[Pig Iron]

Short and sweet it felt like. Can I have another one please? Butter as a Tinker-class (read Worm) superhero with a holy light saber and an Intellectus familiar is crazy even by Butcher's usual standards. Scenes with Maggie made my eyes go blurry.

[Tiste Simeon]

Flipping yes! Michael is in it! Not reading this thread just wanted to share my joy!

[obihal]

foreshadowing abou Butters knighthood

"Butters," rumbled Skaldi Hair Ball. If he really had broken fingers, it didn't look like they were bothering him much. "When are you going to get in this ring and train like a man?"
"About five minutes after I get a functional lightsaber, " Butters replied easily, much to Hair Ball's amusement.

Also in Dead Beat when Harry prayed for help, hoping a Knight would show up, as he has said at least once since, Mouse and Butters showed up and did save him

[Binder of Demons]

I think "PARKOUR........ BITCH" is going to be my new catchphrase.


I was doing a quick reread of some scenes, and the one of Nico and Deirdre talking at the blood gate seemingly confirms my suspicion that the Denarians will eventually have to come in against the Outsiders.

The first bit was when Dresden taunts Deirdre and asks what she hopes to achieve, and she goes quiet and replies, "We, are fighting to save the world".

And then when, Nico is about to kill her, he says "You will be safe from the Enemy here". The capitialisation of the word Enemy jumped out at me, as being oddly specific.

So do these both mean Nicodemus is in his own way trying to counter Nemesis? Could the Denarians have been further corrupted by Nemesis?

Or does the "Enemy" just refer to God etc?

[Illuyankas]

Ever since the talk Nicodemus has with Harry about aligned goals in Death Masks, and then outside Michael's house in Small Favor, I'd thought that he was against the Black Council and/or Nemesis, which is so terrifying an enemy that Deidre is willing to be tortured for however long the memory of Greek mythology lasts for rather than be taken over. Incidentally the fallen angel who whispers the seven words to Harry was definitely Anduriel.

Does anyone remember a line from Uriel confirming the ability of the coins to get back into circulation themselves? Cause if I was Nicodemus and I wanted to hide the existance of a group inside the Church gradually feeding coins from the safehouse they're stored in back out to be picked up, spreading this idea that 'oh yeah it's totally the whole concept of the fallen that do it yep' and burning everything and everyone that says otherwise for hundreds of years would be a smart way to do it.

Also the final trilogy is going to have all thirty Denarians facing off, whether they're all on one particular side or both.

Also also, I know the next book is called Peace Talks, a faerie book and has a lot more Molly in it but I just want the whole Formor thing to be dealt with or at least acknowledged properly already.



e: Hey here's an idea for you - five holy relics related to the death and rebirth of Jesus Christ, five points on a summoning circle to place certain items on, one big honking apocalyptic trilogy at the end. The line goes 'But of that day and hour knoweth no man', right? Says nothing about wizards.

This post has been edited by Illuyankas: 29 May 2014 - 02:57 AM

[Starling]

Binder of Demons, on 28 May 2014 - 10:22 PM, said:

I think "PARKOUR........ BITCH" is going to be my new catchphrase.


I was doing a quick reread of some scenes, and the one of Nico and Deirdre talking at the blood gate seemingly confirms my suspicion that the Denarians will eventually have to come in against the Outsiders.

The first bit was when Dresden taunts Deirdre and asks what she hopes to achieve, and she goes quiet and replies, "We, are fighting to save the world".

And then when, Nico is about to kill her, he says "You will be safe from the Enemy here". The capitialisation of the word Enemy jumped out at me, as being oddly specific.

So do these both mean Nicodemus is in his own way trying to counter Nemesis? Could the Denarians have been further corrupted by Nemesis?

Or does the "Enemy" just refer to God etc?

I'd read the Enemy as being God, but it's possible that they meant Nemesis. This whole book could be foreshadowing for Harry needing to work with Nic to prevent the Outsiders from coming in.

I would second the hope that the fomor issue will be dealt with properly soon.

[Cause]

I'm pretty sure the Enemy meant God. As in your soul will be safe from his Judgement because instead your soul will be trapped in Hades. I also think the line about saving the world is not nemesis at work or them referring to battling the outsiders, I think that from there point of view they are trying to save the World from an 'unjust' god. Again its something about free will and all that theological stuff. Which is why I am not happy to see them give coins to the supernatural entities. Their fight has always seemed to be about humans, god and angels and the supernatural elements seem outside of this. I guess not.

Also I need to know more about Mouse. Anduriel panicked when he faced Mouse! What is he, why does he love harry so much and why does he love being a dog?

Why does Harry Not DemonReach the coins?

Definitely the original Merlin trapped in Stasis. You know you get the feeling he should ask his Granddad for they guys books. Just a thought.

How Does the Original Lasciel know about what Lash did?

I don't like the idea of Harry not asking for Bob back and I wonder if the new spirit baby is supposed to become a kind of Bob Replacement.

[Tiste Simeon]

54% in...

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRGGGGGGHHHHH HOLY BALLS OF MOLTEN FIRE MICHAEL IS BACK AS A KNIGHT AND FREAKING-A THAT SCENE WHERE HE GETS THE SWORD BACK IS THE MOST FIST PUMPING, SCREAM INDUCING, MASSIVE GRIN CREATING THING I HAVE EVER READ, SO FREAKING PSYCHED RIGHT NOW!!!!!!!

I mean seriously that whole bit outside Michaels house was breathtaking!

This post has been edited by Tisteon Simeonus: 29 May 2014 - 06:27 PM

[Tiste Simeon]

Tisteon Simeonus, on 29 May 2014 - 06:26 PM, said:

54% in...

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRGGGGGGHHHHH HOLY BALLS OF MOLTEN FIRE MICHAEL IS BACK AS A KNIGHT AND FREAKING-A THAT SCENE WHERE HE GETS THE SWORD BACK IS THE MOST FIST PUMPING, SCREAM INDUCING, MASSIVE GRIN CREATING THING I HAVE EVER READ, SO FREAKING PSYCHED RIGHT NOW!!!!!!!

I mean seriously that whole bit outside Michaels house was breathtaking!

Well that went downhill quickly...

[amphibian]

I don't think the original Merlin is the one in the mound that told Dresden he was tired of the showing off. He had way more things to do than sit in stasis for a long time. This is someone else - perhaps a "good" Red vampire to counterbalance the Eebs who are still with the Erlking.

I think Butcher plays with legends all the times, but Merlin dying of betrayal by Nimue/going off somewhere else extremely hard to reach isn't going to be a bit that disappears.

[Baco Xtath]

Did anyone else audiobook this one? I did and it was fantastic. Dresden yelling PARKOUR! had me laughing out loud. My favorite part had to be Butters becoming a knight. Also, Bob and Dresden's play fight (when Bob was a lion statue) was hilarious. As to theories, I've got nothin'. And, damn you Butcher for that Murphy/Dresden sex scene bullshit. Anyhoo, I thought the book was great. Not Cold Days or Dead Beat, but close.

[Imperial Historian]

Read it, enjoyed it a lot. Thought Harry's advancement over a year was artificially slowed, it didn't really fit that he spent the whole year on the island and didn't build up more of a magical arsenal.

Re nicks knife, that's the blade of the spear of Longinus no? Leaf shaped blade with wooden handle seems to fit that...

[amphibian]

How did that fake Dresden/Murph scene happen? I thought Lasciel had no reach on him anymore.

[Starling]

amphibian, on 30 May 2014 - 03:56 AM, said:

How did that fake Dresden/Murph scene happen? I thought Lasciel had no reach on him anymore.

I think that was Harry's subconscious trying to warn him that Lasciel was out and about.

[pathos]

Just a very random little thought.

When Santa is talking to Harry he says that there is only one possible person who Nic could hire because two of the four others were busy and the third was detained somewhere. I got a very similar feeling from grey and the trapped being and it seems like a good place to detain a shape shifter man is on the island.

I also wonder on the motivation of Grey for the whole thing. I mean sure Harry hires him first but why isn't cost decided beforehand (I suppose its got to do with talking and the shadow being able to hear and see stuff?) but then why only charge Harry a dollar? How well did he know Harry's mother.... could that have something to do with why he helped Harry? QUESTIONS! Its going to be an itchy year or two until my next fix


EDIT: I really enjoyed the book

This post has been edited by pathos: 30 May 2014 - 07:25 AM

[champ]

When Nik and Deirdre were talking about the Enemy I figured it to be Nemesis rather than God but I guess it could go either way, it made more sense to me - in context with the series - when they mentined saving the world and seeing the truth where others didn't. Again they could be talking about God but saving the world from God just didn't seem to fit for me!

pathos, on 30 May 2014 - 07:24 AM, said:

I also wonder on the motivation of Grey for the whole thing. I mean sure Harry hires him first but why isn't cost decided beforehand (I suppose its got to do with talking and the shadow being able to hear and see stuff?) but then why only charge Harry a dollar? How well did he know Harry's mother.... could that have something to do with why he helped Harry? QUESTIONS! Its going to be an itchy year or two until my next fix

That's what I figured, knowing Harrys mother but as to the details, really hope we find that out!

Really enjoyed the book, wasn't my favourite by far but it kept me hooked and sorted out my Dresdenfix for now!!

Loved:

- Michaels return
- Do you want to be my dad?
- Hades, Harry & Spot!
- Star Wars Butters!

[Coco with marshmallows]

looking forward to re-reading all the scenes with Grey and Harry while being aware of the code tbh.....

Other thoughts...

Damned enjoyable - also, to those saying 20 books then apocalypse trilogy - that was the original plan, but in the original plan Changes was the halfway point, so there's a possibility of slippage i believe?

Murphy and Dresden - finally.

Agree that this was an intermediate book. its setting things up for the next few.

Still would have liked an appearance from Sanya in this.

[Illuyankas]

You mean beside his being in Iran?

Besides, Changes was book 12, right? 20 books plus 3 final trilogy books equals 23, so there'll be eleven books before Changes and eleven books after.

[Tiste Simeon]

Flipping heck that book was immense! Too tired to post anything more now but the scene where Michael gets his powers back had me screaming with fierce delight. Excellent once again!

[Stalker]

Well, I really enjoyed that one. Lot of great scenes- Michael getting his sword back, the Dresden and Hades conversation (I didn't know the etymology of Cerberus- so I loved that part where Hades is asking who is a good dog!), Parkour, etc. I'm definitely looking forward to a reread with knowledge of the Goodman Grey code.