[Serc]

Denul, on 15 April 2014 - 07:50 PM, said:

Has Kessobahn even checked in yet?

yes. with the math equation post

[Serc]

serves me right replying b4 scrolling down

welp, looks like I'm gonna get the chop. I'm too macho to self-vote, so I'll vote the person pinging my gut-based radar




vote Okral Lom

[Kessobahn]

Kessobahn, on 15 April 2014 - 08:11 PM, said:

Okral Lom, on 15 April 2014 - 08:00 PM, said:

Was reading through on the train and realised just how little time we have left.



Remove Vote

Vote Serc

At this point he and Denul are the only viable candidates, and after rereading the case on Denul I can't bring myself to vote for that travesty.

Why 'travesty'? I'm on page 5 and Denul looks slightly scummier to me than Serc.

Ok nvm. I see Denul is making a defense.

[Eloth]

Monok Ochem, on 15 April 2014 - 08:10 PM, said:

Galayn Lord, on 15 April 2014 - 07:41 PM, said:

Monok Ochem, on 15 April 2014 - 06:39 PM, said:

NARRATOR: (COMING OUT OF CHARACTER) META IS NOT ALLOWED IN MAFIA GAMES OF RANDOMLY-ALTED DESIGN. ATTEMPTING TO DERAIL AND/OR THROW ASPERSION ON A CASE DUE TO META IS REPREHENSIBLE AND AT MINIMUM POOR FORM. IF YOU SUSPECT THIS CASE TO BE ANYTHING BUT IN ERNEST, TAKE IT UP WITH PATHSHAPER IN YOUR PM'S, NOT ON THREAD.

Noted.

Not at all derailing. Simply saying I wish to be certain of Denul. Several things about my read of him seem odd.

Will take it up with PS off-thread.

I already stated when I voted Serc that I'm happier moving on if its possible to remove doubt and find a more definate case. Are you ok leaving Serc be? personally I get nothing concrete from a Denul CF without a lynch to review but I am in no way opposed to it. It makes alot of sense, my gut is the only thing holding me back.

Sercs CF may offer more info about players outside the Denul, Serc duo. Both Serc and denul have said things that contradict each other and contradict themselves. If theres a link I'm seeing Serc as the less threatening but more pivotal player? If you see this as a defence of Denul then you are mistaken. I'd rather deal with Denul Day 2 rather than deal with Serc day 2 purely based on confusion around Denuls content vs the simplicity of Sercs.

I personally thought Serc was a distraction. Here's the thing: what bothered me early on was how a case was building on Serc for symping, despite the well-known adage "lynch the master not the symp." I was similarly surprised that nothing had been said about Denul, and endeavored to make a case. Unfortunately, Denul plays like most do, townie through and through, with many elements we've come to see and love about those we think we can trust. Most telling, however, was how viciously Deul reacted to the accusations and the the subsequent biting sarcasms, pointing out "oh look signalling! oh look more signalling" and then making the bipolar switch to being helpful. And Denul has definitely seemed helpful, doing rereads, posting vote counts, keeping track of how long of the day is left. Townie, right?

As for Korabas, Korabas was a poorly done symp case, trying to lend weight behind the burgeoning case on Serc. The reason I felt suspicious of this case was that it addressed Serc without even acknowledging Denul's attachment to that group. And then we spend today piling up on Serc, who is being called a symp, still, and expecting Denul to be cleared? That just doesn't make any sense to me. So I think, really, there is a lot of deflection and scrambling going on, and that even if Serc is a symp, we will gain nothing from lynching him. Instead, Denul will just have that much more "told you so" and will disappear into the post lynch haze of day 2.

Ok, I think you are really off in this post. The Korabas symp case on Serc definitely mentioned Denul - in fact, he said it was blatant sympage but he wasn't sure if Serc was worth a vote, etc, etc. The day went on. Of course I agree about voting the master and not the symp - and the reason Serc eventually came back around (I was suspicious when it died off for a bit) was that Serc seemed like he was the one fishing for allies, as if he was the master and didn't know his symps, not what you are describing. Am I totally off here? I obviously don't have time to go back and reread it all but this was my understanding of how it played out.

[Ampelas]

Serc, on 15 April 2014 - 08:22 PM, said:

serves me right replying b4 scrolling down

welp, looks like I'm gonna get the chop. I'm too macho to self-vote, so I'll vote the person pinging my gut-based radar




vote Okral Lom

Hate to say it but read the OP, you can't.

Vote Serc

[Eloth]

Serc, on 15 April 2014 - 08:22 PM, said:

serves me right replying b4 scrolling down

welp, looks like I'm gonna get the chop. I'm too macho to self-vote, so I'll vote the person pinging my gut-based radar




vote Okral Lom

It's also against the rules per the OP.

[Monok Ochem]

Okral Lom, on 14 April 2014 - 10:07 PM, said:

Korabas, on 14 April 2014 - 09:46 PM, said:

Checking in. I apparently missed the spam part of day 1. Not too bothered really.

There might be something to the Serc situation. After one of you picks at Serc's wording with regards to the Kenshiro's role, and possibly looking for symps, serc posts:

Serc, on 14 April 2014 - 05:00 PM, said:

I love RA2 so much. the Soviet briefing chick was hawt.

Now this might be the most blatant signalling to Denul. I find it rather more likely, as one of you mentioned, that the obvious question posed by serc is probably an attempt to draw out some kind of reaction and stir the pot a bit. Serc's worth watching, but not really worth a vote at this point. Too early day 1, too thin of a case.

Also, that game was great.

First you pick out a Serc post that expresses his appreciation for RA2, and you claim that by doing so he is signalling. OK, fair enough that does at least seem plausible.

But then, you proceed to do exactly what Serc just did (talk about how much you liked RA2), having just made the point that doing that implies signalling. It feels as though you were subtly trying to imply that you are a symp: look at me, I just did this behaviour that I claim means I'm signalling!

I think maybe you were trying to catch someone's attention. It could be anyone - possibly Denul (since he made the original RA2 reference), possibly just someone else in the crowd. Since I'm not sure who, I think I'll just get the ball rolling with a vote on you.

Vote Korabas

If you mean the underlined, then you must mean about Denul being thrown in with "anyone."

[Shadow]

Is my vote needed for the lynch?

[Eloth]

Ok, time is up and I've said my piece, so I'm gonna vote. This should be the hammer if I'm not mistaken.

Vote Serc

[Monok Ochem]

Eloth, on 15 April 2014 - 08:23 PM, said:

Monok Ochem, on 15 April 2014 - 08:10 PM, said:

Galayn Lord, on 15 April 2014 - 07:41 PM, said:

Monok Ochem, on 15 April 2014 - 06:39 PM, said:

NARRATOR: (COMING OUT OF CHARACTER) META IS NOT ALLOWED IN MAFIA GAMES OF RANDOMLY-ALTED DESIGN. ATTEMPTING TO DERAIL AND/OR THROW ASPERSION ON A CASE DUE TO META IS REPREHENSIBLE AND AT MINIMUM POOR FORM. IF YOU SUSPECT THIS CASE TO BE ANYTHING BUT IN ERNEST, TAKE IT UP WITH PATHSHAPER IN YOUR PM'S, NOT ON THREAD.

Noted.

Not at all derailing. Simply saying I wish to be certain of Denul. Several things about my read of him seem odd.

Will take it up with PS off-thread.

I already stated when I voted Serc that I'm happier moving on if its possible to remove doubt and find a more definate case. Are you ok leaving Serc be? personally I get nothing concrete from a Denul CF without a lynch to review but I am in no way opposed to it. It makes alot of sense, my gut is the only thing holding me back.

Sercs CF may offer more info about players outside the Denul, Serc duo. Both Serc and denul have said things that contradict each other and contradict themselves. If theres a link I'm seeing Serc as the less threatening but more pivotal player? If you see this as a defence of Denul then you are mistaken. I'd rather deal with Denul Day 2 rather than deal with Serc day 2 purely based on confusion around Denuls content vs the simplicity of Sercs.

I personally thought Serc was a distraction. Here's the thing: what bothered me early on was how a case was building on Serc for symping, despite the well-known adage "lynch the master not the symp." I was similarly surprised that nothing had been said about Denul, and endeavored to make a case. Unfortunately, Denul plays like most do, townie through and through, with many elements we've come to see and love about those we think we can trust. Most telling, however, was how viciously Deul reacted to the accusations and the the subsequent biting sarcasms, pointing out "oh look signalling! oh look more signalling" and then making the bipolar switch to being helpful. And Denul has definitely seemed helpful, doing rereads, posting vote counts, keeping track of how long of the day is left. Townie, right?

As for Korabas, Korabas was a poorly done symp case, trying to lend weight behind the burgeoning case on Serc. The reason I felt suspicious of this case was that it addressed Serc without even acknowledging Denul's attachment to that group. And then we spend today piling up on Serc, who is being called a symp, still, and expecting Denul to be cleared? That just doesn't make any sense to me. So I think, really, there is a lot of deflection and scrambling going on, and that even if Serc is a symp, we will gain nothing from lynching him. Instead, Denul will just have that much more "told you so" and will disappear into the post lynch haze of day 2.

Ok, I think you are really off in this post. The Korabas symp case on Serc definitely mentioned Denul - in fact, he said it was blatant sympage but he wasn't sure if Serc was worth a vote, etc, etc. The day went on. Of course I agree about voting the master and not the symp - and the reason Serc eventually came back around (I was suspicious when it died off for a bit) was that Serc seemed like he was the one fishing for allies, as if he was the master and didn't know his symps, not what you are describing. Am I totally off here? I obviously don't have time to go back and reread it all but this was my understanding of how it played out.

My problem is, since when do masters go fishing for symps? It makes no sense. Symps most often get their masters in trouble, not the other way around.

[Serc]

Ampelas, on 15 April 2014 - 08:23 PM, said:

Serc, on 15 April 2014 - 08:22 PM, said:

serves me right replying b4 scrolling down

welp, looks like I'm gonna get the chop. I'm too macho to self-vote, so I'll vote the person pinging my gut-based radar




vote Okral Lom

Hate to say it but read the OP, you can't.

Vote Serc

Eloth, on 15 April 2014 - 08:24 PM, said:

Serc, on 15 April 2014 - 08:22 PM, said:

serves me right replying b4 scrolling down

welp, looks like I'm gonna get the chop. I'm too macho to self-vote, so I'll vote the person pinging my gut-based radar




vote Okral Lom

It's also against the rules per the OP.

Thank you for ruining the joke

Path-Shaper, on 11 April 2014 - 02:07 PM, said:

Game specific rules:

REVEALS OF IDENTITY ARE STRICTLY FORBIDDEN. Reveals of abilities, real or fake, are allowed.

Because everyone in the Hokuto world is bulging with self-confidence, Self-voting is not allowed, even "to get a lynch".

Days are 32 hours, nights are instant. (Martial artists must be immediately decisive)

Victory Conditions

Town: Eliminate Kenshiro

Scum: Achieve majority OR Kenshiro kills the 3 warlords. If a warlord is lynched, it does not count toward this VC, which becomes null.

italics added for emphasis

[Shadow]

9 votes to lynch, 8 to go to night.

1 vote for Okral Lom : Serc
3 votes Denul: Monok Ochem, Bek Okhan, Shadow
9 votes Serc: Alkend, Korabas, Lock, Denul, Galayn Lord, Okral Lom, Tiamatha,Ampelas,Eloth

Players not voted: Ampelas, Kessobahn, Rikkter, Ruse


That is a lynch

[Kessobahn]

Eloth, on 15 April 2014 - 08:33 PM, said:

Ok, time is up and I've said my piece, so I'm gonna vote. This should be the hammer if I'm not mistaken.

Vote Serc

Just in case:

Vote Serc

[Bek Okhan]

Okral Lom, on 15 April 2014 - 07:32 PM, said:

Alright, I've had a thread read and had a think, and unfortunately it's looking like a Denul or Serc lynch today. I don't think either of them rate out as any more than an average candidate (by which I mean essentially they've suffered from the luck of the draw).

That being said, they've been discussed to death and that discussion is not particularly interesting, so I'm going to point out a few things about some of the other players instead.

I'll start off with the player who interests me most at the moment: Monoch Ochem (henceforth MO). And that's not just for the Librarian RP.

I made an (admittedly weak) case on Korabas, and was immediately met by two responses from someone other than Korabas (which seemed surprising). There was a query about my logic from Bek Okhan (henceforth BO) and a surprisingly vigorous rubbishing from Monoch Ochem (henceforth MO). BO's interest seemed legit, but MO put quite a bit of time into attempting to disparage all those associated with the case:

Here he is initially (I've snipped the flavour text and the pictures for clarity) implying that the aggressive players (at that point myself and Tiamatha) are over-stepping their bounds:

Monok Ochem, on 15 April 2014 - 01:35 AM, said:

What the Librarian is trying to say is that the response to the vote on Master Korabas was a little sudden and aggressive. The Librarian is not so sure that at this stage of Day 1 "antics" such a case should garner such heat.
:
Now Librarian, I also thought that Master Tiamatha also seemed particularly aggressive as well...
:
What I'm saying is that Master Tiamatha seems to be jumping the musket, so to speak.

And again trying to sow suspicion on those who hold any weight in my case on Korabas:

Monok Ochem, on 15 April 2014 - 04:34 AM, said:

Now, what he wanted to express is that from the history of past games, signalling cases are kind of in a hang up, so to speak. They can't be discounted because of a couple of games back, but given that bloke Tatt's show last game, we all have to be wary. Now, seems to me, and the Librarian, that there is two sides to this coin, so to speak. We got a group really looking mean and hard into that Serc fellow, but harder in to his so called "symp" Korabas, or maybe that was Denul being the ringleader, I'm already getting turned around.
:
But here's the thing gentlemen: that Korabas fellow puts a little too much weightiness on the Serc "situation" to be trying to interrupt the show. The lack of conviction in that wishy-washy post itself is the problem, and I'll bet bananas to peanuts that the people playing up that post are more trouble than the guy posting the post himself.
:
So the question I have is why are we arsing about spending so much bloody time or Korabas when if he's the so-called symp, we ought to be focusing on Serc! I think this is all smoke and mirrors, and really, we ought to be testing by stringing up that Serc fellow, or maybe one of the supposedly upright citizens trying so valiantly to make a case on them!

So that's two posts devoted to making sure that the Korabas case is buried. In the process of doing so, he finds himself saying we should lynch Serc instead, despite previously making disparaging comments about the motives of Tiamatha in starting the case in the first place.

Then we come to his case on Denul. It seems to consist wholly of the over-aggressive clutching at straws Tiamatha and myself employed earlier. Here is the text of his argument - again I have snipped out the RP and the quoted posts themselves, which he doesn't analyze properly:

Monok Ochem, on 15 April 2014 - 04:52 AM, said:

Master Denul announced himself in the standard, provocative manner. Interestingly enough, as the Librarian pointed out, this manner quickly degenerates into base tomfoolery, making light of the last game's fake signalling, and a humorous switchero with a male picture where there ought to have been a more, er, beautiful lady. The quote (third below in the amazing MultiQuote device) that bothered him and myself the most was a comment about absence, not reading the OP, and speculation on a "symp" girlfriend. Quite the post for someone seemingly unengaged. Then Master Serc seems to "signal" closely followed by Master Korabas, and then it all just falls apart from there. But it comes back to Master Denul, don't you see? Master Denul's seemingly simple and easy going posts seems flippant, maybe even elusive, especially in context.
:
(QUOTED POSTS)
:
Vote Denul.

Now, let's get to the meat of that case...oh wait, there isn't any. An inconsistency in seriousness between posts is possibly the flimsiest argument constructed this year.

So basically MO's play last night was an inconsistent mess that he hid behind his posting style. He was very strongly trying to rebut and discredit arguments against another player (Korabas) by dismissing others as aggressive, but then turned around and posted one of the most powderpuff cases in the history of powderpuff cases! And somehow it worked.

So MO and by extension Korabas are the players I find the most suspicious at this point and I will be looking at them with a fine-tooth comb tomorrow.

I'm not sure I appreciate being BO

However, this post perfectly explains for I feel about MO. He seems to have blinkers on, determined to paint any action of Denul's as scummy, without much reference what Denul actually says.

For now, I want a lynch, so I will

Remove vote

Vote Serc

Edit: just seen that my vote isn't needed. Ah well.

[Rikkter]

I will be around for almost an hour to vote

I have no preference, as I am not up to speed enough to have conviction toward the cases I have seen

[Rikkter]

And 20 minutes worth of posts appear at once?

[Ampelas]

Bek Okhan, on 15 April 2014 - 08:39 PM, said:

Okral Lom, on 15 April 2014 - 07:32 PM, said:

Alright, I've had a thread read and had a think, and unfortunately it's looking like a Denul or Serc lynch today. I don't think either of them rate out as any more than an average candidate (by which I mean essentially they've suffered from the luck of the draw).

That being said, they've been discussed to death and that discussion is not particularly interesting, so I'm going to point out a few things about some of the other players instead.

I'll start off with the player who interests me most at the moment: Monoch Ochem (henceforth MO). And that's not just for the Librarian RP.

I made an (admittedly weak) case on Korabas, and was immediately met by two responses from someone other than Korabas (which seemed surprising). There was a query about my logic from Bek Okhan (henceforth BO) and a surprisingly vigorous rubbishing from Monoch Ochem (henceforth MO). BO's interest seemed legit, but MO put quite a bit of time into attempting to disparage all those associated with the case:

Here he is initially (I've snipped the flavour text and the pictures for clarity) implying that the aggressive players (at that point myself and Tiamatha) are over-stepping their bounds:

Monok Ochem, on 15 April 2014 - 01:35 AM, said:

What the Librarian is trying to say is that the response to the vote on Master Korabas was a little sudden and aggressive. The Librarian is not so sure that at this stage of Day 1 "antics" such a case should garner such heat.
:
Now Librarian, I also thought that Master Tiamatha also seemed particularly aggressive as well...
:
What I'm saying is that Master Tiamatha seems to be jumping the musket, so to speak.

And again trying to sow suspicion on those who hold any weight in my case on Korabas:

Monok Ochem, on 15 April 2014 - 04:34 AM, said:

Now, what he wanted to express is that from the history of past games, signalling cases are kind of in a hang up, so to speak. They can't be discounted because of a couple of games back, but given that bloke Tatt's show last game, we all have to be wary. Now, seems to me, and the Librarian, that there is two sides to this coin, so to speak. We got a group really looking mean and hard into that Serc fellow, but harder in to his so called "symp" Korabas, or maybe that was Denul being the ringleader, I'm already getting turned around.
:
But here's the thing gentlemen: that Korabas fellow puts a little too much weightiness on the Serc "situation" to be trying to interrupt the show. The lack of conviction in that wishy-washy post itself is the problem, and I'll bet bananas to peanuts that the people playing up that post are more trouble than the guy posting the post himself.
:
So the question I have is why are we arsing about spending so much bloody time or Korabas when if he's the so-called symp, we ought to be focusing on Serc! I think this is all smoke and mirrors, and really, we ought to be testing by stringing up that Serc fellow, or maybe one of the supposedly upright citizens trying so valiantly to make a case on them!

So that's two posts devoted to making sure that the Korabas case is buried. In the process of doing so, he finds himself saying we should lynch Serc instead, despite previously making disparaging comments about the motives of Tiamatha in starting the case in the first place.

Then we come to his case on Denul. It seems to consist wholly of the over-aggressive clutching at straws Tiamatha and myself employed earlier. Here is the text of his argument - again I have snipped out the RP and the quoted posts themselves, which he doesn't analyze properly:

Monok Ochem, on 15 April 2014 - 04:52 AM, said:

Master Denul announced himself in the standard, provocative manner. Interestingly enough, as the Librarian pointed out, this manner quickly degenerates into base tomfoolery, making light of the last game's fake signalling, and a humorous switchero with a male picture where there ought to have been a more, er, beautiful lady. The quote (third below in the amazing MultiQuote device) that bothered him and myself the most was a comment about absence, not reading the OP, and speculation on a "symp" girlfriend. Quite the post for someone seemingly unengaged. Then Master Serc seems to "signal" closely followed by Master Korabas, and then it all just falls apart from there. But it comes back to Master Denul, don't you see? Master Denul's seemingly simple and easy going posts seems flippant, maybe even elusive, especially in context.
:
(QUOTED POSTS)
:
Vote Denul.

Now, let's get to the meat of that case...oh wait, there isn't any. An inconsistency in seriousness between posts is possibly the flimsiest argument constructed this year.

So basically MO's play last night was an inconsistent mess that he hid behind his posting style. He was very strongly trying to rebut and discredit arguments against another player (Korabas) by dismissing others as aggressive, but then turned around and posted one of the most powderpuff cases in the history of powderpuff cases! And somehow it worked.

So MO and by extension Korabas are the players I find the most suspicious at this point and I will be looking at them with a fine-tooth comb tomorrow.

I'm not sure I appreciate being BO

However, this post perfectly explains for I feel about MO. He seems to have blinkers on, determined to paint any action of Denul's as scummy, without much reference what Denul actually says.

For now, I want a lynch, so I will

Remove vote

Vote Serc

Edit: just seen that my vote isn't needed. Ah well.

Agreed on MO as well.

[Ampelas]

Rikkter, on 15 April 2014 - 08:43 PM, said:

And 20 minutes worth of posts appear at once?

F5 fail?

[Rikkter]

I didn't think I had the reply box open that long, it was like 4 or 5 votes last I looked

[Lock]

Monok Ochem, on 15 April 2014 - 07:59 PM, said:

NARRATOR: Given the lack of appreciation for Role-Playing this group of mafia players have expressed, the Librarian and his cohort have been sent home, leaving me to my own devices without their quirky, if not astute, help. That being said, several of you are grumpy sods.

I refer you to this game Denul, where an overhelpfulness led to the lynch (and relynch and relynch) of our beloved Mess: http://forum.malazan...the-timestream/

I would also ask you how you would have caught the lead scum last game (OH WAIT! you didn't, nobody did).

I normally love RP in mafia, but if it's in the context of the game. Yours was not.