[Andorion]

This idea came to me while posting in the SW forum. Throughout the series, each and every book has had one huge, overwhelming, holy-shit-did-I-just-read-that convergence at the end. now, my point is that :


1. We generally read and think about these convergences in the context of the book and the series, giving importance to converging, diverging or parallel plotlines, and narrative awsomeness. basically we care if the convergence provided a fitting end to the book, addressed previous issues and was suitably 'epic' or not.

2. But, I think it would be a rather entertaining and interesting task to think about convergences in the really long term, in the context of the impact they have on the Malazan world, and by the world I mean not just the portion we see in the book but the world in its full history.

3. By long-term impact I was thinking of two main parameters: scope/extent and depth. By scope I mean the range of people, places, institutions, cultures affected by the convergences and by depth I mean to what degree did this impact penetrate.

A funny thing I noticed was that some convergenceshad practically no impact on the world, or that impat was so subtle, it is not perceptibel to the inhabitants. For example, in GotM, the convergece - which is the awakening of Raest, the battle with Silanah and the Eleint Soletaken Andii, the climax in Darujhistan with the creation of a new Azath house, the convergence had very little impact on Darujhistan's inhabitants. To them it was the night Moon,s Spawn came down low. The defeat of the Tyrant, the actions of Rake, the Bridgeburners, all of this happened, and the consequences of this amnifest in the series multiple times, but to Darujhistan and its people, its a bunch of foggy events, already half-covered in fancy and myth. But the long-term is interesting, as an Azath has taken root and the results are open to speculation.

So I was wondering whether we could discuss the various convergences from this angle. I have already expressed my ideas reagarding the SW convergence in the SW forum in Abyss' thread.

Hope I have been able to put it clearly. Looking forward to some input.

[ultor]

[Spoilsport Stonny]

ultor, on 15 July 2014 - 09:44 AM, said:

Well said.

[Spoilsport Stonny]

Andorion, on 14 July 2014 - 12:53 PM, said:

This idea came to me while posting in the SW forum. Throughout the series, each and every book has had one huge, overwhelming, holy-shit-did-I-just-read-that convergence at the end. now, my point is that :


1. We generally read and think about these convergences in the context of the book and the series, giving importance to converging, diverging or parallel plotlines, and narrative awsomeness. basically we care if the convergence provided a fitting end to the book, addressed previous issues and was suitably 'epic' or not.

Arguably, yes, but its all relative to the reader really.

Andorion, on 14 July 2014 - 12:53 PM, said:

2. But, I think it would be a rather entertaining and interesting task to think about convergences in the really long term, in the context of the impact they have on the Malazan world, and by the world I mean not just the portion we see in the book but the world in its full history.

Are you some kind of sadist?

Andorion, on 14 July 2014 - 12:53 PM, said:

3. By long-term impact I was thinking of two main parameters: scope/extent and depth. By scope I mean the range of people, places, institutions, cultures affected by the convergences and by depth I mean to what degree did this impact penetrate.

"Penetrate"? You are a sadist.

Andorion, on 14 July 2014 - 12:53 PM, said:

A funny thing I noticed was that some convergences had practically no impact on the world, or that impact was so subtle, it is not perceptible to the inhabitants. For example, in GotM, the convergence - which is the awakening of Raest, the battle with Silanah and the Eleint Soletaken Andii, the climax in Darujhistan with the creation of a new Azath house, the convergence had very little impact on Darujhistan's inhabitants. To them it was the night Moon,s Spawn came down low. The defeat of the Tyrant, the actions of Rake, the Bridgeburners, all of this happened, and the consequences of this amnifest in the series multiple times, but to Darujhistan and its people, its a bunch of foggy events, already half-covered in fancy and myth. But the long-term is interesting, as an Azath has taken root and the results are open to speculation.

The battle with Raest took place well enough outside of Darujhistan that only those with a magical sensitivity were able to perceive that something was afoot. The dragons and Kruppe had nearly defeated him before he jumped into Mammot. Once at the garden fete, the fight was pretty much contained to the Simtal estate, and was over quick enough to be forgotten or unnoticed by your average Daru resident. Think, even in this day and age of technology and industry, how many loud noises may happen where you just go "What was that?!" and then promptly forget about it? We are like ants, we are. Scurrying to finish our tasks, unheeding that which does not directly affect us. Perhaps this was an intentional allegory, perhaps not.

Andorion, on 14 July 2014 - 12:53 PM, said:

So I was wondering whether we could discuss the various convergences from this angle. I have already expressed my ideas reagarding the SW convergence in the SW forum in Abyss' thread.

Hope I have been able to put it clearly. Looking forward to some input.

I would say that the SW convergence was likely the most impactful to a large group of people and a landmass. it seems like the Assail chapter that was put out somewhat alluded to the effects of that convergence. what is interesting is that there wasn't much interference from any gods, outside of the Lady. Burn, via Graymane, perhaps. And maybe T'riss through the Stormriders, as confusingly shown to us through her ex-Seguleh partner on the ship they took to Jakaruku. But overall it was just some really amped up Ascendents and regular people with magic weapons and magic skills.

Of course TCG convergence was huge and the impact is probably more seen in what didn't happen. i.e. the world being destroyed. MoI had a brutal convergence for sure, with the unveiling of KG and the death of so many Bridgeburners, Itkovian, Toc. But other than Black coral there wasn't much of an affect to the rank and file Genebakan.

I like where you're coming from with this though. Interesting to ponder, but for most of the convergences we get to see the effects in subsequent books. So no need for much speculation.

[Andorion]

Actually I think speculation may be very necessary. Look at the RG convergence for example. There is a chance, flimsy, but a real chance that Tehol as king of Lether might change the exploitative system of the country. Whether he can or will is upto speculation.

And yeah i guess I am a bit of a sadist

[Spoilsport Stonny]

I would never suggest not speculating, but I would also not never not to suggest not to.

[Andorion]

I was just thinking of the MT convergence. The Edur kick Letherii ass and an insane emperor takes the throne. Edur and Letherii hunting parties spread out across the world. The consequences to this are hinted at, but can potentially be huge. Think of the tribe in 7 cities who were being hunted almost to extinction. They were lucky enough to have Karsa there (if having Karsa around can be called lucky instead of terrifying) but what about other primitive tribes like that? the world of Malazan is huge. There are probably thousands of scattered tribes, villages, in islands, remote coasts. How many got killed? how many were dragged of to Lether to be killed? If the conditon of the tribes were delicate enough these events probably triggered their ultimate extinction.

Then theres the MT convergence in context of the main storyline. Just think. Edur and Letherii hunters=attacks on Drift Avalu wher Andarist kept the children of Rake guarded for years. Andarist die. Dassem gets Grief. Here I am speculating a bit, but what with hints in FOD, there will be a Rake Andarist break and Grief will be significant. Hell there has already been a Rake Anddarist break in the end of FOD. Anyway, Dassem meets Rake. They fight. Now here I am not disputing Dassem's superiority as a swordsman, but consider, he was fighting Dragnipur. i contend that if had an ordinary sword, Dragnipur would have shattered it. But he had Grief. Rake dies. Makes 40% of the TCG joint convergence possible.

Twisted reasoning, long speculation......but there you go

[Spoilsport Stonny]

Well, yeah, that stuff happening as a result of some other stuff can be attributed to great writing. I can also speculate that if Kellenved got the flu when he was a kid and died that there would be no Empire.

Don't get me wrong, I understand completely your intentions. It's just that - to me - speculating on the possibilities in fiction isn't as cathartic or intriguing as it is with actual history.

[D'rek]

The Letheri political changeover leading to the worldwide Edur fleets is definitely one change that is very large in scope.

Another could arguably be the MoI convergence destroying the Pannion Domin and stopping its expansion, as everywhere the Pannio armies reached the crippled god's poisoning of Burn spread and made the warrens troublesome to access, which is a pretty extensive effect that would definitely have major worldwide consequences if it kept spreading.