Malazan Empire: Brainzzz! Brainzzz! I know. . . ;-) - Malazan Empire

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Brainzzz! Brainzzz! I know. . . ;-)

#41 User is offline   worry 

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Posted 16 July 2014 - 06:46 PM

Now I'm really excited.
They came with white hands and left with red hands.
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#42 User is offline   Abyss 

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Posted 16 July 2014 - 07:16 PM

View Postupworthywort, on 16 July 2014 - 06:46 PM, said:

Now I'm really excited.


Worrywort just inverted the omen.
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#43 User is offline   worry 

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Posted 16 July 2014 - 07:18 PM

I have 999 on my forehead.
They came with white hands and left with red hands.
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#44 User is offline   nacht 

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Posted 16 July 2014 - 07:56 PM

View PostEnd of Disc One, on 16 July 2014 - 11:31 AM, said:

View Postchamp, on 16 July 2014 - 09:39 AM, said:

View Postpat5150, on 16 July 2014 - 02:01 AM, said:

A little over 100 pages left and Christ it's gotten so much worse. . . The proverbial shit hasn't hit the fan yet, but even a mindfuck of a convergence cannot save this one, methinks. . . :(



Probably why you cannot release a review before publication date...


lol I'm surprised they still send him books


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Next time you want a review, send it to me.
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#45 User is offline   pat5150 

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Posted 16 July 2014 - 08:20 PM

Only about 60 pages to go and the endgame hasn't fully started yet. . .

By this point in TCG, my mind had been blown a few times and I was foaming at the mouth. With Assail, I'm not even disapointed that I have to stop reading and leave, and that I won't find out what is going to happen until tomorrow. :(

Looks like it's going to be a grand finale. But I'm thinking it will be a case of "too little, too late" and that it can't possibly save this one. How could this book start so well and go down the crapper so fast???

Patrick
For book reviews, author interviews, giveaways, related articles and news, and much more, check out www.fantasyhotlist.blogspot.com
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#46 User is offline   Abalieno 

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Posted 17 July 2014 - 03:15 AM

But come on. I'm starting to think that you're playing with us.

Grand finale in 60 pages? Not even Gardens of the Moon super mad (rushed) end was just 60 pages.

BANG. BANG! WORLD EXPLODES. End.

The most hilarious thing now is if Assail ends on a cliffhanger. It counts as "mindfuck".
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#47 User is offline   pat5150 

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Posted 17 July 2014 - 04:03 AM

Sadly, I'm not playing with you guys. For the most part, much like Blood and Bone, Assail has little to offer. There is a lot of extraneous crap, a number of Salvatoresque fight sequences, some shitty dialog, and not a whole lot of storytelling of the good kind.

If this one reaches a climax, it will have to be quick. There are not enough pages left to come up with a finale that can do justice to the Malazan saga.

Wonder what happened to the ICE who wrote Stonewielder???

Patrick
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#48 User is offline   Raker 

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Posted 17 July 2014 - 08:57 AM

View Postpat5150, on 17 July 2014 - 04:03 AM, said:

Sadly, I'm not playing with you guys. For the most part, much like Blood and Bone, Assail has little to offer. There is a lot of extraneous crap, a number of Salvatoresque fight sequences, some shitty dialog, and not a whole lot of storytelling of the good kind.

If this one reaches a climax, it will have to be quick. There are not enough pages left to come up with a finale that can do justice to the Malazan saga.

Wonder what happened to the ICE who wrote Stonewielder???

Patrick


I do not believe you. It cannot happen again.:(
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#49 User is offline   Abyss 

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Posted 17 July 2014 - 01:17 PM

View Postpat5150, on 17 July 2014 - 04:03 AM, said:

...much like Blood and Bone, Assail has little to offer....


I really enjoyed B&B, thus this doesn't trouble me all that much.
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#50 User is offline   Kanubis 

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Posted 17 July 2014 - 02:08 PM

View PostAbyss, on 17 July 2014 - 01:17 PM, said:

View Postpat5150, on 17 July 2014 - 04:03 AM, said:

...much like Blood and Bone, Assail has little to offer....


I really enjoyed B&B, thus this doesn't trouble me all that much.


I agree, with the proviso that if pat is correct about Assail offering little sense of danger, I will be disappointed with that.
Captain of Team Quick Ben. Also teaboy.

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#51 User is offline   Seiko 

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Posted 17 July 2014 - 02:26 PM

I also liked B&B, a lot more than a couple of his other works. Though one aspect I loathed was the Crimson Guard (Shimmer. Ka'zz' cryptic, leisurely journey) which I figured wouldn't be an issue in Assail, but it sounds like it suffers from the same problem.
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#52 User is offline   D'rek 

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Posted 17 July 2014 - 04:40 PM

View PostAbyss, on 17 July 2014 - 01:17 PM, said:

View Postpat5150, on 17 July 2014 - 04:03 AM, said:

...much like Blood and Bone, Assail has little to offer....


I really enjoyed B&B, thus this doesn't trouble me all that much.


I was... okay... with B&B. I liked a lot of it but still felt it lacked a meaningful convergence or tied things together very well (what was actually going on with Saeng and Osseric's convergence was poorly explained so it hardly seemed Saeng even needed to be there, while K'azz, the Disavowed and Sour/Murk's participation at their "convergence" was mainly just standing there watching).

OST was better but still had some of the same problems. SW was even better than that, with only really Ivanr's storyline being a random barely-related side story (well, and the hunt for Tayschrenn we knew would carry on to later books).

RotCG really pulled it all together very well though, with even the most seemingly-unrelated storylines like Kyle, Ho or the Wickans coming to the final convergence in ways that made plenty of sense and were awesome. Only Ghelel skipped out, and her PoV was only there to show Amaron's side of the rebel forces and invert the orphan-turned-king trope, anyways.

Now, don't get me wrong, I liked Yusek in OST and I liked Sour & Murk in B&B. I can absolutely enjoy an ICE storyline featuring new characters he's invented going on their own little journey without it being some major contributor to a huge combined plot and/or convergence. BUT, as others have noted, this book was hyped and touted as both a book providing a grandiose 'epilogue' to the whole malazan main sequence as well as revealing the mysteries of why Assail is such a crazy and dangerous place. ICE has already demonstrated in RotCG that he can write an exciting and meaningful 300-page finale with everything but the kitchen sink thrown in. If he has chosen to write as his big hyped up 'epilogue' about Assail a bunch more obtuse travelogues that are loosely tied together in the last 40 pages, it could still be good and something I would want to read taken only on its own. But within the context of the teasing about Assail we've been given and the hyping of this book as a meaningful 'epilogue' to the main sequence that will be disappointing to me.

View Postworrywort, on 14 September 2012 - 08:07 PM, said:

I kinda love it when D'rek unleashes her nerd wrath, as I knew she would here. Sorry innocent bystanders, but someone's gotta be the kindling.
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#53 User is offline   D'rek 

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Posted 17 July 2014 - 04:43 PM

On that note, then, Pat I have a question though it might not be answerable until you finish:

Is there really anything in Assail that means you really *have* to read it after TCG? From Chapter 1 it doesn't seem like this sudden gold rush rumour in Assail is tied to the events of TCG (nor does anyone remark on a sudden appearance of thousands of dragons or anything like that). If I'm getting someone into the Malazan series, and they are absolutely adamant about reading ALL of the SE and ICE books, can I tell them then to read Assail before DoD and TCG? (OST and B&B work fine before TCG, so no problems there)

View Postworrywort, on 14 September 2012 - 08:07 PM, said:

I kinda love it when D'rek unleashes her nerd wrath, as I knew she would here. Sorry innocent bystanders, but someone's gotta be the kindling.
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#54 User is offline   pat5150 

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Posted 17 July 2014 - 04:48 PM

Just finished the book. . .

It was a good ending. Not great, but good. In no way a fitting end to the Malazan saga, however. Truth to tell, it wasn't even an ending. Hence, without the epilogue book(s), it makes very little sense for the saga to end this way.

No convergence, no mindfuck, no shit hitting the fan. Decidedly anticlimactic, but it does tie up all the ICE books. Offers very little in terms of revelations regarding Assail and its secrets. No information whatsoever about those human rulers standing up against and destroying thousands of T'lan Imass. Those expecting major revelations about the Jaghut and the Forkrul Assail will be quite disappointed.

So does the ending save the entire book. Not by a long shot. As was the case with its two predecessors, it is now evident that ICE doesn't have what it takes as an author to truly do justice to the storylines that were his. Now that his arcs are done, it is obvious that, unlike SE, his skills were not necessarily up to the task. Which is a shame, as he had some awesome plotlines to work with.

In the end, Assail is not a total loss. But I figure that the publisher is well aware that this "final" Malazan chapter fails to live up to fans' expectations and that is why they don't want advance reviews to sort of kill any buzz the novel has going on. Assail is 80% filler material, bloating up the book between the scenes that actually matters.

Kudos to ICE for providing one hell of a surprise at the very end! :( But for the most part, Assail can be nothing but another major disappointment. . .

Full review coming in early August...

Patrick
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#55 User is offline   End of Disc One 

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Posted 17 July 2014 - 06:14 PM

Quote

publisher is well aware that this "final" Malazan chapter fails to live up to fans' expectations and that is why they don't want advance reviews to sort of kill any buzz the novel has going on.


...
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#56 User is offline   champ 

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Posted 17 July 2014 - 06:16 PM

View Postpat5150, on 17 July 2014 - 04:48 PM, said:

Offers very little in terms of revelations regarding Assail and its secrets. No information whatsoever about those human rulers standing up against and destroying thousands of T'lan Imass. Those expecting major revelations about the Jaghut and the Forkrul Assail will be quite disappointed.


Not disappointed... devasted!

Tehol said:

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#57 User is offline   Aptorian 

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Posted 17 July 2014 - 07:09 PM

View Postchamp, on 17 July 2014 - 06:16 PM, said:

View Postpat5150, on 17 July 2014 - 04:48 PM, said:

Offers very little in terms of revelations regarding Assail and its secrets. No information whatsoever about those human rulers standing up against and destroying thousands of T'lan Imass. Those expecting major revelations about the Jaghut and the Forkrul Assail will be quite disappointed.


Not disappointed... devasted!


Not devastated. Not surprised.

All the way through from Return of the Crimson Guard, Esslemont has failed to pull off "a great adventure". Usually in a traditional book there is a beginning, a middle and an end. For me, every one of the books have had promising beginnings that drew you in with the promises of stunning revelations and glorious battles, and all the book have had so so middle parts and build up, only to completely drop the ball at the end because the book didn't know where it is going.

I expect nothing less from Assail. I will of course still buy it on day one, because I want any information I can get to the Malazan lore puzzle and because I seek some kind of closure to this 5 book travesty, but I am guessing this is the end for me.

I suspect that Esslemont will continue to write Malazan books, because the fans will buy anything, but unless something changes, unless Esslemont gets some better draft readers or a more healthy publishing schedule, I think these books do more harm than good, really.
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#58 User is offline   worry 

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Posted 17 July 2014 - 07:44 PM

My feelings are as follows:

They came with white hands and left with red hands.
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#59 User is offline   Aptorian 

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Posted 17 July 2014 - 07:51 PM

Posted Image

This post has been edited by Apt Hoc: 17 July 2014 - 07:55 PM

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#60 User is offline   champ 

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Posted 17 July 2014 - 07:56 PM

View PostApt Hoc, on 17 July 2014 - 07:09 PM, said:

View Postchamp, on 17 July 2014 - 06:16 PM, said:

View Postpat5150, on 17 July 2014 - 04:48 PM, said:

Offers very little in terms of revelations regarding Assail and its secrets. No information whatsoever about those human rulers standing up against and destroying thousands of T'lan Imass. Those expecting major revelations about the Jaghut and the Forkrul Assail will be quite disappointed.


Not disappointed... devasted!


Not devastated. Not surprised.


Actually, true that, I should have known better...


View PostApt Hoc, on 17 July 2014 - 07:09 PM, said:

All the way through from Return of the Crimson Guard, Esslemont has failed to pull off "a great adventure". Usually in a traditional book there is a beginning, a middle and an end. For me, every one of the books have had promising beginnings that drew you in with the promises of stunning revelations and glorious battles, and all the book have had so so middle parts and build up, only to completely drop the ball at the end because the book didn't know where it is going.



That's that killer, I loved NoK and RotCG, they hooked me to ICE and I actually felt like they truely added to the books by SE, doing the series in a whole, justice!

I felt they not only added to the lore of the world and the characters but they were fun reads, for me though, it kind of went downhill after that...

I know people on this board think SW was his best book and in many parts I guess it was - Manask is still one of my all time favourite Malazan characters - but for me, I can remember thinking at the time that a lot of it wasn't interesting me and I wasn't getting the enjoyment I usually get with a Malazan read. Hoped the ending would pull it out of the bag but at the time I was disappointed with it, felt rushed and I came away feeling where is the remaining 100 pages?!?! Same with OST, afterwards a dejected feeling...

Haven't got around to B&B, I will probably get around to it, if I had heard good things here I would have rushed to it but aye, that hasn't gone to plan!


View PostApt Hoc, on 17 July 2014 - 07:09 PM, said:

I suspect that Esslemont will continue to write Malazan books, because the fans will buy anything, but unless something changes, unless Esslemont gets some better draft readers or a more healthy publishing schedule, I think these books do more harm than good, really.



That's the killer, with him due to write the novellas with Dancer and Kellanved, I just hope something changes fast! Fingers crossed though, I will probably still end up buying them... probably just not in hardback.

Tehol said:

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