[Barghast]

Ampelas, on 23 May 2014 - 03:35 PM, said:

Decent thoughts being put out there, and I see merit in the information that could be gained from an Atrahal or possibly a GL lynch.

We need to hear a lot more, from more people though.

I would no longer be so disinclined to vote for low-posters as we move into day 3.

I agree. Lynching the low posters yesterday would not have been in our best interest. They all had only a couple posts, none of any value, and even worse, would have left us with no leads or personal connections.

For some reason, the quote bugged out, so this is cut from post 244. Denul says, "image(I'm assuming he meant 'imagine') Lio took out Sukul(instead of Fener), that leads to no connections whatsoever."

This is why I find Denul's newfound suspicion of me symping Atrahal to be hypocrisy mixed with a severe lack of thinking things out - even worse for inciting suspicions you've yet to investigate further, so early in the day before many people have came online. Not to mention the most important piece of information - my current thoughts on said individuals.

This is why I said as much yesterday, and I stand by it. However, today is ripe with a need to turn our focus on Atrahal, Sukul, and Nimander. The game has progressed enough to discern valuable information from our silent companions. I'm thinking Sukul, Nimander, and Atrahal need to step out from the shadows and assuage our concerns. Their collective low posting would possibly provide a most unwelcome place for scum to hide.

[Galayn Lord]

Denul, on 23 May 2014 - 04:11 PM, said:

Galayn Lord, on 23 May 2014 - 04:04 PM, said:

Denul, on 23 May 2014 - 03:56 PM, said:

I am going away now, looks like I won't be influential towards lynch. I will be around to change vote, and after all the discussion I see GL or Atrahal going down today, someone else would be a shock.

What odd thing to say
Why would one become shocked
Everyone is suspect

Yes, I don't want to see you lynched, but what people have said upthread ^ leads me to suspect you are a candidate for today.

There's not much discussion going on and I don't believe in an Eloth lynch eithr. I think he is a patsy

We have lots and lots of time
So let us do some rhyme
Why would I be a candidate
When all I do is give bait
Ampelas says info from my lynch
I ask what info does he think
Eloth has been shady
Unnecessarily wary
Careful with his words
Walking the fence of verbs
But if not they then who
If not Eloth then too
Could also be suspect
Those of too quiet aspect
Do they hide within the pack
Or sit at the bottom of the sack
I surely do not know
As there is not much to go
On, so therefore I have Eloth
To provide me with some meatloaf
Otherwise we solely lynch at random
A choice not made with venom
But nonetheless not clever
Surely there are better
Atrahal is a question
Which has not received much attention
Strongest your case is not
Ties itself in a knot
With interpretation of causation
Which requires more sustenantation
But hear from Barghast I would much desire
On this matter on which you enquire

[Eloth]

Can someone de-rhyming couplet that crap so I can read what he's trying to say? At this point I would happily lynch him to get rid of this nonsense.

[Nimander Golit]

Denul, on 23 May 2014 - 02:20 PM, said:

Look at it this way.

As an ri we don't know who is scum, so Lio, Fener and HP were all innocent and they were just as clueless as the rest of us. Until we get that scum CF we cannot know why people are doing what they are doing. If for example, Atrahal turns up scum then I'll be wanting to lynch Barghast. However, if he CF's innocent I will want to vote Sukul or Nimander because their presence fits my case against Barghast being symp.

You're being rather quick to VPI yourself there are you not dearie? Life has been keeping me busy this week but I should have time now that the weekend is upon us. In the meantime I am just dying to hear how my four posts of 'presence' fit any case against anyone.

I have completed a quick read through and my one clear early thought is that Denul is playing the very good RI. He's pointed fingers at just about everyone while commenting about his search for reactions. In later days he'll be able to use that prodding to defend himself quite nicely against anything anyone should try to lay at his door. Mostly what tingles is the thorough post by post commentary without actually quoting the posts. It reminds me of all those forwarded emails that I get concerning the outrageous thing this pol said and why I should be quivering with desire to out them because of it. Those emails tend to include a link to a legitimate news site that quotes the said outrageous comment but when I follow the link it turns out that the pol didn't say quite what it is said they say. Of course the author of the screed knows that most people won't follow that link and read for themselves nor will the sheeple who duly forward it to more sheeple. I won't be putting a vote on you Denul but IGMYEOY.

[Barghast]

Denul, on 23 May 2014 - 04:02 PM, said:

Denul, on 23 May 2014 - 04:01 PM, said:

Denul, on 23 May 2014 - 04:01 PM, said:

Denul, on 23 May 2014 - 03:56 PM, said:

I am going away now, looks like I won't be influential towards lynch. I will be around to change vote, and after all the discussion I see GL or Atrahal going down today, someone else would be a shock.

I say that, but personally I don't think GL will turn out to be scum. I've said as much upthread.

It is mafia and I have been fooled before.

Given Barghast's time away from the thread, he best be coming up with something magnificent that will sway heads.

Honestly, I feel that with so much time left in the day, I'm going to hold off for now. P-S is freezing the day before it ends, then we have the extended weekend freeze. Anything of great importance would likely grow stale by the time Tuesday rolls back around.

[Pallid]

quick catch up over that eloth/denul pissing match.

Denul is pushing all the wrong buttons with me for sure.
His tone and approach just scream directing traffic. in a nutshell suggesting we lynch atrahal, if that cfs inno, lets go for nimander or barghast.
now seeing as he's pushing barghast symp that would be another cf that could be breezed over, we're looking at potentially 3 lynches lined up for us here. coupled with his little "I honestly don't see GL cfing as scum" I have bells a ringing, and its not just my tinnitus.

Where Eloth was striking the chord of "ho hum, I'm not really sure who is scummy" for a while (a hole I've been trapped in when a killer before, but a hole I also get trapped in all the time because I generally don't know anyway) Denul is hedging sometihng serious here to line up 2/3 days voting paterns in advance, with a get out clause in place for 3 RI cfs already. I don't like this, it reads the way I would play a symp, and when it all goes down the shit pan he can take the fall and his masters are still scott free.
I think its too ballsy to be a killer, but if I paint him as symp then Eloth most certainly doesn't work as the killer. My head hurts, but whilst I would vote for Eloth today, I need to think about how denuls rubbing my bump of trouble a bit more


edit - added the y in ballsy

This post has been edited by Pallid: 23 May 2014 - 05:53 PM

[Sukul Ankhadu]

Sorry I've been absent; I will catch up sometime over the holiday. It's been a long week.

[Denul]

Pallid, on 23 May 2014 - 05:52 PM, said:

quick catch up over that eloth/denul pissing match.

Denul is pushing all the wrong buttons with me for sure.
His tone and approach just scream directing traffic. in a nutshell suggesting we lynch atrahal, if that cfs inno, lets go for nimander or barghast.
now seeing as he's pushing barghast symp that would be another cf that could be breezed over, we're looking at potentially 3 lynches lined up for us here. coupled with his little "I honestly don't see GL cfing as scum" I have bells a ringing, and its not just my tinnitus.

Where Eloth was striking the chord of "ho hum, I'm not really sure who is scummy" for a while (a hole I've been trapped in when a killer before, but a hole I also get trapped in all the time because I generally don't know anyway) Denul is hedging sometihng serious here to line up 2/3 days voting paterns in advance, with a get out clause in place for 3 RI cfs already. I don't like this, it reads the way I would play a symp, and when it all goes down the shit pan he can take the fall and his masters are still scott free.
I think its too ballsy to be a killer, but if I paint him as symp then Eloth most certainly doesn't work as the killer. My head hurts, but whilst I would vote for Eloth today, I need to think about how denuls rubbing my bump of trouble a bit more


edit - added the y in ballsy

I would like to look at it as mentioning people so that they respond to accusations.

I see no one agreeing with my Atrahal vote. Only people casting a shadow over my integrity. As you can see day one I wasn't around towards end of day and that the person who pushed lios lynch was Barghast. Now should we all listen to you again Pallid with how right you were with Lio.

If yall wana sit back and let scum win be my guest. I'm out until Tuesday

[Denul]

Ie my response there was to "directing the thread. How can I direct it if I'm not there at the most important time.

[Atrahal]

Survival post.

Sorry guys, I am well and truly swamped with work and life atm. Hopefully I can have a little sit-down somewhere this weekend, or on monday morning.

[Atrahal]

Denul, on 23 May 2014 - 02:12 PM, said:

This one? Dear me, it is a bit of a mess.

Eloth, on 23 May 2014 - 10:03 AM, said:

Denul, on 23 May 2014 - 08:08 AM, said:

Eloth, on 23 May 2014 - 06:52 AM, said:

Why Lio? Why use the vig on Day fucking 1. We get it, it sucks to be lynched in the randomness of day 1. But it would have been so much better to have you die without using it, than to have the situation we have now...

Got to go asap, I will respond to the accusations against me later today, I'll just say this - I avoided making cases and joining in the slap fights because it was an incredibly banal (and short) Day 1.

This sounds like false indignation.

Messremb is a newish player but you can see why he used his vig. He was getting lynched anyway, and it clears another player. I would prefer it to be used now, than on D day or something like that. The situation is not a bad one. Like I say, this reads false.

Using his suicide vig Fener does not help us in any scenario at this point. "Clearing" that player means nothing when that player is now DEAD. I would GREATLY prefer using the vig on D day when we have FAR more evidence to go on and can base our actions on more than gut feeling.

Yes, yes it does. Look at Barghast's case. It centered around 3 players. Liosan just cleared two of them. So could Pallid be scum or just another townie that Barghast is pointing us towards? If the vig gets it wrong D day it is game over. Right now, it is not game over. We have lots of time left.



I disagree that the situation is not bad, this was the worst possible outcome for day 1. The situation is far from untenable of course, and we can still win, but it would have been easier if the situation were other than what it is right now.

Yes it is the worst possible outcome on day 1. 3 dead town but better the town being suspects than unknowns, image Lio took out Sukul, that leads to no connections whatsoever, although it does clear a low poster. In fact, that would have been a good move too. I do no fault Lio for using his town ability when he was up for the chop. He should not have gotten himself into the position he did. Look at us RI's that's our job. To make cases and stand out. That way, he would still be alive, and we would have a vig in our pocket. Yet we all decided he was best option for the lynch AND YOU VOTED FOR HIM TOO AND FORCED HIS HAND. I am saying Barghast was the main protagonist of that but you helped. I helped, all the ones that voted for Lio helped. Yet the day after you come on and go, "why Lio, why did you do it", that cries of false indignation to me and I said it that way.


I don't understand the heat I'm getting for playing cautiously on the only day when we have no concrete evidence of any kind, but I will lay my cards on the table right now.

I was not part of your heat. I have said as much.

Denul is behaving like someone who is not worried in the slightest about getting NKed.

I am not worried about that, if I am killed I am killed and you can use my death. I am worried about not getting lynches in and putting people under pressure.


With how often he is posting and how many half baked opinions he feels confident sharing and throwing votes on as many people as he can, it makes me wonder whether he is scum, symp, or simply useful for the scum to keep around.

So I am scum, symp or useful to scum? What happens when I CF RI? You will pick whatever suits you best. So, come on Eloth, what am I?




If I were scum he would have been the number one target for a NK because he has only added to the confusion

Okay, you just said I was useful to scum but now you are saying you would have killed me if you were scum?



, as well as killing off the highest poster in the game, slowing the exchange of information. The only reasons I can imagine him being alove today over HP is (1) He is scum (2) He is symp/useful to scum at the moment by distracting from them) (3) He is barking up the wrong tree or (4) HP was on point with his posts.

See, looking into the night kill like this is scummy Eloth. You cannot know why they picked HP at all. It's WIFOM of the highest caliber.



He agreed with me that putting pressure on Sukul is a good vote, and votes on Barghast for the exact same reason 59 minutes later he agrees that it is a bad tactic, what the hell? He puts pressure on Pallid while saying he finds it unlikely Pallid is scum and quotes posts that he himself has previously stated to be joke posts like he is building a case against Pallid. Not good play at all. Even if Pallid is a symp, misusing the posts of others is a awful way to go about trying to convince others to do that.

Quote this sequence of events please. You are trying to put things there, that don't exist.


I don't understand how anyone could be so brazen in throwing accusations and votes all over the thread only to come out unscathed the next day without being scum or completely wrong.

I was obviously completely wrong, my vote stayed on Liosan.

Vote Denul

HP voted for GL at the start of the day, we connect briefly over our desire to have more people contribute (I miss you you dead bastard!) Wonders about Denuls quick abandonment of a Pallid vote once Denul is threatened.

Lies.

Further attempts to bring GL into the limelight and GLs coasting RPing may be scum tactic. Criticises Denul once again. He leaves for a few hours then comes back on thread and agrees with the other people who are suspicious of me, I have already responded to this a few posts up. TL:DR for that post is he read a few of my statements incorrectly and disagreed with my suspicion of Denul.


Who are you reading here? HP? Why are you not quoting him? You are basing your vote off of the night kill and yet you are not posting HP's criticism of me and then disagreeing with you about suspecting me. This whole shit case is so shit and messy and fucking idiotic.

Long and short of it is HP was NKed after putting 3 people into the spotlight during day 1. GL, Denul, and me. No, you do not know this, you cannot know this and you're fucking thick to fucking think it. For fuck sake, are you in special school?



He seemed to switch off Denul in favour of a vote for me since he seems to think my dislike of Denul is due to sheltering Pallid.

The Hate


I don't have a read on GL yet, but

It grows

that is because he hasn't stopped RPing which I think he should now.


I think HP was killed for pointing at GL or Denul

and grows



(Obviously, since I'm ne and I know I'm town, I am certain he was not killed for pointing at me, but obviously you will all have to consider the evidence yourselves) and would welcoime further discussion about both of them. Until then my vote stays where it is

Omg, I didn't even read this fully before. I think I just puked a little in my mouth.

That ^. Whatever that is. Is disgusting and so bad. Focusing today's vote on the night kill.




To end. Eloth, even though that case is awful, I applaud you for trying. I don't even have you in my scum read at the moment.

I still prefer Atrahal over anyone else today, but just for you, I will have a read over HP.

I see the point for voting me, because I'm sure I can't contribute much. I hesitated to post because it resets the modkill timer but in the end, giving up is not my style and I am not sure it benefits town, especially not with the day 1 ninja taken into account.


Since no-one has a read on me, a lynch will thus be be arbitrary and everyone could/should be on the train, town and scum alike.
Long term, however, it might mean an additional player who can contribute more in the end-game rather than me, who might be low-lying scum. So there's a bit of clarification in the CF.


Now to catch up a little bit.

[Atrahal]

Eloth, on 22 May 2014 - 02:22 PM, said:

Ampelas, on 22 May 2014 - 02:12 PM, said:

I used to buy that reasoning, but not really so much anymore. At this point, there are going to be people who couldn't get online, got slammed at work, or whatever.

The person you call out will come on and act indignant, and then either post some comments or not post some comments. I dont' think it tells us anything either way.

If they are, in fact, lurking scum, then they'll either make a reasonable sounding post that allays your fears, or they'll just remain non-committal and get forgotten until days later.

Punching at low posters on Day 1 is too easy and ultimately lazy. Punch at people that are HERE.

I've already stated my uneasiness about Denul and his attempts to steer the thread, and will continue to keep an eye on Pallid. But as there are 13 hours left today I am content to see what (and who) else comes out of the woodwork before throwing around more speculation. You are accusing me of trying to coast by being ostensibly town but ultimately unhelpful and I suspect trying to get a more emotional or aggressive response before you make up your mind about me, but I'm not being needlessly antagonistic on day 1.

Doing a DKT here. I know the general gist of the thread but not the individual posts, hence this style rather than a summary.


This is an interesting exchange, because both quoted players sound ultimately reasonable - although it's also a huge bunch of theoretical bollocks. Eloth asking for a presence 20 hours into the game and expecting stuff to come from the woodworks day 1 is over stretching. I guess none of us counted on ninja Lio later on, though.

[Atrahal]

Denul, on 22 May 2014 - 02:28 PM, said:

Eloth, on 22 May 2014 - 02:22 PM, said:

Ampelas, on 22 May 2014 - 02:12 PM, said:

I used to buy that reasoning, but not really so much anymore. At this point, there are going to be people who couldn't get online, got slammed at work, or whatever.

The person you call out will come on and act indignant, and then either post some comments or not post some comments. I dont' think it tells us anything either way.

If they are, in fact, lurking scum, then they'll either make a reasonable sounding post that allays your fears, or they'll just remain non-committal and get forgotten until days later.

Punching at low posters on Day 1 is too easy and ultimately lazy. Punch at people that are HERE.

I've already stated my uneasiness about Denul and his attempts to steer the thread, and will continue to keep an eye on Pallid. But as there are 13 hours left today I am content to see what (and who) else comes out of the woodwork before throwing around more speculation. You are accusing me of trying to coast by being ostensibly town but ultimately unhelpful and I suspect trying to get a more emotional or aggressive response before you make up your mind about me, but I'm not being needlessly antagonistic on day 1.

Like Pallid? I don't want to come off as antagonistic but I am frustrated that people are sitting back and letting other people do their work. Comment on my last post please, what do you think about each player in that comment/post?

Blergh. Seems like you read what Ampelas said, didn't take any on board and keep complaining.

Same fucking drivel every single fucking game, accounting for at the least 4 posts per player who bothers with it, padding their postcount above those who don't.

Just respect that people have different posting times/availability. It doesn't mean they're sitting back, being lazy. In fucking fact, the thread will be shorter, mooe comprehensive and easier to catch up if we can skip this goddamned garbage.

[Atrahal]

Denul, on 22 May 2014 - 02:34 PM, said:

Ampelas, on 22 May 2014 - 02:32 PM, said:

@ denul re:kaschan

Even the people who said in signups "I will be a low poster" should still be able to come up with some sort of thought on a mere 3 pages of play. So yeah, boo kaschan.

Yeah I agree. That's why I won't vote a low poster for low posting, I will vote them for not playing, ie giving us what they think.

Holier than thou shithead. "I won't vote player X because he doesn't post. I vote him because he doesn't play." Same difference if worded that way if you post it DAY FUCKING 1.

Eat a bag of dicks if you want something hard and concrete. I'm told it's quite a hard substance to swallow, might keep you busy for a while.


I am hopefully getting to content worth reflecting on in the next few pages, if the remaining 4 are filled with shit like this, I will vote myself.

[Atrahal]

Kaschan, on 22 May 2014 - 03:49 PM, said:

Atrahal, on 22 May 2014 - 06:51 AM, said:

'llo there. You all seem jumpy as fuck.
Fener being voted for being a mysogenistic wanker and people defending him is interesting, though.

Possible signal to Liosan?

No. And unless he's a ninja-symp and I am scum and know him, there's thus no case tied to it either.
Rep coming for looking closely enough at the thread for spotting it.

[Atrahal]

Barghast, on 22 May 2014 - 07:06 PM, said:

Pallid, on 22 May 2014 - 06:04 AM, said:

fuck this

vote Liosan

entirely too vehement a reaction to suspicion on him, day one or not, his jump was not haha jokey to me, it was opportunist. There's multiple options out there for joke votes, none of them a second on a train

This is interesting to me because Liosan sits as my current top choice for scum, but Pallid is a close second. This helps lend credence to choosing Liosan to be lynched, because if he is scum, then it will help to clear Pallid from my focus for the most part, and if he isn't then we still are left with another viable alternative.

Pallid, on 22 May 2014 - 10:46 AM, said:

fire drill at work, equals check up time.
you all fell into my trap, are you the priests???
Right now denul is pushing my buttons by suggesting sympage, and trying to direct traffic. But I still want to hear more from lio

This post is extremely uncomfortable somehow. I'm not quite sure of what Pallid is trying to convey, but again it reinforces his suspicion of Liosan. The first time could have been distancing, but the second time helps establish the assumption as correct.

Hood, on 22 May 2014 - 11:02 AM, said:

Eloth, on 22 May 2014 - 10:05 AM, said:

Hood, on 22 May 2014 - 10:01 AM, said:

Eloth, on 22 May 2014 - 07:34 AM, said:

**SERIOUS MODE ACTIVATE!**

The second joke vote on Fener was not necessary, yeah it was probably a joke, but starting a train for a laugh is something people generally avoid...

I don't think that any of this is enough to warrant getting serious yet, but people jump all over whatever snippets they think they find on day 1.

**Alert, serious mode battery depleted**

That Fener avatar looks great, but it just isn't big enough. In my head he's larger than the hounds, not a "slightly bigger than normal" boar.

I dunno, it seems to me that getting serious early is a good thing. There'll be connections all over the shop and you might be able to induce a false reaction in someone with an early vote. The problem we have normally is that we don't pressure enough people - if you only get a read on a small fraction of players, the chances are pretty low that you've found something that legitimately leads to scum. If you get a read on everybody then there's a much better chance that there is actually some gold amongst the dirt, you just have to sift through the rubbish to find it. I'd much prefer the latter...

EDIT: X-post

Excellent cross post. Just after I try to get more people involved you suggest it is better for us to get more people involved. Synchronicity!

Glad to see we're on the same page . Barghast and Kaschan both need to show up properly too. I've never understood people who do a 'Check in' style post and then just leave without saying anything else, it seems...rude, I guess. At least say "Can't talk now, will be back later" if that's what the problem is...

Kiss my ass. There was plenty of time left in the day at this point for having patience.

Fener, on 22 May 2014 - 02:52 PM, said:

Liosan's initial jumpiness and subsequent silence pushes me towards him being scum, but i would like to see a little more of the day go by before I drop a vote, who knows maybe he will surprise me. I would definitely like to hear from some of the non-entities that are cruising around out there as well. Nimander dropped by to stir the pot and then disappeared, which simply made the waters even more murky. There just really isnt a whole lot new to go on at this point. Like Johnny 5 "Need Input!"

This reads to me as if Fener wants to be seen advocating a Liosan lynch without having to stand ground. This furthers my choice for Liosan as far as gaining information post lynch on one of my other two considerations.

Kaschan, on 22 May 2014 - 03:49 PM, said:

Atrahal, on 22 May 2014 - 06:51 AM, said:

'llo there. You all seem jumpy as fuck.
Fener being voted for being a mysogenistic wanker and people defending him is interesting, though.

Possible signal to Liosan?

Lastly, why not. Just another route to retrace if Liosan is indeed scum.

That's about all I have for now. Apologies for having to cram it all into one sitting. Some of us can't get on thread as often as others. However, I do plan on making it back before day end. In the case that I can't, I'm leaving a vote for Liosan. Most of the reasoning I have is circumstantial at best, but I believe that it's a very good shot, and a cf will provide us other paths to look down regardless of the outcome, which is the most we can hope to achieve.

vote Liosan

I like your reasoning. With the events unfolding as they did, they also moved the thread and amend your posts with two clear cut CFs. Are you still interested in pursuing Pallid?

[Atrahal]

Eloth, on 22 May 2014 - 08:03 PM, said:

Barghast and others, voting on people who have yet to show up on Day 1 lets us express our frustration at their absence and our desire for them to become active. As well as pointing out to others that there are still significant information and opinions we are still missing out on. Does it make them log in faster? No, but as far as I'm concerned it's not "a wrong play" on day 1.

Vote seems to be heading towards Liosan, primarily because of him being the second person to vote for Fener. Not a lot else to go one within his posts himself, which is odd given how much of day 1 has been spent talking about him. Seems to be a victim of circumstance, which I suppose par for the course on Day 1. Not sure what will come of this in the end, but then that is the point isn't it.

Remove Vote

Vote Liosan

Meh.
I'd rather say than express frustration and desire, you're instead voting in a meaningless way at best and whipping up a frenzied train at worst. Day 1 is not the day for low-poster hunts, especially not on a mid-week start. Do you see me voting half the thread because since sunday afternoon my time, I'm the only player who can be arsed to post?

Completely unrelated:

I don't like how Denul has a finger in every pie and a comment and a judgment on everything, low-poster posts aside. It goes to the point where he's complimenting people that "they sound more town in this post than in their previous one". WTF? First, the more people sound like scum, the more leads we have. The second, scum will want to look like town, too, so it is pointless to lower suspicion because they sound more like town after a scummy post. It is the scummy posts that should stick to the brain, not the towny ones. Third, who elected him judge of what's towny? This is mafia, not "give head to Denul to have him say you're town."


If you have beef with someone's posting style/content/comment, make a damned case or a note.
If you like what they post, fine. But this? Goddamn.

[Atrahal]

Denul, on 23 May 2014 - 08:08 AM, said:

Eloth, on 23 May 2014 - 06:52 AM, said:

Why Lio? Why use the vig on Day fucking 1. We get it, it sucks to be lynched in the randomness of day 1. But it would have been so much better to have you die without using it, than to have the situation we have now...

Got to go asap, I will respond to the accusations against me later today, I'll just say this - I avoided making cases and joining in the slap fights because it was an incredibly banal (and short) Day 1.

This sounds like false indignation.

Messremb is a newish player but you can see why he used his vig. He was getting lynched anyway, and it clears another player. I would prefer it to be used now, than on D day or something like that. The situation is not a bad one. Like I say, this reads false.

It doesn't just clear another player. It also removes one. Same why a townie willingly mod-killing himself to not lumber town down is a bad move. the numbers go down too quickly and you get to an end-game with more CFs and fewer leads about who's alive.
In this case, Messremb's own death was the lynch compensation, the other death a clear-up. What's exactly being cleared up, remains to be seen as I don't really see a motivation from him for killing Fener, apart from following Barghast's scum list. If you explicitly trust Barghast or agree with him, it's good play.

If not or you have reasonable doubt, then it's a bad act. I think Barghast's one of the more levelheaded players on the thread. As said above, I also like Barghy's reasoning. BUT.... Liking someone is, I guess, the most dangerous thing in mafia. For a ninja-vig, more certainty or two equally good targets on which town is split (making a lynch unlikely) is required, to use it, imho. That's almost never so on day 1.

[Atrahal]

Eloth, on 23 May 2014 - 09:18 AM, said:

Hood, on 22 May 2014 - 11:04 PM, said:

OK, so looking back over the other cases on offer, the one that makes the most sense to me is the Eloth one. He displayed a couple of behavioural traits that I tend to be suspicious of:

- He was finding it difficult to actually accuse anyone of anything. This often manifests itself when a scum's need to blend in wars with his knowledge that everyone else in the game is innocent. So for example:
(NB: The following post was originally replied to inline, but I hate it when people do that because it's really unclear so I've reordered it in more-standard quote form)

Eloth, on 22 May 2014 - 12:01 PM, said:

Denul, on 22 May 2014 - 11:33 AM, said:

So you think Pallid is joking with his posts?

No not joking, pallid responded very aggressively to the double vote, and I don't yet know why, it of course is worth further consideration, but we can't draw any conclusions from it I think.

ie. "I find this suspicious, but I don't think it means anything." Seems a bit contradictory.
I didn't say that at all. I said very explicitly, that it is worth looking at further but jumping to a conclusion based on it is premature. You are either deliberately misreading my posts in an effort to get me lynched by making others misread it, or you are just unable to understand simple short sentences. Since you are playing Mafia I'd say it is more likely the former.

He also chickened out of actually pressuring anyone by dropping a vote on Sukul Ankhadu. Ampelas has already expressed why this is problematic here:
I didn't chicken out of anything, I chose not to, at no point on Day 1 did anyone perform any action I felt was scumlike. I feel this is vindicated soemewhat by the lynch on Liosan being full of shit, his vig of Fener being full of shit, and the NK of Hoods Path revealing he was ALSO town, as he was getting apparent pressure for symping. You want to make being reasonable lynchable? Why not just bend over right now? We already lost 3 town in a single day, this is not the time to jumping up and down screaming and making any case we can, so I will sit back and continue to look carefully at each player.

Eloth, on 22 May 2014 - 09:58 AM, said:

Since we actually only have just over 1 page of posts to look at after the switch up, the only two people who have caught my eye are you and Pallid. So much seriousness from the pair of you over relatively nothing.

When was the last time anything of consequence was said on day 1 that lead to a successful lynch?

Having said that, I'd really like to hear from some of the people who have yet to contribute in any way. Sukul Ankhadu no posts, three people with 1, most of them just checking in. So in that vein;

Remove Vote
Vote Sukul Ankhadu

Get online and give us what ya got, Sukul!

Ampelas, on 22 May 2014 - 01:00 PM, said:

All right, here are my thoughts, because you all asked so nicely.

I see my joke vote has ballooned into a train on Liosan. Not because of anything I did, I just happen to be the first person on there. I'll replace said vote, if necessary, but I am going to

Remove vote

Vote Eloth

because he has answered questions and analyzed some things, yet the only person he can commit to pressure is someone who hasn't even shown up yet. Operation "Good Job" during the "Do Your Best" offensive has been a success, Eloth.

It appears involved. It appears to be active and information gathering-esque. But it lacks any real bite.

- He's also very wary of getting drawn into a shouting match, perhaps because he overvalues his own skin:
Of course I am wary of getting into a shouting match, the only possible outcome of one is distracting from locating scum. I don't overestimate my own importance. I correctly estimate my own value to town.

Eloth, on 22 May 2014 - 02:22 PM, said:

Ampelas, on 22 May 2014 - 02:12 PM, said:

<Case on Eloth>

I've already stated my uneasiness about Denul and his attempts to steer the thread, and will continue to keep an eye on Pallid. But as there are 13 hours left today I am content to see what (and who) else comes out of the woodwork before throwing around more speculation. You are accusing me of trying to coast by being ostensibly town but ultimately unhelpful and I suspect trying to get a more emotional or aggressive response before you make up your mind about me, but I'm not being needlessly antagonistic on day 1.

- And I didn't like his complaints about Denul 'leading the thread' either. It's Day 1, there's no reason why this should be threatening at this point, unless he's afraid that Denul is focusing on someone he wants to protect (or perhaps will in the near future). Here's where he does that:

Eloth, on 22 May 2014 - 11:21 AM, said:

Denul you are treating everything after that post as genuine and serious, when I think most of them are still humorous/joking. It wasn't until you started posting about it that things heated up.

Not sure I like where you are trying to take this thread, you admit he's unlikely to be scum then continue trying to vilify him and make others hostile to him as well. You are within the same post contradicting yourself here. Why?

There's enough for me to see this as a good alternative.

Remove Vote
Vote Eloth

Ah..... everything I dislike in Denul's play all rolled into one. It's all very one-sided interpretation and jumping the gun labelled under 'pressuring'. I should have slipped all my earlier complaints about the guy.

[Atrahal]

Denul, on 23 May 2014 - 01:39 PM, said:

Ampelas, on 23 May 2014 - 01:33 PM, said:

Denul, on 23 May 2014 - 01:24 PM, said:

I never voted for Pallid.

My reads are above for all to see, I wonder if Atrahal is the one we should lynch, there are a few that fit the MO but Atrahal was the recent vote by Amp when Barghast started his campaign.

what? I never voted for Atrahal.

Sorry it was Lio. Lio voted Atrahal, and 30 minutes later Barghast starts his campaign.

Liosan, on 22 May 2014 - 04:28 PM, said:

You know what,

Vote Atrahal

Get on thread and do something.

Wait, what?
You vote for me because Lio thought I might be (fake)symping him and voted me based on the

Quote

'llo

combined with me being absent. And because Liosan was town, he must be right and that's worth going? And for you, it doesn't matter whether it was Ampelas or Lio in the first place? WTF, man.