[Agraba]

Dolorous, you forgot:

Lorn
Hedge
TROTTS
Kalam (I think)
Alrada Ahn (That one got to me)

I have a piece of criticism though.

Sometimes, people are just too good. Kalam shouldn't have been able to take down as many claws down as he did. Each fight was just as if he was newly refreshed after a long rest, when he should have been getting more and more exhausted, with many more falters. That final group should have taken him down pretty quickly. Also, even Apsalar was too good, in my opinion (even though she uses sorcery, and Dancer's touch is making her verge on ascendancy).

And even though Trull is the best Edur with a spear, I think he still held Icarium off longer than he should have been able to. He couldn't beat two Edur veterans, meaning that two Edur blooded warriors can probably hold Icarium off for a bit. And if Quick can throw him back like that, then Tayshcrenn can probably smash him through the wall.

[Dolorous Menhir]

I left out all the BB's apart from Whiskeyjack on purpose. If Hedge can come back and play a major part than Trotts and the others might too. It's seems pretty clear that Kalam didn't die, he's gone into a Rallick Nom-like state.

I did forget Lorn and Ahn though, whoops.

I think Monok is really dead. That was destruction, not ascension.

[Smiles]

The convergence factor is one of the things that sets the novels apart. In our history the deeds of the powerful always draws others either to them or against then, take most of Europe in the last few hundreds of years. So much revolved around charismatic/powerful figures.

In the books the theme of an eventual massive convergence of power is central to events, you can't tell me that a meeting of Karsa and Icarium isn't sought after by most of us, or an eventual showdown between Malazans and the Edur, or on a higher level Paran/Shadowthrone, and other ascendants and the Chained God. There is also so much more to be revealed at huge levels of power (whole cities of short tails), the Forkrul Assail, the Jade Statues...

Convergence is assured because many characters/ascendants will have no choice but to act in order to counter each other, the pathos of Anomander even in GoftM is that he fully realises this and has to act accordingly.

Personally I've never seen any of the novels as being weak, each explore facets of the world that relate to the whole story and have given us deeper understandings of characters like Karsa, Trull, Rhulad and the Imass.

[Smiles]

Not exactly. Apsalar killed most of the Claw, from what I gather she shadowed Tavore's group through Malaz and dismembered lots of them. Tavore, T'amber and kalam killed relatively fewer and they didn't come through unscathed.

Not the same as Tolkien, one main hero dead and a lost hobbit finger

[Clip]

ya but with magic there is no need for an industrial revolution, no need for much technology at all

[Dolorous Menhir]

That's funny, I've never seen someone complain that SE kills too many of his characters before...

[Murrin]

Apsalar is an Ascendant. That's the distinction: she has an excuse for being that good.

[Folken]

Clawmaster said:

"You would may be prefer a Tolkien style for them (Tolkien style = They were 100 times more than us, meaner, better armed and better fighters... but we unbelievibly got a major victory that saw them all dead...) ? Me not.
"

Laughable.

That is exactly what SE gives us. Kalam :Erm:

Kalam isn't like that at all...in House of Chains he clearly loses battles and only came out alive because Dancer dropped in and saved him.

[Smiles]

Clawmaster said:

I fail to see the significance of your first statement. Kalam or Apsalar - laughable either way.

But I disliked tBH overall so.....

As mentioned it is pretty significant that Apsalar is an Ascendant, Pearl took one look at what she was doing and thought Cotillion had come for him... you can't fail to have noticed that she was immune to disease in Seven Cities, fought off the Hounds of Shadow when they came for Quick Ben, all the large groups of dead Claw in Malaz killed in the same manner etc., all in tBH.

[Morgoth]

*shrugs* Erikson is not everyone's cup of tea. I fail to see how you can find it laughable though. In Eriksons setting - which I wish to remind you is a fantasy setting - extreme powerlevels are very well fitted into the world as a whole.

But trying to find Martin in Erikson and vice versa is not plausible and as it seems that is what you wanted: yeah, reading martin seems to be the best choice for you.

[Smiles]

Clawmaster said:

I guess I haven't made myself clear.

I find the whole notion of Ascendants and their powers laughable. One reason why GotM and especially DG appealed to me more than the the following books were that the Gods and Ascendants played a less central part, or maybe just played their parts in a less direct and more subtle way.

I'll just go back to reading Martin.

Fair enough

Personally one of things I like about SE is his interaction between gods, mortals and ascendants. But why laughable? They make great characters and are part of how that world works, with the next step being godhood.

I also like Martin, but appreciate the difference between the forms of writing, with his books being grounded in mortals.

[Svaran]

Clawmaster said:

I guess I haven't made myself clear.

I find the whole notion of Ascendants and their powers laughable. One reason why GotM and especially DG appealed to me more than the the following books were that the Gods and Ascendants played a less central part, or maybe just played their parts in a less direct and more subtle way.

I'll just go back to reading Martin.

I found J R R martin pretty dull, mind you way better than Jordon which still isn't really saying much, unless you like watching paint dry.

[bwgan]

Never read Martin and the only Jordan thing I read left me cold...:eek3:

I am so in awe of the MBOTF that criticising it seems ...well heretical :eek: Sure I get confused, but being a mortal that's to be expected (I'm not a wimp by the way, I've read lots of big books...no not the telephone directory type big, I mean like War & Peace, Crime & Punishment type big). I like the complexity

BUT if pushed...now please don't lynch me (there is no more dedicated reader than me) but if I really, really had to nit pick...is it just me or are there shades of Vimes, Colon and Nobby in Whiskeyjack, Ansty and Spindle :eek: :eek: OK, Ok I'll slink off to my dark and damp corner and hang my head in shame...(better not mention the Paran/Carrot thing either then...)

PS: I don't mean it really