[Korabas]

Those responses came pretty quick, and both laced with a heavy dose of dick-eating go-fuckyourselfery!

Serc claims that he was merely exploring the possibility of Kenshiro being the only killer. I must have missed that, except of course you ask: "does the Kenshiro guy even have allies to signal him?" This is not asking if there is more than a single killer, this is casting doubt on the fact that there exists more than a single scum ally of Kenshiro.

I don't rally know what to add on Denul.

[Denul]

Alkend, on 15 April 2014 - 01:34 PM, said:

Denul, on 15 April 2014 - 01:30 PM, said:

Ah yes, of course, it seems that I am most certainly the killer. That I told the town I had allies when they were suggesting I had none. That I highlighted for the town my victory conditions and the implications of them in the game, when the town had already breezed past them. That I made a big obvious call for my symps to reveal themselves to me, that they did in the most blatantly obvious fashion, and that I then somehow still did not realize that is what they were doing.

...

...

Or maybe I was just making a fucking day 1 joke about the theme of the game and you can all go eat a huge fucking bag of dicks.

and we caught you on that joke and if we lynch you and you are scum then we were lucky because it wasn't good town play? Cry me a river.

Do you own a bag of dicks? Figures.

By all means, go find me an example of when we've ever caught scum with a signaling case as blatant, obvious and stupid as this case you're proposing.

[Denul]

Alkend, on 15 April 2014 - 01:35 PM, said:

Instead of whinging about it Denul, what are your thoughts on Serc?

Yeah yeah, I just skimmed to here. I'll go do a dkt-style catchup.

[Denul]

Tiamatha, on 14 April 2014 - 02:55 PM, said:

Rikkter, on 14 April 2014 - 02:00 PM, said:

Okral Lom, on 14 April 2014 - 01:39 PM, said:

Rikkter, on 14 April 2014 - 01:34 PM, said:

checking in

I was hoping for more like a 7.2 from you...that was barely a 2.9! /terrible earthquake joke

That is a terrible earthquake joke. It's so bad that it gave me tremors.

signalling?

Hey look, someone uses the phrase "terrible earthquake joke" and then someone else replies to it using the exact same phrasing, and tiam questions it as signaling! Rikkter and me must each be half of the predator Kenshiro!

[Denul]

Alkend, on 14 April 2014 - 02:57 PM, said:

Okral Lom, on 14 April 2014 - 02:48 PM, said:

Alkend, on 14 April 2014 - 02:45 PM, said:

Okral Lom, on 14 April 2014 - 02:38 PM, said:

This political cartoon implies they do sometimes: http://z.about.com/d...ear-sb0916d.jpg

You can put lipstick on the elephant and guess what?

Such a silly poster.

The impression I get is that this was because of something Sarah Palin said at one point. So yeah, it's going to be a bit silly .

I think the award goes to Mr Bush for being the silliest person ever to grace American politics, would you agree?

You can reply with this image if you like..

Spoiler

I saw the advert on youtube yesterday.

My link

Hey look, Alkend does the same "here is a picture of someone" and swaps it, just like me! Except Alkend's was in reply to Okral. So does that make Alkend my left leg and Okral my right fist?!

[Okral Lom]

Denul, I hope you're not going to go through the whole thread pointing out every possible instance of signalling. It's really not helpful in the slightest. If you think signalling cases are useless, then fine, you've made that clear. So go make a case that doesn't involve signalling instead, rather than just spamming the thread.

[Denul]

Alkend, on 14 April 2014 - 03:35 PM, said:

Serc, on 14 April 2014 - 03:31 PM, said:

Eloth, on 14 April 2014 - 03:27 PM, said:

Rikkter, on 14 April 2014 - 03:03 PM, said:

Tiamatha, on 14 April 2014 - 02:55 PM, said:

Rikkter, on 14 April 2014 - 02:00 PM, said:

Okral Lom, on 14 April 2014 - 01:39 PM, said:

Rikkter, on 14 April 2014 - 01:34 PM, said:

checking in

I was hoping for more like a 7.2 from you...that was barely a 2.9! /terrible earthquake joke

That is a terrible earthquake joke. It's so bad that it gave me tremors.

signalling?

Are you serious right now?

Isn't this what happened last game?

I'm yet to read the wiki, but does the Kenshiro guy even have allies to signal him? he strikes me as the save the world loner type of guy

The more I read this, the more I find the sentence dodgy.

Underlined reads to me like Kenshiro asking allies to come forward.

Okay, so the real case starts here, it seems. Serc sees a bunch of tentative signaling accusations from Tiam and then further arguing about whether things are signalling or not, and Serc questions whether Kenshiro would even have allies or not because he's unfamiliar with the theme. Alkend finds this 'dodgy', and therefore also finds it 'dodgy' that I don't comment on this at all. I don't see why I would have, it's a perfectly valid query, IMO, and I don't read it as Kenshiro calling for symps to reveal themselves (something that traditionally is rarely a good idea as a killer anyways because it is risky and plus you can avoid NKing your symps by simply not killing those who deflect away from you). And while Serc is wrong about the theme, I don't disagree that the OP makes it seem like Kenshiro could be all by himself.

[Denul]

Okral Lom, on 15 April 2014 - 01:50 PM, said:

Denul, I hope you're not going to go through the whole thread pointing out every possible instance of signalling. It's really not helpful in the slightest. If you think signalling cases are useless, then fine, you've made that clear. So go make a case that doesn't involve signalling instead, rather than just spamming the thread.

Oh c'mon, do you really think I would do that? How would annoying everyone that much be helpful to my defense? You should know me better than that. My point is made, I'm doing the actual responses progressively now.

[Denul]

Denul, on 14 April 2014 - 03:52 PM, said:

I don't have a lot of time to post today so you probably won't hear from me again for the next few hours at least, but I promise I will give the OP a read at some point

For whomever was speculating about Kenshiro being alone upthread, IIRC he has a girlfriend who is kidnapped by one of the villains but still loves him, so that could be a potential symp role.

The bit about eventually reading the OP is what we call a joke. That may seem obvious, but some of the comments I saw today seem to think this needs clarification :sigh:

[Denul]

Okral Lom, on 14 April 2014 - 04:57 PM, said:

In any case, since people are trying to be serious, I'll chime in on the Serc thing. Seems to me that there are going to be a lot of artifacts in the game design that refer back to how this game could be run as a factions game. In that set up, I could well imagine Kenshiro as some kind of lone warrior/serial killer type. But in a town vs scum game it only takes a second of thought about the game design to see that the scum team must have more than one player.

My guess is that Serc is fishing for role information by posting something obviously wrong and waiting to see who corrects him. Whether that's a townie looking for scum, a symp looking for roled innos or Kenshiro looking for symps, I don't know...

First post "seriously" positing that Serc's post had more to it than its base denotations? Okral even admits he doesn't know what it would be indicative of and that it could point at Serc being either town or scum, so that's not very helpful.

[Denul]

Serc, on 14 April 2014 - 05:00 PM, said:

Denul, on 14 April 2014 - 03:54 PM, said:

Her name is Yuri and she looks like this:

Spoiler

I love RA2 so much. the Soviet briefing chick was hawt.

Serc responds to a joke I made by commenting on the subject matter the image was taken from. Pretty common for day 1 of a mafia game. No, I never replied/commented back on this. Why would I? I hardly had time to post during the rest of the day, and it was just an inane babble comment (or so I thought, anyways...)

[Denul]

Denul, on 14 April 2014 - 06:09 PM, said:

Path-Shaper, on 11 April 2014 - 02:07 PM, said:

Victory Conditions

Town: Eliminate Kenshiro

Scum: Achieve majority OR Kenshiro kills the 3 warlords. If a warlord is lynched, it does not count toward this VC, which becomes null.

This makes me think that there are other scum roles beyond Kenshiro.

(note this is hours later)

Now, the Yuri bit had just been a joke, as after all who knows if girlfriend-Yuri would actually be in the game (she pretty much does nothing but die

Spoiler

or not

in the manga/anime and there are plenty of other characters to fill a 16p roster) so I didn't think speculating about it would accomplish anything before. But, having some time to re-read the OP at this juncture I saw the majority scum bit and that is helpful information to keep in mind, as well as disproves the lone-Kenshiro idea that Serc had brought up so I posted this here. ie here I was actually trying to be a good townie and, you know, share information with which we can play the game. Shocker.

[Denul]

Denul, on 14 April 2014 - 06:53 PM, said:

...also the second part of that scum VC definitely makes it seem like Kenshiro is the only killer - no other scum kills/vigs nor is he partnered with anyone (though he could still have a lover but not be partnered) - since it only talks about Kenshiro killing the warlords or them being lynched. I could see a town vig being present without murkying up that scum VC too much, but any other scum kills/vigs beyond Kenshiro would get into too much cross-interpretation of the OP if they killed a warlord to be included in this game.

My follow-up mechanics speculation (separation of posts was intentional since this was more speculated than the factual first part). Using the OP to help speculate and clarify on what town can expect to see in the game like this is really scummy according to Alkend? Well sorry, I guess we should all just independently make up our won beliefs about the game and never discuss anything; the thread can be naught but 8 vote posts every day.

[Alkend]

Erm, Denul I think you have me as your main protagonist for a lynch, when in fact I am voting for Serc. You need to address Monok's case on you. Right now all it seems you are doing is defending Serc further.

[Tiamatha]

I can think of several day one signalling cases that have come good for the town.

the very last game we played

one about 5/6 back when Maccy handed the town his scum on a player, so your bag of ducks can go suck on itself

[Denul]

Okral Lom, on 14 April 2014 - 10:07 PM, said:

Korabas, on 14 April 2014 - 09:46 PM, said:

Checking in. I apparently missed the spam part of day 1. Not too bothered really.

There might be something to the Serc situation. After one of you picks at Serc's wording with regards to the Kenshiro's role, and possibly looking for symps, serc posts:

Serc, on 14 April 2014 - 05:00 PM, said:

I love RA2 so much. the Soviet briefing chick was hawt.

Now this might be the most blatant signalling to Denul. I find it rather more likely, as one of you mentioned, that the obvious question posed by serc is probably an attempt to draw out some kind of reaction and stir the pot a bit. Serc's worth watching, but not really worth a vote at this point. Too early day 1, too thin of a case.

Also, that game was great.

First you pick out a Serc post that expresses his appreciation for RA2, and you claim that by doing so he is signalling. OK, fair enough that does at least seem plausible.

But then, you proceed to do exactly what Serc just did (talk about how much you liked RA2), having just made the point that doing that implies signalling. It feels as though you were subtly trying to imply that you are a symp: look at me, I just did this behaviour that I claim means I'm signalling!

I think maybe you were trying to catch someone's attention. It could be anyone - possibly Denul (since he made the original RA2 reference), possibly just someone else in the crowd. Since I'm not sure who, I think I'll just get the ball rolling with a vote on you.

Vote Korabas

Korabas thinks Serc might be a bit weird but too blatant to just be Serc signaling me.

Okral thinks Korabas also commenting on RA2 is in-turn some sort of "trying to get attention" (what scum generally try to avoid doing???).

From here, it all snowballs into a giant clusterfuck of many people claiming slightly different but overlapping beliefs that Korabas/Okral/Serc are misinterpreting each other and/or being hypocritical by doing the same signaling they are accusing the other of doing.

Mostly this is Okral and Bek arguing wordy interpretation back and forth:

Okral Lom, on 14 April 2014 - 11:14 PM, said:

Bek Okhan, on 14 April 2014 - 11:10 PM, said:

Okral Lom, on 14 April 2014 - 10:07 PM, said:

Korabas, on 14 April 2014 - 09:46 PM, said:

Checking in. I apparently missed the spam part of day 1. Not too bothered really.

There might be something to the Serc situation. After one of you picks at Serc's wording with regards to the Kenshiro's role, and possibly looking for symps, serc posts:

Serc, on 14 April 2014 - 05:00 PM, said:

I love RA2 so much. the Soviet briefing chick was hawt.

Now this might be the most blatant signalling to Denul. I find it rather more likely, as one of you mentioned, that the obvious question posed by serc is probably an attempt to draw out some kind of reaction and stir the pot a bit. Serc's worth watching, but not really worth a vote at this point. Too early day 1, too thin of a case.

Also, that game was great.

First you pick out a Serc post that expresses his appreciation for RA2, and you claim that by doing so he is signalling. OK, fair enough that does at least seem plausible.

But then, you proceed to do exactly what Serc just did (talk about how much you liked RA2), having just made the point that doing that implies signalling. It feels as though you were subtly trying to imply that you are a symp: look at me, I just did this behaviour that I claim means I'm signalling!

I think maybe you were trying to catch someone's attention. It could be anyone - possibly Denul (since he made the original RA2 reference), possibly just someone else in the crowd. Since I'm not sure who, I think I'll just get the ball rolling with a vote on you.

Vote Korabas

This post bothers me. Because Korabas clearly said he thinks it is unlikely that Serc's post is signalling, and more likely that Serc is looking for some kind of reaction. It looks like Okral has deliberately misread what Korabas has said, and then to base a vote off that looks seriously suspect.

The point I was trying to make (and perhaps did not articulate so well) was that Korabas points out that Serc's post could be signalling, and then does the same thing himself. I mean, there's no real reason to bring it up otherwise, is there? You underline the second sentence, but I was referring to the first.

Okral Lom, on 14 April 2014 - 11:31 PM, said:

Bek Okhan, on 14 April 2014 - 11:23 PM, said:

Okral Lom, on 14 April 2014 - 11:14 PM, said:

The point I was trying to make (and perhaps did not articulate so well) was that Korabas points out that Serc's post could be signalling, and then does the same thing himself. I mean, there's no real reason to bring it up otherwise, is there? You underline the second sentence, but I was referring to the first.

Yeah, but the first sentence is modified by the second. Reading only the first sentence removes it from the context of the rest of the post.

I'm confused by the part when you say there is no reason to "bring it up". Bring what up? The signalling? There is no reason to bring up the signalling, in a post about whether the signalling is actually signalling or not? Because that makes no sense.

What bothered me about it was how disconnected the two parts of the post are. In part 1, he mentions some potential signalling and says it "might be blatant". But then in part 2, he concludes just talks about Serc's role speculation question as the reason why he's not worth voting for as if the signalling aspect was irrelevant. And if the signalling part were irrelevant, why bring it up? The post felt like it was constructed and then jammed together, and then with the RA2 reference at the end it just seemed off to me.

Okral Lom, on 14 April 2014 - 11:52 PM, said:

Bek Okhan, on 14 April 2014 - 11:49 PM, said:

Okral Lom, on 14 April 2014 - 11:31 PM, said:

What bothered me about it was how disconnected the two parts of the post are. In part 1, he mentions some potential signalling and says it "might be blatant". But then in part 2, he concludes just talks about Serc's role speculation question as the reason why he's not worth voting for as if the signalling aspect was irrelevant. And if the signalling part were irrelevant, why bring it up? The post felt like it was constructed and then jammed together, and then with the RA2 reference at the end it just seemed off to me.

Interesting. I read it as Korabas using the post to back up his belief that Serc is fishing for information. As potential signalling has already been brought up in this game, it doesn't seem unusual to me to bring it up in this post. The signalling part is then not really irrelevant, if other people are going to use it as proof that Serc is scummy. Korabas is then just pre-empting that argument.

I may be reading it wrong though. I hadn't really considered your interpretation.

Fair enough. It's good to hash these things out. Anything else that stands out to you so far? I feel like we need to get this game moving, and the more cases the merrier!

Eloth, on 15 April 2014 - 03:06 AM, said:

So, the most interesting thing to me so far is how the Serc thing has turned into a Korabas thing. Neither are really strong on their own but the transition is interesting. Serc is called out for potential signalling, people comment on it some, and then Korabas says this:

Korabas, on 14 April 2014 - 09:46 PM, said:

Checking in. I apparently missed the spam part of day 1. Not too bothered really.

There might be something to the Serc situation. After one of you picks at Serc's wording with regards to the Kenshiro's role, and possibly looking for symps, serc posts:

Serc, on 14 April 2014 - 05:00 PM, said:

Denul, on 14 April 2014 - 03:54 PM, said:

Her name is Yuri and she looks like this:

Spoiler

I love RA2 so much. the Soviet briefing chick was hawt.

Now this might be the most blatant signalling to Denul. I find it rather more likely, as one of you mentioned, that the obvious question posed by serc is probably an attempt to draw out some kind of reaction and stir the pot a bit. Serc's worth watching, but not really worth a vote at this point. Too early day 1, too thin of a case.

Also, that game was great.

Now, there is something definitely off about this post. It reads weird. And I think that is why Bek and Okral went back and forth on it for so long - it supports what both of them are saying by contradicting itself. I highlighted the "pro-signalling" comments in blue and the "anti-signalling" comments in red. Korabas says on the one hand, "I see blatant signalling from Serc to Denul [insert quote]", and then backs off and says "But really it's more likely that Serc is just messing around so he isn't worth voting".

I am curious though - Okral, I agree that the Korabas post looks like sympage, but why did you link Serc to Korabas via RA2 and then say you have no idea who Korabas might be symping? I mean, the simplest answer was that he was attempting to contribute to the discussion (although unfortunately he gave two completely different opinions in the space of three or four sentences) - but in reality, attention was drawn away from Serc, which is exactly what symps are supposed to do. Serc was long gone just two hours after he arrived and said "good morning" and hasn't returned in the ten hours since.

So Korabas definitely looks scummy with his one and only post that contradicts itself a lot, but the vote on Korabas shifted the heat from Serc almost instantly. There is a post or two from Okral that could make me think he was deflecting, but it's just a minor ping on the scumdar at the moment.

Anyway, what I am curious about is why Okral was so sure that Korabas wasn't symping Serc if that was the reasoning behind his vote.

and MO wants to re-focus on Serc in case he is Korabas' master:

Monok Ochem, on 15 April 2014 - 04:34 AM, said:

Ook, Ooook, ook. Eek!

<snip>

Thank you Stibbons. So the question I have is why are we arsing about spending so much bloody time or Korabas when if he's the so-called symp, we ought to be focusing on Serc! I think this is all smoke and mirrors, and really, we ought to be testing by stringing up that Serc fellow, or maybe one of the supposedly upright citizens trying so valiantly to make a case on them!

[Lock]

Tiamatha, on 15 April 2014 - 02:18 PM, said:

I can think of several day one signalling cases that have come good for the town.

the very last game we played

one about 5/6 back when Maccy handed the town his scum on a player, so your bag of ducks can go suck on itself

Maccy yes, but the last game there was no signalling from Galayn - his posts were only interpreted to be signalling when in fact they weren't any such thing. The Maccy example is far more an exception than the rule - though it does show that it still can happen (though nowhere near as often as we'd like to believe).



Edit: Quote tag error.

This post has been edited by Lock: 15 April 2014 - 02:23 PM

[Denul]

Alkend, on 15 April 2014 - 02:16 PM, said:

Erm, Denul I think you have me as your main protagonist for a lynch, when in fact I am voting for Serc. You need to address Monok's case on you. Right now all it seems you are doing is defending Serc further.

I'm getting to it! Find some way to entertain yourself while you wait if you can't stand to read the whole thing.

[Rikkter]

Denul, on 15 April 2014 - 01:30 PM, said:

Ah yes, of course, it seems that I am most certainly the killer. That I told the town I had allies when they were suggesting I had none. That I highlighted for the town my victory conditions and the implications of them in the game, when the town had already breezed past them. That I made a big obvious call for my symps to reveal themselves to me, that they did in the most blatantly obvious fashion, and that I then somehow still did not realize that is what they were doing.

...

...

Or maybe I was just making a fucking day 1 joke about the theme of the game and you can all go eat a huge fucking bag of dicks.

It's only Day 1 and Dr. Love is already prescribing doses of dick all around

Nice

[Alkend]

Denul, on 15 April 2014 - 02:23 PM, said:

Alkend, on 15 April 2014 - 02:16 PM, said:

Erm, Denul I think you have me as your main protagonist for a lynch, when in fact I am voting for Serc. You need to address Monok's case on you. Right now all it seems you are doing is defending Serc further.

I'm getting to it! Find some way to entertain yourself while you wait if you can't stand to read the whole thing.

I can and I applaud your efforts but this post below is wrong.

Denul, on 15 April 2014 - 02:13 PM, said:

Denul, on 14 April 2014 - 06:53 PM, said:

...also the second part of that scum VC definitely makes it seem like Kenshiro is the only killer - no other scum kills/vigs nor is he partnered with anyone (though he could still have a lover but not be partnered) - since it only talks about Kenshiro killing the warlords or them being lynched. I could see a town vig being present without murkying up that scum VC too much, but any other scum kills/vigs beyond Kenshiro would get into too much cross-interpretation of the OP if they killed a warlord to be included in this game.

My follow-up mechanics speculation (separation of posts was intentional since this was more speculated than the factual first part). Using the OP to help speculate and clarify on what town can expect to see in the game like this is really scummy according to Alkend? Well sorry, I guess we should all just independently make up our won beliefs about the game and never discuss anything; the thread can be naught but 8 vote posts every day.

I am saying that you are backing up Serc with your post above which looks like you are symping him.