[jonny_anonymous]

I know there is already a bunch of Grey Swords/Helms threads on here but I haven't seen any mention this particular query. So I was wondering do the Grey Swords originally come from Perish? To start with I thought that religious Military Orders in the world of Wu just had similar or the same set up (like Templars and Teutonics) but then I noticed the names of members from each order:

Grey Swords
Brukhalian
Itkovian
Karnadas
Farakalian
Nakalian
Nilbanas

These are all Perish sounding names just like the Grey Helms:

Grey Helms:
Krughava
Tanakalian
Run'Thurvian
Erekala

That got me thinking. I know Itkovian said that he was born in the city of Erin but was it ever actually stated where that was? Also they said the Grey Swords were based in Elingarth which is in south Genabackis but another interesting fact is that Peleshar Arkoveneth said she was from southern Genabackis but was actually originally from Perish.

So this leads me to a few theories:

1. The Grey Swords are originally from Perish and traveled over to Genabackis to fight.
or
2. People from Perish migrated to parts of southern Genabackis and colonised places like Elingarth.
or
3. It's all one big coincidence.

[D'rek]

It is #2. I forget when precisely, but Elingarth is explicitly said to be a Perish colony. The naming traditions and Perish ethnicity would carry over to Elingarth, then (albeit mixed with southern Genebackis traditions and features over time). As for the mercenary companies, it seems that this is a traditional Perish thing, too, and there are many Perish or Elingarthii mercenary companies named "The [Colour] [Soldiery Item]s" who pledge themselves to one war god or another and use the ancient titles of Mortal Sword, Destriant and Shield Anvil for their top 3 ranks within the company (whether or not the people at those ranks are truly the/a chosen MS/D/SA of that god or not).

[Spoilsport Stonny]

I believe it's widely accepted, but never explicitly stated, that the Ellingarth Grey Swords are a military organization who refer to themselves as mercenaries that share a history with the Perish. If you have a problem... if no one else can help... and if you can find them... maybe you can hire... The Grey Swords.

[tiam]

D, on 12 August 2014 - 01:48 PM, said:

It is #2. I forget when precisely, but Elingarth is explicitly said to be a Perish colony. The naming traditions and Perish ethnicity would carry over to Elingarth, then (albeit mixed with southern Genebackis traditions and features over time). As for the mercenary companies, it seems that this is a traditional Perish thing, too, and there are many Perish or Elingarthii mercenary companies named "The [Colour] [Soldiery Item]s" who pledge themselves to one war god or another and use the ancient titles of Mortal Sword, Destriant and Shield Anvil for their top 3 ranks within the company (whether or not the people at those ranks are truly the/a chosen MS/D/SA of that god or not).

When does it say Elingarth is a Perish colony? It would make sense but I dont remember this at all

[Gorefest]

I don't believe it is stated explicitly anywhere. You can only connect the dots, with Elingarth (I believe) being across the sea from Perish, and the Grey Swords hailing from there (although I don't even think it is ever made clear whether the Grey Swords are actually permanent residents there, or simply hired hands to protect the city for a proloned period of time, i.e. several generations even).

This post has been edited by Gorefest: 13 August 2014 - 11:04 AM

[D'rek]

I thought it was pretty explicitly stated... in OST, maybe? I'll see if I can do some digging and find it.

[Gorefest]

D, on 13 August 2014 - 02:33 PM, said:

I thought it was pretty explicitly stated... in OST, maybe? I'll see if I can do some digging and find it.

Don't think so. All it says pointblank in the various novels is that the Grey Swords are from Elingarth and the Grey Helms from Perish. The connection that Elingarth is a Perish colony does seem to logically flow from these facts and their geographical location (I believe Elingarth is across the sea from Perish?), but as far as I can remember it is not stated anywhere in the books themselves, taking that as cannon. So it could also be that the Grey Swords came to Elingarth several generations ago as mercenaries to defend the city, and basically started recruiting from the local area and settled there 'permanently'. Or even that they have no racial links to the Perish at all, but the Elingarth locals heard about the mercenary structures from travellers from across the sea and adopted those for their own garrison. I don't know if there are any other sources outside of the SE and ICE novels, for instance interviews, where it was remarked, but I'm pretty sure it is not stated anywhere in the books as a hard fact that Elingarth is a Perish colony.

This post has been edited by Gorefest: 14 August 2014 - 01:10 PM

[jonny_anonymous]

Gorefest, on 14 August 2014 - 01:06 PM, said:

D, on 13 August 2014 - 02:33 PM, said:

I thought it was pretty explicitly stated... in OST, maybe? I'll see if I can do some digging and find it.

Don't think so. All it says pointblank in the various novels is that the Grey Swords are from Elingarth and the Grey Helms from Perish. The connection that Elingarth is a Perish colony does seem to logically flow from these facts and their geographical location (I believe Elingarth is across the sea from Perish?), but as far as I can remember it is not stated anywhere in the books themselves, taking that as cannon. So it could also be that the Grey Swords came to Elingarth several generations ago as mercenaries to defend the city, and basically started recruiting from the local area and settled there 'permanently'. Or even that they have no racial links to the Perish at all, but the Elingarth locals heard about the mercenary structures from travellers from across the sea and adopted those for their own garrison. I don't know if there are any other sources outside of the SE and ICE novels, for instance interviews, where it was remarked, but I'm pretty sure it is not stated anywhere in the books as a hard fact that Elingarth is a Perish colony.

There must be at least some racial links between Elingarth and Perish since all of the Grey Swords have Perish names.

[Gorefest]

Names are not genetic, could simply be cultural amalgamation. But yeah, there are clearly some sort of links between Perish and Elingarth. And a colony would make sense.

[jonny_anonymous]

Gorefest, on 18 August 2014 - 03:21 PM, said:

Names are not genetic, could simply be cultural amalgamation. But yeah, there are clearly some sort of links between Perish and Elingarth. And a colony would make sense.

Ah yes, I should have said cultural connection maybe?

[Gorefest]

Well, I know what you mean and I do completely agree that stylistic similarity does strongly imply correllation. Still don't think it was ever written or said outright, though.

This post has been edited by Gorefest: 22 August 2014 - 08:50 PM

[Drusas Achamian]

These kind names are probably used by all worshippers of Togg and Fanderay, all over Wu.

Like worshippers of Allah are called Mohammed, Ali, Achmed and so on, from Morocco to Indonesia.


Allright, as far as we know, Perish is a Togg and Fanderay-theocracy, so it could be the place of origin of this kind of names (like the Islam - Arabian penninsula-connection),
but it could also originated from any other part of Wu.

This post has been edited by Drusas Achamian: 28 August 2014 - 01:17 PM

[jonny_anonymous]

Drusas Achamian, on 28 August 2014 - 01:15 PM, said:

These kind names are probably used by all worshippers of Togg and Fanderay, all over Wu.

Like worshippers of Allah are called Mohammed, Ali, Achmed and so on, from Morocco to Indonesia.


Allright, as far as we know, Perish is a Togg and Fanderay-theocracy, so it could be the place of origin of this kind of names (like the Islam - Arabian penninsula-connection),
but it could also originated from any other part of Wu.

The Grey Swords were worshippers of Fener though