shelter he stayed at, and people who went to school with back in the day. There's evidence that he was accessing the (very limited and inadequate) mental health and addiction services in Vancouver, but of course, those people can't talk much because of confidentially rules. My initial impression is of a guy who started off with a reasonable advantage in life (Canadian-born. We don't appreciate it sometimes, but it's a huge advantage. Parents seem to have had enough money to send him to private school.) who went off the rails somewhere and was looking for someone or something to blame for his crappy life. I work in a nice, clean office with relatively few addiction issues and no homeless people now, but during training and early in my career, I did have to deal with quite a few people very much like that. They need help, but they are hard to help. They can be manipulative. They lie, they steal stuff, they can't keep their appointments or follow instructions, they abuse and threaten you. I've never been assaulted, thank God, but there have been times that I have been either seriously creeped out or I thought they would jump up and hit me. And the worst part is that for all your effort and the risk to your personal safety, you never feel like you are making any sort of difference at all. I don't even think this was about religion. The guy got kicked out of a mosque because he was acting crazy and spewing hate speech. Also stealing the keys and letting himself in at night. Strikes me more as anti-social. Guy like that gets on the internet and finds a forum that confirms what he's always wanted to believe, that everyone else around him is wrong and bad and he is special and right, and instead of conforming to present society's requirements of him, which in this case, were stop stealing, lay off the cocaine, quit acting like a jerk, and get a job, the best thing to do would be to bring down society. Too easy to manipulate. If he were white, it would be neo-Nazis or anti-establishment type of crazies. He's Brown, so he found that other bunch of crazies, and away we go. Good thing he wasn't able to leave the country, get training, get assigned a couple of buddies to help him out, then come back. It could have been worse, so someone did do his job there.


The problem I see is that there's so many guys like that out there. Some of them will be perfectly content to just complain to anyone who will listen, beat up their girlfriends, rob convenience stores and mug little old ladies, which is bad enough, but nobody cares. Some of them just might get the right help or have an epiphany and turn their lives around. When that happens, it's awesome. But there's always going to be the one that decides he's going to shoot up the company that fired him, the girl who rejected his advances, the doctor who refused to give him any more morphine prescriptions, or the police who keep arresting him. Or yes, even the living representatives of the country that he believes failed him. Your anti-terror bill is going to help that? I have my doubts. But I'm perfectly happy to wait for them to do their investigation and see what else turns up and what sort of recommendations are made. When we have a problem, we study it and make a report. It's the Canadian way. Then again, we've got Stephen Harper. He wants what he wants and he's going to do it, evidence be damned. His response was exactly what I expected.
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