[Imperial Historian]

Abyss, on 09 June 2014 - 04:59 PM, said:

Rome... get in, see the Vatican (book in advance for the Love of God (pun intended) book in advance!!!), see the Fountain and the Spanish Steps at night and gtfo.

I've never met anyone before who didn't think Rome was worth 2 or 3 days at least, I mean St peters, the Vatican museum, the coliseum, the forum, the Capitoline hill, the Parthenon, the Appian way, the trevi fountain and the Spanish steps alone are musts in my opinion. Then there are lesser but still cool things like the other museums, a few other Roman ruins, the catacombs and there are plenty of other churches which anywhere else would be major attractions in there own right. If you like art rome must have the highest concentration of old masters in the world, every little church seems to have at least one major work of art in there somewhere. Whilst the food around the major tourist attractions is overpriced you can easily get good cheap food by venturing away from them. Personally I find wandering around Rome and popping into any interesting building you see highly rewarding, you'll usually find something to blow you away.

@messremb good to hear Stonehenge is being refurbished, I'll have to check it out again sometime. I'd say June in Italy starts to edge into the uncomfortable in Florence for one, but is a perfect time for your other locations.

[Tiste Simeon]

Imperial Historian, on 09 June 2014 - 04:25 PM, said:

I maintain Manchester is better to visit than Liverpool, plus its full of malazans!

Listen to this man he is full of wisdom!

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Having lived in both York and Bath, I'd say bath is nicer,

DON'T LISTEN TO THIS HEATHEN HE LIES!

[Imperial Historian]

Lol as much as I like York, I think Bath is marginally nicer for the tourist. I'd rather live in York, but I maintain bath is the better tourist destination. Of course they really need to go to both!

[Gothos]

I notice an intense lack of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth in your list. Boo.

[Tiste Simeon]

Imperial Historian, on 10 June 2014 - 11:37 AM, said:

Lol as much as I like York, I think Bath is marginally nicer for the tourist. I'd rather live in York, but I maintain bath is the better tourist destination. Of course they really need to go to both!

Haha I kind of see your point but the on the other side York, just by virtue of being in the North of the country, is a whole buttload cheaper than Bath! Thought of course, it might be possible to do both:
London
Bath
Manchester (probably via Bristol if you're going on the train)
York
Edinburgh (York to Edinburgh train is very quick, and the same line is a direct line back to London, so you'd be sorted for getting back there before heading to Europe...)

I think that route would give some of the better points of England as well as give you a chance to meet with a bunch of Malazites on the way.

[Imperial Historian]

York is definitely cheaper than Bath it has to be said.

I think Cambridge has to be on the itinerary (though it can be pretty awkward to get to via train) its a pretty uniquely English kind of place, and also has bill and hazel present as resident malazan guides.

If you go to York I'd suggest the Yorkshire moors are worth visiting, and fish and chips in Whitby is pretty much a must. Southerners peddle this nonsense about fish and chips being better on the south coast, when we all know a fish and chip shop pretty much has to be north of Birmingham before they even begin to get good

[Abyss]

Imperial Historian, on 10 June 2014 - 12:50 AM, said:

Abyss, on 09 June 2014 - 04:59 PM, said:

Rome... get in, see the Vatican (book in advance for the Love of God (pun intended) book in advance!!!), see the Fountain and the Spanish Steps at night and gtfo.

I've never met anyone before who didn't think Rome was worth 2 or 3 days at least,...
...

This is pretty subjective of course, but having been to Rome twice, other than the Vatican ( a day - Museum and St Peters) and the ruins (1/2 day), I found the city had nothing to offer (museums, food, scene, churches, bars) that wasn't better in Florence or elsewhere.

[Hetan]

Sounds like an awesome trip, you guys.
Happy to help out if you need bed and board for a few days - London is easily accessible by rail from Cambridge too - popping down there and back for a days sight seeing is easy and not too expensive if you avoid peak times and get a railcard thingy.
I agree with the majority though - later would be better in terms of weather. May is one of my favourite times of year for sight seeing.

[Shiara]

UK - loads of brilliant suggestions! While it would be fantastic to make detours so we can meet everyone, the bulk of our trip will be spent in Europe with a maximum of maybe two weeks in the UK. That said, we're absolutely keen to attend a meetup, in Manchester or elsewhere

Thanks to all of your input, we've put together the following: after the obligatory grand entrance in London and a visit to Cambridge, we're considering hiring a car and road tripping along this route: https://goo.gl/maps/A0qDm

We're then planning to fly out of Edinburgh and into Munich to commence our Continental Adventure^TM via Eurail. Point to point we'll be stopping in:

• Munich
  
• Prague
  
• Vienna
  
• Venice
  
• Montagna (where I got my Italian nose)
  
• Milan
  
• Rome

We want to visit the Dalmatian Coast as well (where Luci got his Serbian nose), but have yet to figure out how to get there from Venice (or Rome?).

For the Europe leg we'll probably head to each city and partake of the local culture rather than gallivant about the countryside (which is of course an equally valid method of travel!). Again, it's going to depend on what we'll have time for, but any suggestions for sightseeing in the cities above would be most welcome

We'll look at an Apr-May timeframe as an alternative, though it may come down to how much the flights end up costing!

Thanks again for all your help!!

This post has been edited by Shiara: 15 June 2014 - 01:15 PM

[Mezla PigDog]

You might be able to get a direct or indirect ferry from Venice to Split, maybe an overnighter. I only know this from vague memories of looking at ferry timetables when I was in Split a few years ago so it might not be possible. You can probably fly Rome to Split but low cost airlines mostly run in peak season which I guess is May - September.

I've been to Rome and Munich so my pennies worth is as follows:

Rome is easy (I disagree with Abyss so long as you accept it is very touristy so the usual caveats apply of 1, Get hardened against beggars and people selling crap on the streets; 2, If you eat next to a big tourist attraction then expect overpriced and substandard food (this also applies in London, big time) and; 3, Get to the big sites early or late to avoid crowds or buy queue jumping tickets in advance) - it is all good. The Colosseum, Forum, Pantheon and Capitol museums are brilliant. The Vatican Museums are mind boggling irrespective of your feelings on the Catholic church. Otherwise I liked just pottering around there, eating ice cream and soaking it up - I went in February and it was absolutely freezing on a couple of the days so we had lots of cafe stops for the most amazing hot chocolate ever. It was just lovely.

Munich is a bit more difficult as I didn't like it that much. Not that it wasn't a good trip - we drank a boat load of beer and ate a lot of pig and it was nice to just hang out and experience Bavarian culture but the tourist sites were a bit crap. Go to a Beer Hall because that's the whole point of going to Munich. Skip the Residenz museum, it's just not that good. That is possibly because it got flattened in WWII so whenever you look at something in a museum or an old building it says "This is a replica as the original got blown up in 1944". Saying that, the Munich City museum was good - it maps the history of the city and there is an illuminating exhibition on how/why the Nazi party had its origins in Munich. It is mostly in German but you can easily get the picture as they have the kits they used to class if people were Aryan and some stuff from Hitlers offices and what have you. The Rathaus Glockenspiel is fun to see for about 5 minutes and you can get to Dachau concentration camp quite easily if you are that way inclined (I wasn't). We got bored of Munich after 2 days and went to Salzburg on the train instead so unless you are more imaginative than me, I recommend a short stay there

If you can adjust your itinerary to pass through Florence it is well worth it! I've also been told by friends that while Venice is nice it is probably better to stay outside the city and go in for visits. No idea if that is true or not.

With regards to your driving route around the UK - it looks good but avoid the M25 around peak times (7am - 9am and 4pm - 7pm) or waste hours of your trip in traffic. The same applies for motorways around any of the major cities at peak times. Otherwise you will be grand. You will be going past my town (Hitchin) when you are driving down the A1M, I recommend St Albans as a stop off point on that leg of the journey or - and this is tenuous - if you happen to be particular fans of the Nick Frost & Simon Pegg movie "The Worlds End" you can stop in Letchworth Garden City and Welwyn Garden City and see some of the movie locations You could also stop off in Bristol since you will be going by - it's tourist attractions are the first steam powered ship to cross the Atlantic, built by Brunel, the Clifton Suspension bridge and the city harbour area. I have lived in St Albans, Bath, Bristol and Manchester so send me a PM if you happen to need any specific local knowledge.

And let me know dates for London/Cambridge when you have them

This post has been edited by Mezla PigDog: 15 June 2014 - 04:12 PM

[Imperial Historian]

Like mezla I wasn't hugely impressed by Munich touristy things, though the food and Bavarian culture is pretty fun, people actually wear lederhosen! the english garden is quite nice, the nymphenberg palace can give you an idea of the opulence of some of the european nobilities residences (though the Hapsburg residences in Vienna are much more impressive), though most of the actual palace is closed off. Fussen about 2 hours away has the pretty cool fairytale castles of Ludwig II, they aren't practical but worth a look. Be aware it's very touristy, but the town of fussen is quite nice and make sure you go to both castles. Neuschwanstein is the one everyone goes to, the other one is less touristy and I preferred it. Dachau concentration camp is worth the trip, but be prepared to be depressed.

Staying in Venice is usually overpriced in my view. I haven't stayed in Treviso, but friends who have said the daytrip to Venice was ok.

[Mezla PigDog]

I remembered something else I meant to add to my previous post. You may want to consider taking a detour from your sensible UK driving route now and then. It's all well and good getting where you are going quickly using motorways and A roads but some B road routes will be very pretty with villages and thatched cottages and our world famous hedgerows . I'm not sure what to specifically recommend but it is probably worth a google in case there is something pretty in a convenient place for your route.

IH - I don't quite get the fascination with people going to visit the Nazi concentration camps. I totally agree with the reason why they are preserved and open to visitors. Family who have been have said Auschwitz is very much worth a visit but I only have so much money for holidays and the last thing I want is to be depressed. I guess the problem is that the people who really do need to visit these places to open their eyes are the ones who would never go.

This post has been edited by Mezla PigDog: 15 June 2014 - 06:02 PM

[Tiste Simeon]

Mezla PigDog, on 15 June 2014 - 06:01 PM, said:

IH - I don't quite get the fascination with people going to visit the Nazi concentration camps. I totally agree with the reason why they are preserved and open to visitors. Family who have been have said Auschwitz is very much worth a visit but I only have so much money for holidays and the last thing I want is to be depressed. I guess the problem is that the people who really do need to visit these places to open their eyes are the ones who would never go.

That last sentence is the key thing. Sometimes the people most in need of learning a lesson are the people who willfully ignore that lesson! I went to Auschwitz and it was a harrowing, disturbing and yet fascinating experience. I never want to do it again but I recommend it highly.

Shiara your route seems good and nearer the time we can start organising some form of Malaz get together in Manchester, however that turns out.

Mezla you don't live up this way any more do you?

This post has been edited by Tisteon Simeonus: 15 June 2014 - 08:09 PM

[Abyss]

Mezla PigDog, on 15 June 2014 - 04:11 PM, said:

...Rome is easy (I disagree with Abyss

Commie.

Quote

so long as you accept it is very touristy so the usual caveats apply of 1, Get hardened against beggars and people selling crap on the streets; 2, If you eat next to a big tourist attraction then expect overpriced and substandard food (this also applies in London, big time) and; 3, Get to the big sites early or late to avoid crowds or buy queue jumping tickets in advance)

Innate comminism aside, everything Mezla says is solid, but that last point if fucking CRUCIAL. Don't improvise, don't wing it, i know you want your freedon but you will lose HOURS of your precious vacation standing in line if you do not do this.

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Munich is a bit more difficult as I didn't like it that much. Not that it wasn't a good trip - we drank a boat load of beer and ate a lot of pig and it was nice to just hang out and experience Bavarian culture but the tourist sites were a bit crap. Go to a Beer Hall because that's the whole point of going to Munich. ...

FWIW, i thought the Beer Halls in Vienna were massively better than the ones in Munich. Unless it were Oktoberfeste, i would axe Munich and...

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If you can adjust your itinerary to pass through Florence it is well worth it!

...try to get to Florence, which is one of the greatest places to visit in Europe, imnsho.

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I've also been told by friends that while Venice is nice it is probably better to stay outside the city and go in for visits. No idea if that is true or not.

As recently as a year ago people i know were finding reasonable accom in Venice. The beauty of the city is getting lost in it, not sitting on public transport to get there.

[Tiste Simeon]

You forgot to add

Quote

Abyss, not on commission from the Venice Tourist Board, honest...

[Abyss]

Tisteon Simeonus, on 16 June 2014 - 08:44 PM, said:

You forgot to add

Quote

Abyss, not on commission from the Venice Tourist Board, honest...

They pay me in gondolas.

[Morgoth]

I was personally astonished by a) how terrible Austrian beer is and b ) how fantastic Austrian white wine turned out to be.

So, if you want a beer hall in Vienna, go for one that also serves foreign beer.

[Egwene]

Accidentally deleted my long version just as I was about to post. Here the short one...

- Book tickets ahead!

- If possible add Barcelona. The Gothic Quarter is amazing and the Sagrada Familia is a Wonder of the World being build as we speak. Here a simulation of what still needs building...


- Rome - my favourite ancient city. Watch the film 'Gladiator' to get you in the mood. You will stumble across history at every corner. The excavation featured in this article was one I stumbled across by accident when I visited Rome. Suddenly there was this board saying 'and on the steps you see there...' http://www.dailymail...--bus-stop.html

- Vienna - where Rome crumbles, Vienna shines. Palaces, horse drawn carriages, museums and the opera. Vienna is a beautiful place. Empress Elizabeth of Austria, nicknamed 'Sisi', was the Princess Diana of her day and the exhibition about her in the Hofburg is a must. Check out her wiki entry http://en.wikipedia....beth_of_Austria For decent food at decent prices go a bit further out. I asked some locals who recommended this place http://www.waldviertlerhof.at/ although as it's been a few years it may have changed since - best thing is to ask local people for recommendations.

- Edinburgh - consider staying in a Travelodge. You pay per room and looking at random date in March, prices are as little as £21 per night (so less than £11 per person). Worth checking out for the rest of the UK trip as well (and they have hotels in Barcelona!) http://www.travelodge.co.uk/

- London - make sure you know all about the congestion charges if you are driving in London http://www.tfl.gov.u...ngestion-charge

- UK - Consider a detour to the South coast - Lyme Regis is about and hour and a half by car from Stonehenge and at the heart of the Jurassic Coast, a World Heritage Site. Fossil hunting on the beach, cream tea in one of the quaint tearooms, a walk along the Undercliff or standing on The Cobb, re-enacting the famous scene from 'The French Lieutenant's Woman'. I live in the area and would be happy to put you up for the night and/or act as local guide.

Hope you have a fantastic trip wherever you go!

[Dag]

Morgoth, on 17 June 2014 - 07:30 AM, said:

I was personally astonished by a) how terrible Austrian beer is and b ) how fantastic Austrian white wine turned out to be.

So, if you want a beer hall in Vienna, go for one that also serves foreign beer.

You hurt my feelings. A lot.

[Abyss]

Dag, on 20 June 2014 - 05:23 PM, said:

Morgoth, on 17 June 2014 - 07:30 AM, said:

I was personally astonished by a) how terrible Austrian beer is and b ) how fantastic Austrian white wine turned out to be.

So, if you want a beer hall in Vienna, go for one that also serves foreign beer.

You hurt my feelings. A lot.

Ignore him, he's a communist. Possibly a cylon too.