[Denul]

 Monok Ochem, on 15 April 2014 - 04:52 AM, said:

<s, and aside: fuck these stupid monkey translators, every goddamn MO post is a pain in the ass to quote, effectively dampening his caseworthiness from laziness, not what I would consider good townie play>


Sorry, so here's the the short of it. Master Denul, not Master Serc, is at the heart of this. Here is what the Librarian has ascertained:

Spoiler

Ponder.png

: First of all, Master Denul announced himself in the standard, provocative manner. Interestingly enough, as the Librarian pointed out, this manner quickly degenerates into base tomfoolery, making light of the last game's fake signalling, and a humorous switchero with a male picture where there ought to have been a more, er, beautiful lady. The quote (third below in the amazing MultiQuote device) that bothered him and myself the most was a comment about absence, not reading the OP, and speculation on a "symp" girlfriend. Quite the post for someone seemingly unengaged. Then Master Serc seems to "signal" closely followed by Master Korabas, and then it all just falls apart from there. But it comes back to Master Denul, don't you see? Master Denul's seemingly simple and easy going posts seems flippant, maybe even elusive, especially in context.


<s>

 Denul, on 14 April 2014 - 03:52 PM, said:

I don't have a lot of time to post today so you probably won't hear from me again for the next few hours at least, but I promise I will give the OP a read at some point

For whomever was speculating about Kenshiro being alone upthread, IIRC he has a girlfriend who is kidnapped by one of the villains but still loves him, so that could be a potential symp role.

<s>

So two posts after MO pleads for a re-focus from Korabas onto the scum master Serc, he changes his mind again and now wants to re-focus on me. I find his reasoning outrageously stupid and hypocritical though:

1. "First of all, Master Denul announced himself in the standard, provocative manner." --> uh, I said "checking in" how in the fuck is that either provocative or scummy?

2. "Interestingly enough, as the Librarian pointed out, this manner quickly degenerates into base tomfoolery, making light of the last game's fake signalling, and a humorous switchero with a male picture where there ought to have been a more, er, beautiful lady." Oh noes I made a joke on day 1 and engaged in "tomfoolery"... oh wait you're the one fucking posting ooks and aaaks with a bunch of spoilered discworld pictures, which is far far more 'tomfoolery' than me. And yet you want this case to be taken seriously?


3. "The quote that bothered him and myself the most was a comment about absence, not reading the OP, and speculation on a "symp" girlfriend. Quite the post for someone seemingly unengaged." Does-not-have-a-lot-of-time-to-post is not at all the same as unengaged. I only had two 30-minute chunks to post in at first, but I provided information from my memory about the theme, pointed out something in the OP that aided the current mechanics discussion and made an educated speculation on the scum team makeup (as well as several jokes, yes). You, on the other hand, spent your entire first several hours of the game just making stupid fucking oookk posts just to be annoying and then flip-flopped between crappy symp-master accusations within 10 seconds. So who is really "unengaged" ?


4. "Then Master Serc seems to "signal" closely followed by Master Korabas, and then it all just falls apart from there. But it comes back to Master Denul, don't you see? Master Denul's seemingly simple and easy going posts seems flippant, maybe even elusive, especially in context." unlike your horde of ookk posts that are neither flippant, nor elusive, right? But nevermind that. Why wouldn't my posts be "simple and easy going" ? You say this like it is soooo terrible and scummy, but when have simple and easy going posts on day 1 ever been considered a marker for scum?

[Denul]

 Monok Ochem, on 15 April 2014 - 04:57 AM, said:

Ooook.

Spoiler

Dean.png

: Righto. Ponder forgot to mention that despite Serc's supposed "sympage" we see Denul remaining cautiously aloof from this situation. Why bring up something that comes around while going around, heh?

Apparently being offline when people start arguing about you is being "cautiously aloof"

[Denul]

 Korabas, on 15 April 2014 - 05:23 AM, said:

I decided to look into Denul based on Monok's post. Denul does avoid the Serc symp case, but he does not defend Serc's mistake (his claim that there is only one scum).

 Denul, on 14 April 2014 - 06:09 PM, said:

 Path-Shaper, on 11 April 2014 - 02:07 PM, said:

Victory Conditions

Town: Eliminate Kenshiro

Scum: Achieve majority OR Kenshiro kills the 3 warlords. If a warlord is lynched, it does not count toward this VC, which becomes null.

This makes me think that there are other scum roles beyond Kenshiro.

 Denul, on 14 April 2014 - 06:53 PM, said:

...also the second part of that scum VC definitely makes it seem like Kenshiro is the only killer - no other scum kills/vigs nor is he partnered with anyone (though he could still have a lover but not be partnered) - since it only talks about Kenshiro killing the warlords or them being lynched. I could see a town vig being present without murkying up that scum VC too much, but any other scum kills/vigs beyond Kenshiro would get into too much cross-interpretation of the OP if they killed a warlord to be included in this game.

These comments, if anything, make Serc's mistake more evident. If there is some sympage going on here, either:

1) It is non-applicable
2) Denul missed it
3) Denul is distancing himself from Serc without directly addressing the issue.

Okay, now here's Korabas chiming in. Waaaay over-thinking it. Simply put, while I was still online Serc's post was a one-off question/speculation and I didn't see anything wrong with it. Tiam questioned it as more signaling, like she had already done for 3 other posts prior, so that didn't hold much flak. People only started making a big deal about it after I was gone. I didn't need to deliberately ignore it or dismiss it because it wasn't even in my thoughts at all. It was simply Serc posits an idea, I told him he was wrong from my knowledge of the theme, and that was it, done. IMHO, any additional focusing on it at that time would've been far more scummy behaviour. Obviously some people disagree and think that Serc's speculative query was the absolute height of scumminess but I didn't and at the time there was no reason to look at it further.

[Denul]

We will now have a 15-minute intermission.

[Path-Shaper]

5 hours and 57 minutes left in Day One.

16 players alive.
Alkend, Ampelas, Bek Okhan, Denul, Eloth, Galayn Lord, Kessobahn, Korabas, Lock, Okral Lom, Monok Ochem, Rikkter, Ruse, Serc, Shadow, Tiamatha

9 votes to lynch, 8 to go to night.

1 vote Korabas: Okral Lom
3 votes Denul: Monok Ochem, Bek Okhan, Tiamatha
2 votes Serc: Alkend, Korabas

Players not voted: Ampelas,, Denul, Eloth, Galayn Lord, Kessobahn, Lock, Rikkter, Ruse, Serc, Shadow


I will be offline for the rest of the countdown, but will be awake to resolve. If a lynch happens well before timeout, you will just have to wait!

This post has been edited by Path-Shaper: 15 April 2014 - 02:52 PM

[Denul]

 Alkend, on 15 April 2014 - 11:18 AM, said:

 Denul, on 14 April 2014 - 03:52 PM, said:

I don't have a lot of time to post today so you probably won't hear from me again for the next few hours at least, but I promise I will give the OP a read at some point

For whomever was speculating about Kenshiro being alone upthread, IIRC he has a girlfriend who is kidnapped by one of the villains but still loves him, so that could be a potential symp role.

Right so first there is Denul. I have underlined this because there are 4 posts directly above his post quoting Serc. I cannot see how Denul does not know that Serc was the one who made the comment.

So how else could I read this post by Denul "for Serc I am that girl, ie I am your symp"

It really does read that way to me.

Here's where Alkend starts getting into the mix on me, though arguing that I am the symp and Serc is the master now. Even then, I am not going to let it slide as he suggested because I am not scum at all, neither Kenshiro nor symp nor any other scum role. I will defend against any such accusations, even if there are worse ones floating around, too. To do otherwise is how you get the thread all wrongly believing you are a symp and misreading everything you say for the next 3 days, which is not helpful to town at all.

[Alkend]

It will be interesting to see where you end up.

[Lock]

That was an interesting read. However, despite all of Denul's posting, I can already sense that this is an issue which is going to run and run throughout the game unless it is resolved, and I'm already tired of it. Alkend may or may not be correct in their suspicions, but either way they appear quite blinkered, dismissing Denul's posting with one-liners here and there. At the same time, Denul's splurging, though it seems at least half-sensible responses, itself raises an eyebrow. Nevertheless, the issue in the end comes down to a link to Serc, which is where Alkend's vote is, so going back to what I said above, this issue needs to be resolved before it ends up taking up all the comments for the next several days. Is Denul symping a scummy Serc?



Vote Serc

[Shadow]

I am here and getting caught up. Looks like Denul and Serc are drawing the heat. I will take a look in a bit and see who was attempting to symp whom.

[Denul]

 Alkend, on 15 April 2014 - 11:29 AM, said:

Denul's post was not funny. I was not going to post this one but when reading the one below, putting that with Serc's quote of Denul it does feel like signalling.

 Okral Lom, on 14 April 2014 - 04:22 PM, said:

 Denul, on 14 April 2014 - 03:54 PM, said:

Her name is Yuri and she looks like this:

Spoiler

I laughed hard

 Okral Lom, on 14 April 2014 - 04:57 PM, said:

In any case, since people are trying to be serious, I'll chime in on the Serc thing. Seems to me that there are going to be a lot of artifacts in the game design that refer back to how this game could be run as a factions game. In that set up, I could well imagine Kenshiro as some kind of lone warrior/serial killer type. But in a town vs scum game it only takes a second of thought about the game design to see that the scum team must have more than one player.

My guess is that Serc is fishing for role information by posting something obviously wrong and waiting to see who corrects him. Whether that's a townie looking for scum, a symp looking for roled innos or Kenshiro looking for symps, I don't know...

This looks like he is downplaying Serc's play. I am not looking at Serc with "townie" eyes as that would mean him actually playing like a townie and answering questions and not standing out like a sore thumb.

I am still looking at reactions to the heat Serc got because a train has built up elsewhere and Serc was left alone.

Really? Using your own opinion of whether a joke is funny or not as a basis for your accusations? So then since you are the arbiter of what is funny, the 3 other people who all posted laughing responses or equivalent after the joke was made must all be scum, too, right? FFS

Furthermore, I am strongly against your notion of not looking at anyone with "townie" eyes. While you should always be suspicious of everyone, that is not the same as assuming someone is scum and then reading their posts with that assumption in mind. Given how totally random and contradictory things like "leading the thread", "being too smooth", "coasting", "being too agreesive", etc, can and have all been used as markers of scum behaviour, if you assume someone is scum right from the get go you will have no problem seeing what you want to see in all of their posts. Then you lynch them, they come up town, and you assume someone else is scum and read them as such? Good way to lose the game. Like I said, you do have to always be suspicious, but you should actually be reading people WITH your so-called "townie" eyes so that scum behaviour stands out!

[Denul]

 Alkend, on 15 April 2014 - 11:38 AM, said:

Right now I could see Denul and Okral symps to master Serc. I would definitely like the whole thing cleared up.

Vote Serc

Okral defends my joke as being funny, and what do you know Alkend lumps him in with me as another symp to Serc, now

[Denul]

 Tiamatha, on 15 April 2014 - 01:31 PM, said:

 Serc, on 14 April 2014 - 05:00 PM, said:

 Denul, on 14 April 2014 - 03:54 PM, said:

Her name is Yuri and she looks like this:

Spoiler

I love RA2 so much. the Soviet briefing chick was hawt.

this was the post that made me think it was more serc symping Denul.



with
the initial role questioning by serc being interpreted (by me) as a hand wave as if to say 'he kenshiro, you ain't all alone in case you think you are'

then the above making denul take notice of them specifically, saying, I like what you like, get it? Don't kill me cause I can helporz

Now here's Tiam arguing back the other way like MO. Doesn't make a lot of sense, though - I was the one who posted that Kenshiro cannot be alone in the first place! If I was Kenshiro, having posted that, I obviously wouldn't need any symps to pipe up saying "you are not alone" as Tiam thinks Serc was doing.

[Eloth]

I'm here and catching up.

[Denul]

 Alkend, on 15 April 2014 - 01:34 PM, said:

 Denul, on 15 April 2014 - 01:30 PM, said:

Ah yes, of course, it seems that I am most certainly the killer. That I told the town I had allies when they were suggesting I had none. That I highlighted for the town my victory conditions and the implications of them in the game, when the town had already breezed past them. That I made a big obvious call for my symps to reveal themselves to me, that they did in the most blatantly obvious fashion, and that I then somehow still did not realize that is what they were doing.

...

...

Or maybe I was just making a fucking day 1 joke about the theme of the game and you can all go eat a huge fucking bag of dicks.

and we caught you on that joke and if we lynch you and you are scum then we were lucky because it wasn't good town play? Cry me a river.

Do you own a bag of dicks? Figures.

Actually yes, you would in that case be lucky, because who is to say that my joke with Serc's response is clearly scum, while Okral's pants joke and your responses was clearly town? Why not the other way around? What about the George Bush/Palin jokes? If you did lynch me and I CF'd scum you would be lucky that of all the day 1 jokes you luckily latched onto this one for no particular reason.

[Alkend]

 Denul, on 15 April 2014 - 03:11 PM, said:

 Tiamatha, on 15 April 2014 - 01:31 PM, said:

 Serc, on 14 April 2014 - 05:00 PM, said:

 Denul, on 14 April 2014 - 03:54 PM, said:

Her name is Yuri and she looks like this:

Spoiler

I love RA2 so much. the Soviet briefing chick was hawt.

this was the post that made me think it was more serc symping Denul.



with
the initial role questioning by serc being interpreted (by me) as a hand wave as if to say 'he kenshiro, you ain't all alone in case you think you are'

then the above making denul take notice of them specifically, saying, I like what you like, get it? Don't kill me cause I can helporz

Now here's Tiam arguing back the other way like MO. Doesn't make a lot of sense, though - I was the one who posted that Kenshiro cannot be alone in the first place! If I was Kenshiro, having posted that, I obviously wouldn't need any symps to pipe up saying "you are not alone" as Tiam thinks Serc was doing.

Lie.

[Alkend]

 Denul, on 15 April 2014 - 03:11 PM, said:

 Tiamatha, on 15 April 2014 - 01:31 PM, said:

 Serc, on 14 April 2014 - 05:00 PM, said:

 Denul, on 14 April 2014 - 03:54 PM, said:

Her name is Yuri and she looks like this:

Spoiler

I love RA2 so much. the Soviet briefing chick was hawt.

this was the post that made me think it was more serc symping Denul.



with
the initial role questioning by serc being interpreted (by me) as a hand wave as if to say 'he kenshiro, you ain't all alone in case you think you are'

then the above making denul take notice of them specifically, saying, I like what you like, get it? Don't kill me cause I can helporz

Now here's Tiam arguing back the other way like MO. Doesn't make a lot of sense, though - I was the one who posted that Kenshiro cannot be alone in the first place! If I was Kenshiro, having posted that, I obviously wouldn't need any symps to pipe up saying "you are not alone" as Tiam thinks Serc was doing.

To expand on that, Serc is in hot bother for suggesting such a thing and yet you are now claiming it?

[Denul]

 Korabas, on 15 April 2014 - 01:40 PM, said:

Those responses came pretty quick, and both laced with a heavy dose of dick-eating go-fuckyourselfery!

Serc claims that he was merely exploring the possibility of Kenshiro being the only killer. I must have missed that, except of course you ask: "does the Kenshiro guy even have allies to signal him?" This is not asking if there is more than a single killer, this is casting doubt on the fact that there exists more than a single scum ally of Kenshiro.

I don't rally know what to add on Denul.

Wasn't that the whole point of Serc's post? He said that he knew nothing about the manga/anime and from his read of the OP it seemed like Kenshiro was all alone. Which is exactly how the OP reads to me, too, I just happen to know better due to outside knowledge of the theme.

[Alkend]

 Serc, on 14 April 2014 - 03:31 PM, said:

 Eloth, on 14 April 2014 - 03:27 PM, said:

 Rikkter, on 14 April 2014 - 03:03 PM, said:

 Tiamatha, on 14 April 2014 - 02:55 PM, said:

 Rikkter, on 14 April 2014 - 02:00 PM, said:

 Okral Lom, on 14 April 2014 - 01:39 PM, said:

 Rikkter, on 14 April 2014 - 01:34 PM, said:

checking in

I was hoping for more like a 7.2 from you...that was barely a 2.9! /terrible earthquake joke

That is a terrible earthquake joke. It's so bad that it gave me tremors.

signalling?

Are you serious right now?

Isn't this what happened last game?

I'm yet to read the wiki, but does the Kenshiro guy even have allies to signal him? he strikes me as the save the world loner type of guy

 Serc, on 14 April 2014 - 03:42 PM, said:

 Tiamatha, on 14 April 2014 - 03:32 PM, said:

so we're to assume its one guy against 15??

I think that's a bit of a stretch serc, watching you.

meh, last game I played was like that, and D'rek took it down to last day. nothing impossible, if there's no finders.

 Denul, on 14 April 2014 - 03:52 PM, said:

I don't have a lot of time to post today so you probably won't hear from me again for the next few hours at least, but I promise I will give the OP a read at some point

For whomever was speculating about Kenshiro being alone upthread, IIRC he has a girlfriend who is kidnapped by one of the villains but still loves him, so that could be a potential symp role.

[Denul]

 Tiamatha, on 15 April 2014 - 02:18 PM, said:

I can think of several day one signalling cases that have come good for the town.

the very last game we played

one about 5/6 back when Maccy handed the town his scum on a player, so your bag of ducks can go suck on itself

By all means, go find it/quote it and we shall see.

[Denul]

Did you have a followup to that post Alkend?

Because it sure looks to me like you are confirming my point for me...