[Denul]

Well, what is there left to say. I think I've already said it.

Vote Tiam

I won't be back before timeout... and based on others' posting times I am now worried that those who haven't voted yet won't either.

[Tiamatha]

morning.

Not voting for myself obviously

vote Shadow

once again denul seems to be dodging through and no-one else seems overly interested in him. If I get to SH and see he is Kenshiro I will seriously shit a fucking brick and put you all on my list.

[Galayn Lord]

Morning. Taking a half day at work as car troubles still plague me. Not sure how much times left but I gather I need to land a vote?

I'm unsure why we aren't focusing our thoughts here. Again my top candidate is either Shadow or by inverse logic Denul. That old addage smoke means fire applies here. one of them must be scum and while doubt is building on Denul I think Shadow is the obvious choice for me.

Because of time constrains I'm gonna stick with the shadow vote but will post my review of every player as OL suggests we do. If we get some discussion going before Time out I'm around.

Vote Shadow

[Galayn Lord]

Okral Lom, on 25 April 2014 - 02:24 AM, said:

Galayn Lord, on 24 April 2014 - 06:54 PM, said:

Okral Lom, on 24 April 2014 - 04:43 PM, said:

Interesting post I spotted from Denul here (I've snipped some of his discussion of Korabas and Kessobahn):

Denul, on 21 April 2014 - 03:14 AM, said:

Other people-wise, Shadow still looks almost too scummy, while Tiam still pings my scumdar with his manner of always talking like he is pushing a vote but not always following through/responding to rebuttals of his accusations (albeit this was more of a thing days 1 and 2, not as bad day 3). I'd be happy to vote for either of them. On the other hand, a voice in the back of my head whispers "smoooooth" every time I think of Bek, Lock or Okral right now. Lastly, Amp and Rikkter continue to be low in both posts and content.

So there's lots to look at and I hope we can all get right back into the spirit of things after the long weekend break ends. I'm planning to do a full read-up tomorrow night and see what comes out of the woodwork for me. For now, good night!

I like this sort of post because I think it's a good way of gauging someone's thought processes about the other players. As scum, it can be difficult to produce them naturally (particularly if you have knowledge of fellow scum players that you are trying to hide). I would quite like to see this sort of list from other players (as I think it would be helpful), so I'll lead off with my own shortly.

Beyond that statement of appreciation, there are some notable things about Denul's list. First of all, he doesn't mention Eloth or GL at all in this post. Is there a good reason for that? Given that subsequently he was casting doubt on Eloth, we may be able to rule out that he was symping him (although, distancing?). I don't remember any interaction between him and GL though. Of the players he does mention, Ampelas and Rikkter have both bought it, but all the others are still in the game. There is perhaps a slight indication that he is trying to pull attention away from Shadow here (by calling him "almost too scummy"), but nothing to signify a bias towards or away from any of the other players.

In conclusion, I would say that if Denul is a symp, he is either symping GL or Shadow. I have not decided for myself whether I think that's actually what's going on, just throwing that out there as a hypothetical. I'll come up with my own opinion list shortly.


EDIT: Getting the parentheses to match up.

Quite the Cross post from me.

I agree I have not been interacting much with Eloth, though I could say the same of Bek, Rikkter and Ampelas? I just haven't been on as much as the rest of you and only converse with players that question my reasoning or respond to it. The four I've mentioned have avoided engaging my posts and I can't really point as to why? There was no real need to put super scrutiny on those players because they didn't seem to produce content I felt I needed to engage in either but as I say right now Eloth looks pretty pushy this day and looks pretty scummy based solely on behaviour.

Okral Lom, on 24 April 2014 - 04:28 PM, said:

<snip>


I do agree that Denul's behaviour taken at face value has seemed reasonable. However, Tiamatha's point about deflection holds some merit with me - Denul started talking about warlord symps, and this essentially cast doubt on the validity of any investigation into symp connections. I know I stopped looking for that sort of thing as closely once that became the dominant paradigm I was viewing the game through. (Or rather, I didn't really talk about those connections on thread for fear of giving scum unnecessary hints).

That Denul missed me and Eloth is looking dubious in my own perspective against the underlined. There is no reason given and your interpretation of it looks designed to have me setup up alongside the likes of shadow. I cant be sure how to read that jump. Maybe you can help me understand why Denuls ommission of my name in a list weighs so much to you when I was starting to think you felt the opposite and mistrusted Denuls reads. Seems like an about face on your own logic which is a scum-like shift of opinion.

Just noticed this. I'm not quite sure what you're unsure about here. In the first of the posts you quote, I'm speculating that if you were to read Denul's post as that of a symp, then you and Shadow are the two that would make the most sense as masters for him. This does not mean I am convinced that Denul is actually a symp - it's a hypothetical. Does it matter what my overall feelings about Denul's reads and speculation are for the purposes of that hypothetical? I don't see that they do...

Ok first to reply to this:

I'm starting to think Denul distracted us succesfully by raising the issue of warlord symps. I read your post as saying,
Paraphrased: "look, denul suggested warlord symps and this nullified/blunted all symp discussions and connections. How can we trust this wasn't an evasion tactic."

Hence my doubts on Denul at the moment. I think for a post that casts further doubt on Denul in the eyes of the rest of us its strange for you to use Denuls case building ommission to land Shadow, myself and Eloth in a scum category. This is why I'm unsure about the jump. Maybe I'm over sensitive about it but the link you're making looks forced as though you're grasping loose ends to make a case on me specifically. I already said there have been several players I haven't had direct discussion with and if it isn't due to login times its due to my own limited time in game.

Can't see why I'm linked to Eloth when the same reasoning links me to players like Bek Okhan, Rikkter and Ampelas. Even Alkend and I had no dialogue though that counts far less. I've atleast had some dialogue with Eloth and honestly they're high on my list as likely scum this day due to the behaviour switch and further unwarranted talk on warlords. Cannot see how our shared name ommission makes me linked to Eloth and then Shadow. Its not sound reasoning to me.

[Lock]

I think that's 3 Shadow, 2 Tiam? Not sure how much time left but can't be very much if any at all, so

Remove Vote
Vote Shadow

[Lock]

In fact, checking PS' post, looks like we're well past timeout. Annoying, it's not like everyone was splitting the votes, some just didn't even place a vote.

[Okral Lom]

Bek Okhan, on 24 April 2014 - 09:49 PM, said:

Sorry guys, I'm swamped under uni work at the moment. Hopefully I'll have time to catch up tonight, but it's also a long weekend for me this weekend and I'm going away, so I can't promise I'll have time to post much until after the weekend break.

Got up earlier than usual (damn you Mafia!) to see what's going on. Everyone has voted except Bek Okhan, who hasn't been around...hope he gets back in time or we might not make a lynch...


Edit: X-post with Lock hammer

This post has been edited by Okral Lom: 25 April 2014 - 07:50 AM

[Lock]

Eloth didn't vote either, and I think Galayn's vote was past timeout as well, although my morning maths has been known to be iffy.

[Okral Lom]

Lock, on 25 April 2014 - 07:49 AM, said:

Eloth didn't vote either, and I think Galayn's vote was past timeout as well, although my morning maths has been known to be iffy.

Ah yeah, thought I'd counted everyone but you're right, I missed him out. Hope you got the maths wrong...


Anyway, I'm going to go and get some more sleep (nothing more to be done...)

[Galayn Lord]

Okral Lom, on 25 April 2014 - 07:53 AM, said:

Lock, on 25 April 2014 - 07:49 AM, said:

Eloth didn't vote either, and I think Galayn's vote was past timeout as well, although my morning maths has been known to be iffy.

Ah yeah, thought I'd counted everyone but you're right, I missed him out. Hope you got the maths wrong...


Anyway, I'm going to go and get some more sleep (nothing more to be done...)

Crap. Ok I thought I had till 9 to vote. I had my clock set at 8 last night, I thought I had time to read up.

What does this mean for our D-day situation?

[Tiamatha]

wcs its d-day again surely.

[Path-Shaper]

It is Day 5

Day has Timed Out.

8 players are left alive.
5 votes needed to lynch.

Bek Okhan, Denul, Eloth, Galayn Lord, Lock, Okral Lom, Shadow, Tiamatha

Votes that occurred before timeout:

1 vote Lock: Shadow
2 votes Tiam: Denul, Lock
2 votes Shadow: Okral Lom, Tiamatha

Players not voting.

Bek Okhan, Eloth, Galayn Lord


Members of the "Diamond Gang" were discussing their options in an alley after dark.
"Where the hell is that guy, Kenshiro? He kills Raoh and Souther and then f'in disappears!" said a guy with purple spikey hair.

"Shin must know where he is, right?" said the guy with an ancient football helmet on his head.

"Shin don't know nothin'." said a third, who was wearing a battered old breastplate that offered dubious protection value.

"All I know is, I'm getting the f out of this city." said the first, again, "I hear there's a nice city with a cooler climate up North along the dry riverbed."

That's not cold enough," said a new voice. "why don't you try hell?"

Jagi turned his open palm upward and jammed his fingers into the speaker's throat, killing him instantly.

Jagi eyed the others, and turned back to head up the alley.

But at the entrance to the street stood a figure, silhouetted against the trash fires that burned in the distance. It was a figure that Jagi knew well.

"K-K-K-Kenshiro!" Jagi squeaked.

"Jagi..." Kenshiro's calm voice was filled with iron, a strength that spoke of the absolute death that stood behind Kenshiro's Hokuto Shin-ken.

Jagi charged Kenshiro, and just before reaching him, spit the needles from his mouth directly at Kenshiro's eyes.

Kenshiro raised his hand and casually caught all 8 needles between his fingers.

"This one his for Raoh." He slammed his fist into Jagi's chest. "This one's for Souther." Kenshiro whipped a blistering kick upside Jagi's head. "This one's for Yuria." His backfist caught Jagi's momentum, rocketing across his chin.

"And this one's for me. WHAAATTTTA!!!!"

Kenshiro's fist connected with Jagi's face, mashing Jagi's nose and leaving a trail of blood as he pulled his fist back. Kenshiro turned and walked away. After five steps, Jagi's head exploded.

Lock is dead. He was Jagi, and Khell.

It is Day 6.

[Galayn Lord]

Well thats interesting.

Lock didn't come up RI. He had a role and maybe an ability? Does this mean Kenshiro got one of our symps? or accidentally killed his own?

From hokuto.wikia.com:

Quote

Spoiler

Jagi: The second youngest of the four Hokuto brothers, he was looked down on for his dirty tactics which demanded victory at any cost, such as relying on a shotgun or spitting needles. His desire to cheat was only rivalled by his contempt for Kenshiro, his younger adoptive brother. Jagi believed that siblings must respect their elders and that it would be unforgivable for a younger brother to surpass him.Upon hearing that Kenshiro was named successor, an outraged Jagi confronted him and ordered him to step down. When Kenshiro refused, Jagi tried to kill him but was defeated, only to be spared at the last moment. He escaped with a disfigured head, using metal implants to relieve the swelling and adopted a helmet to hide his now hideous face. He exacted his revenge by manipulating Shin of the Nanto Seikeninto defeating Kenshiro and kidnapping his fiancée, Yuria. Shin had secretly loved Yuria, and Jagi convinced him that Kenshiro wasn't worthy of protecting her from the violent wasteland.

The above makes me think not scum symp but town. Pretty sure Locks contributions can be trusted. I'm still happy with my top three, anyone feel differently about theirs?

[Okral Lom]

I'm a proponent of always getting a lynch if at all possible, because it's town's best information gaining mechanism (even if it's not always immediate). But I suppose the no-lynch wasn't the end of the world in the current situation since we had a bit of slack with the even number of players. It was a little irresponsible of Eloth and Bek Okhan not to have left votes down if they knew they weren't going to be around for timeout though.

I agree with GL's view that Lock looks like a roled town player. The wikipedia entry on him was suggestive of the possibility that he was a symp for Shin, but GL's quote makes it seem more like he's a separate entity.

EDIT: Parentheses

This post has been edited by Okral Lom: 25 April 2014 - 01:03 PM

[Denul]

Lock and I were lovers. Give me 1 sec and I'll dig up our coding.

[Denul]

The first letters of the second sentence of a series of consecutive posts spells each others' names, letter-shifted. Posts with only one sentence are skipped.

Lock, on 15 April 2014 - 03:05 PM, said:

That was an interesting read. However, despite all of Denul's posting, I can already sense that this is an issue which is going to run and run throughout the game unless it is resolved, and I'm already tired of it. Alkend may or may not be correct in their suspicions, but either way they appear quite blinkered, dismissing Denul's posting with one-liners here and there. At the same time, Denul's splurging, though it seems at least half-sensible responses, itself raises an eyebrow. Nevertheless, the issue in the end comes down to a link to Serc, which is where Alkend's vote is, so going back to what I said above, this issue needs to be resolved before it ends up taking up all the comments for the next several days. Is Denul symping a scummy Serc?



Vote Serc

Lock, on 15 April 2014 - 03:36 PM, said:

Tiamatha, on 15 April 2014 - 03:32 PM, said:

I'm fairly sure everyone who played the last game is playing now, and you can go suck aforementioned bag of ducks if you think I'm going trawling through 5 or 6 games looking for a quote for you for a claim I've made and another player has confirmed they have remembered.

Don't drag me into this. I also said that one of your claims was incorrect

Lock, on 15 April 2014 - 03:38 PM, said:

Shadow, on 15 April 2014 - 03:36 PM, said:

Denul, on 15 April 2014 - 01:46 PM, said:

Tiamatha, on 14 April 2014 - 02:55 PM, said:

Rikkter, on 14 April 2014 - 02:00 PM, said:

Okral Lom, on 14 April 2014 - 01:39 PM, said:

Rikkter, on 14 April 2014 - 01:34 PM, said:

checking in

I was hoping for more like a 7.2 from you...that was barely a 2.9! /terrible earthquake joke

That is a terrible earthquake joke. It's so bad that it gave me tremors.

signalling?

Hey look, someone uses the phrase "terrible earthquake joke" and then someone else replies to it using the exact same phrasing, and tiam questions it as signaling! Rikkter and me must each be half of the predator Kenshiro!

Why would you suggest that there are paired killers in the game? That just seems like a slip up to me.

Haha lol, is this serious? Really?

Lock, on 15 April 2014 - 03:45 PM, said:

I think something needs to be pointed out here. Yesterday, PS came on to say that by majority he means parity also - so whether Kenshiro is alone or not has not in my mind been proved either way.

Lock, on 15 April 2014 - 05:11 PM, said:

Shadow, you are either not reading the thread as clearly as you might think you are (and your comment on 'some potential symp linkages' suggests that you aren't), or you're wilfully placing a post out of context. Personally, it seems pretty clear to me that that was a non-serious comment. We don't need more things like this muddying up the thread even further.



Edit: Changed 'haven't' to 'aren't'.

[Denul]

The first letters of the second sentence of a series of consecutive posts spells each others' names, letter-shifted. Posts with only one sentence are skipped.

Lock, on 15 April 2014 - 03:05 PM, said:

That was an interesting read. However, despite all of Denul's posting, I can already sense that this is an issue which is going to run and run throughout the game unless it is resolved, and I'm already tired of it. Alkend may or may not be correct in their suspicions, but either way they appear quite blinkered, dismissing Denul's posting with one-liners here and there. At the same time, Denul's splurging, though it seems at least half-sensible responses, itself raises an eyebrow. Nevertheless, the issue in the end comes down to a link to Serc, which is where Alkend's vote is, so going back to what I said above, this issue needs to be resolved before it ends up taking up all the comments for the next several days. Is Denul symping a scummy Serc?



Vote Serc

Lock, on 15 April 2014 - 03:36 PM, said:

Tiamatha, on 15 April 2014 - 03:32 PM, said:

I'm fairly sure everyone who played the last game is playing now, and you can go suck aforementioned bag of ducks if you think I'm going trawling through 5 or 6 games looking for a quote for you for a claim I've made and another player has confirmed they have remembered.

Don't drag me into this. I also said that one of your claims was incorrect

Lock, on 15 April 2014 - 03:38 PM, said:

Shadow, on 15 April 2014 - 03:36 PM, said:

Denul, on 15 April 2014 - 01:46 PM, said:

Tiamatha, on 14 April 2014 - 02:55 PM, said:

Rikkter, on 14 April 2014 - 02:00 PM, said:

Okral Lom, on 14 April 2014 - 01:39 PM, said:

Rikkter, on 14 April 2014 - 01:34 PM, said:

checking in

I was hoping for more like a 7.2 from you...that was barely a 2.9! /terrible earthquake joke

That is a terrible earthquake joke. It's so bad that it gave me tremors.

signalling?

Hey look, someone uses the phrase "terrible earthquake joke" and then someone else replies to it using the exact same phrasing, and tiam questions it as signaling! Rikkter and me must each be half of the predator Kenshiro!

Why would you suggest that there are paired killers in the game? That just seems like a slip up to me.

Haha lol, is this serious? Really?

Lock, on 15 April 2014 - 03:45 PM, said:

I think something needs to be pointed out here. Yesterday, PS came on to say that by majority he means parity also - so whether Kenshiro is alone or not has not in my mind been proved either way.

Lock, on 15 April 2014 - 05:11 PM, said:

Shadow, you are either not reading the thread as clearly as you might think you are (and your comment on 'some potential symp linkages' suggests that you aren't), or you're wilfully placing a post out of context. Personally, it seems pretty clear to me that that was a non-serious comment. We don't need more things like this muddying up the thread even further.



Edit: Changed 'haven't' to 'aren't'.

Denul, on 15 April 2014 - 02:23 PM, said:

Alkend, on 15 April 2014 - 02:16 PM, said:

Erm, Denul I think you have me as your main protagonist for a lynch, when in fact I am voting for Serc. You need to address Monok's case on you. Right now all it seems you are doing is defending Serc further.

I'm getting to it! Find some way to entertain yourself while you wait if you can't stand to read the whole thing.

[Denul]

Denul, on 15 April 2014 - 02:37 PM, said:

Monok Ochem, on 15 April 2014 - 04:52 AM, said:

<s, and aside: fuck these stupid monkey translators, every goddamn MO post is a pain in the ass to quote, effectively dampening his caseworthiness from laziness, not what I would consider good townie play>


Sorry, so here's the the short of it. Master Denul, not Master Serc, is at the heart of this. Here is what the Librarian has ascertained:

Spoiler

Ponder.png

: First of all, Master Denul announced himself in the standard, provocative manner. Interestingly enough, as the Librarian pointed out, this manner quickly degenerates into base tomfoolery, making light of the last game's fake signalling, and a humorous switchero with a male picture where there ought to have been a more, er, beautiful lady. The quote (third below in the amazing MultiQuote device) that bothered him and myself the most was a comment about absence, not reading the OP, and speculation on a "symp" girlfriend. Quite the post for someone seemingly unengaged. Then Master Serc seems to "signal" closely followed by Master Korabas, and then it all just falls apart from there. But it comes back to Master Denul, don't you see? Master Denul's seemingly simple and easy going posts seems flippant, maybe even elusive, especially in context.


<s>

Denul, on 14 April 2014 - 03:52 PM, said:

I don't have a lot of time to post today so you probably won't hear from me again for the next few hours at least, but I promise I will give the OP a read at some point

For whomever was speculating about Kenshiro being alone upthread, IIRC he has a girlfriend who is kidnapped by one of the villains but still loves him, so that could be a potential symp role.

<s>

So two posts after MO pleads for a re-focus from Korabas onto the scum master Serc, he changes his mind again and now wants to re-focus on me. I find his reasoning outrageously stupid and hypocritical though:

1. "First of all, Master Denul announced himself in the standard, provocative manner." --> uh, I said "checking in" how in the fuck is that either provocative or scummy?

2. "Interestingly enough, as the Librarian pointed out, this manner quickly degenerates into base tomfoolery, making light of the last game's fake signalling, and a humorous switchero with a male picture where there ought to have been a more, er, beautiful lady." Oh noes I made a joke on day 1 and engaged in "tomfoolery"... oh wait you're the one fucking posting ooks and aaaks with a bunch of spoilered discworld pictures, which is far far more 'tomfoolery' than me. And yet you want this case to be taken seriously?


3. "The quote that bothered him and myself the most was a comment about absence, not reading the OP, and speculation on a "symp" girlfriend. Quite the post for someone seemingly unengaged." Does-not-have-a-lot-of-time-to-post is not at all the same as unengaged. I only had two 30-minute chunks to post in at first, but I provided information from my memory about the theme, pointed out something in the OP that aided the current mechanics discussion and made an educated speculation on the scum team makeup (as well as several jokes, yes). You, on the other hand, spent your entire first several hours of the game just making stupid fucking oookk posts just to be annoying and then flip-flopped between crappy symp-master accusations within 10 seconds. So who is really "unengaged" ?


4. "Then Master Serc seems to "signal" closely followed by Master Korabas, and then it all just falls apart from there. But it comes back to Master Denul, don't you see? Master Denul's seemingly simple and easy going posts seems flippant, maybe even elusive, especially in context." unlike your horde of ookk posts that are neither flippant, nor elusive, right? But nevermind that. Why wouldn't my posts be "simple and easy going" ? You say this like it is soooo terrible and scummy, but when have simple and easy going posts on day 1 ever been considered a marker for scum?

Denul, on 15 April 2014 - 02:44 PM, said:

Korabas, on 15 April 2014 - 05:23 AM, said:

I decided to look into Denul based on Monok's post. Denul does avoid the Serc symp case, but he does not defend Serc's mistake (his claim that there is only one scum).

Denul, on 14 April 2014 - 06:09 PM, said:

Path-Shaper, on 11 April 2014 - 02:07 PM, said:

Victory Conditions

Town: Eliminate Kenshiro

Scum: Achieve majority OR Kenshiro kills the 3 warlords. If a warlord is lynched, it does not count toward this VC, which becomes null.

This makes me think that there are other scum roles beyond Kenshiro.

Denul, on 14 April 2014 - 06:53 PM, said:

...also the second part of that scum VC definitely makes it seem like Kenshiro is the only killer - no other scum kills/vigs nor is he partnered with anyone (though he could still have a lover but not be partnered) - since it only talks about Kenshiro killing the warlords or them being lynched. I could see a town vig being present without murkying up that scum VC too much, but any other scum kills/vigs beyond Kenshiro would get into too much cross-interpretation of the OP if they killed a warlord to be included in this game.

These comments, if anything, make Serc's mistake more evident. If there is some sympage going on here, either:

1) It is non-applicable
2) Denul missed it
3) Denul is distancing himself from Serc without directly addressing the issue.

Okay, now here's Korabas chiming in. Waaaay over-thinking it. Simply put, while I was still online Serc's post was a one-off question/speculation and I didn't see anything wrong with it. Tiam questioned it as more signaling, like she had already done for 3 other posts prior, so that didn't hold much flak. People only started making a big deal about it after I was gone. I didn't need to deliberately ignore it or dismiss it because it wasn't even in my thoughts at all. It was simply Serc posits an idea, I told him he was wrong from my knowledge of the theme, and that was it, done. IMHO, any additional focusing on it at that time would've been far more scummy behaviour. Obviously some people disagree and think that Serc's speculative query was the absolute height of scumminess but I didn't and at the time there was no reason to look at it further.

Denul, on 15 April 2014 - 03:01 PM, said:

Alkend, on 15 April 2014 - 11:18 AM, said:

Denul, on 14 April 2014 - 03:52 PM, said:

I don't have a lot of time to post today so you probably won't hear from me again for the next few hours at least, but I promise I will give the OP a read at some point

For whomever was speculating about Kenshiro being alone upthread, IIRC he has a girlfriend who is kidnapped by one of the villains but still loves him, so that could be a potential symp role.

Right so first there is Denul. I have underlined this because there are 4 posts directly above his post quoting Serc. I cannot see how Denul does not know that Serc was the one who made the comment.

So how else could I read this post by Denul "for Serc I am that girl, ie I am your symp"

It really does read that way to me.

Here's where Alkend starts getting into the mix on me, though arguing that I am the symp and Serc is the master now. Even then, I am not going to let it slide as he suggested because I am not scum at all, neither Kenshiro nor symp nor any other scum role. I will defend against any such accusations, even if there are worse ones floating around, too. To do otherwise is how you get the thread all wrongly believing you are a symp and misreading everything you say for the next 3 days, which is not helpful to town at all.

F I W E >>>shift 6 letters right>>> LOCK

H I R Y P >>>shift 4 letters left>>> DENUL

[Okral Lom]

The unfortunate part of the no lynch is that we didn't advance the conversation significantly. I guess we can have a look through Lock's posts and see if there's anything to be teased from them beyond the WIFOM that surrounds NKs, but I'm not particularly hopeful that it will add much to the discussion.

In the meantime, it would be great to hear everyone's opinions about the remaining players. I really think it will help us weed out inconsistencies.

EDIT: X-Post

This post has been edited by Okral Lom: 25 April 2014 - 01:25 PM

[Okral Lom]

OK, initial impression of Denul's reveal is that the coding looks pretty solid to me. The posts quoted have the hallmarks of being twisted to have the appropriate letters at the start. Any reason for the specific values of the rotation cipher? (eg. 6 left/4 right)