[HiddenOne]

People are throwing out my name in-game like it's a swear word (looks at Shin & Gnaw) - Am I supposed to be ashamed or proud?

@Tatts - not sure about that, endgame is always illuminating - I was actually waiting for GH to start freaking out a little as a tell, but no such luck & Venge is apparently on Valium these last few games

Although I did wonder if my recruit worked on Amp a few times, wasn't sure if he returned my signal or not

[Tattersail_]

HiddenOne, on 09 April 2014 - 02:35 PM, said:

People are throwing out my name in-game like it's a swear word (looks at Shin & Gnaw) - Am I supposed to be ashamed or proud?

@Tatts - not sure about that, endgame is always illuminating - I was actually waiting for GH to start freaking out a little as a tell, but no such luck & Venge is apparently on Valium these last few games

Although I did wonder if my recruit worked on Amp a few times, wasn't sure if he returned my signal or not

You could have recruited venge to town!!!

[Dolmen 2.0]

Shinrei, on 09 April 2014 - 02:18 PM, said:

Tattersail_, on 09 April 2014 - 02:13 PM, said:

Vengeance, on 09 April 2014 - 02:12 PM, said:

Gust Hubb, on 09 April 2014 - 02:03 PM, said:

Vengeance, on 09 April 2014 - 01:54 PM, said:

Korabas, on 09 April 2014 - 01:52 PM, said:

and that is why you always lynch the least scummy players

and venge if he never rages, hehe

I thought that it was a brilliant play for you to keep the pressure on me. That was well done. I expect that you raged a little bit when I voted for GL and then when I said that there was a Godfather role.

thank you.

no i wasn't too stressed. i only freaked when i thought u might nk me because of that godfather comment

I found out who you were at lv 3. Which happened at the same time I got my NK. So there was no way that was going to happen.

I thought that you kept telling me to kill Rikkter. Which I wasn't going to do because he came on thread and used his power. I was looking to kill people who didn't say that they used their power and who weren't a strong lynch candidate.

Lock had a lynch proof, I love those!

Totally useless. It would have been the easiest thing for anyone (not even scum) to say "LP? MUST BE MASTERMIND!" I fail to see how it would have helped town.

This was towns greatest weakness I think.

Each scum power was sly and very personal, quiet and off thread, save the instant night. Next Spycraft game I play I'm leaving off power speculation. It just gets me killed.

[Dolmen 2.0]

Congrats Venge, Tatts, Gusty. You guys were awesome.

[Macros]

Also, finish your questions HO

[Shinrei]

HiddenOne, on 09 April 2014 - 02:35 PM, said:

People are throwing out my name in-game like it's a swear word (looks at Shin & Gnaw) - Am I supposed to be ashamed or proud?

Either way, you've earned it.

[Vengeance]

Khellendros, on 09 April 2014 - 02:16 PM, said:

Vengeance, on 09 April 2014 - 02:00 PM, said:

D, on 09 April 2014 - 01:58 PM, said:

Vengeance, on 09 April 2014 - 01:53 PM, said:

PS are you going to move spoilers? I want to see how pissed Drek was that she died instead of Rikkter on night two.

Shit happens. Let [s]he who has never messed up a night action resolution cast the first stone!

I wanted to keep you around because I thought that you didn't suspect me.

If I had managed to escape my lynch, and if Tapper had seen you wanted to kill Rikkter not Ampelas(or Alkend or whoever it was) at that point, I was going to use my ability that night to heal Rikkter, so you would have been foiled.

Unfortunately, none of that happened. In fact, I think it may have been D'rek herself who hammered me with a couple of minutes to go

I had a back up plan for that if that happened. I was going to come on line and say that I had guarded XXX and that must have been why there wasn't a night kill. Bam instant lynch. Oh no he wasn't scum. Well shit then scum either withheld or the killer hit a heal. Hey oh.

[Tapper]

Dolmen Weeks, on 09 April 2014 - 02:37 PM, said:

Shinrei, on 09 April 2014 - 02:18 PM, said:

Tattersail_, on 09 April 2014 - 02:13 PM, said:

Vengeance, on 09 April 2014 - 02:12 PM, said:

Gust Hubb, on 09 April 2014 - 02:03 PM, said:

Vengeance, on 09 April 2014 - 01:54 PM, said:

Korabas, on 09 April 2014 - 01:52 PM, said:

and that is why you always lynch the least scummy players

and venge if he never rages, hehe

I thought that it was a brilliant play for you to keep the pressure on me. That was well done. I expect that you raged a little bit when I voted for GL and then when I said that there was a Godfather role.

thank you.

no i wasn't too stressed. i only freaked when i thought u might nk me because of that godfather comment

I found out who you were at lv 3. Which happened at the same time I got my NK. So there was no way that was going to happen.

I thought that you kept telling me to kill Rikkter. Which I wasn't going to do because he came on thread and used his power. I was looking to kill people who didn't say that they used their power and who weren't a strong lynch candidate.

Lock had a lynch proof, I love those!

Totally useless. It would have been the easiest thing for anyone (not even scum) to say "LP? MUST BE MASTERMIND!" I fail to see how it would have helped town.

This was towns greatest weakness I think.

Each scum power was sly and very personal, quiet and off thread, save the instant night. Next Spycraft game I play I'm leaving off power speculation. It just gets me killed.

I am quite a fan of ...-proofs. With the lynch proof, it would have been a slow-down of scum getting the town numbers down. Two-sided sword I suppose, as it also prevents town from using the lynch twice for info-gathering, and you'd be very strong if you were scum-recruited.

[Vengeance]

HiddenOne, on 09 April 2014 - 02:35 PM, said:

People are throwing out my name in-game like it's a swear word (looks at Shin & Gnaw) - Am I supposed to be ashamed or proud?

@Tatts - not sure about that, endgame is always illuminating - I was actually waiting for GH to start freaking out a little as a tell, but no such luck & Venge is apparently on Valium these last few games

Although I did wonder if my recruit worked on Amp a few times, wasn't sure if he returned my signal or not

I flipped out a bit. Just enough to give myself away. But the time away from the game helped I think.

[Vengeance]

Gusty I was going to vote for you if a train ever built up. That way if you were lynched I would could out smelling clean and still have the kill to work from. Nice to see that as scum we were both willing to betray each other in order to win.

[ansible]

fuuuuuuuuck

I pegged Venge as scum but Gust slipped right by me, I thought his cases made him town for sure. So my read on the game was off quite a bit. Gust and Venge did play really well, though, props to them.

Having said that (), I do feel that town was at a disadvantage this game, with the weird no-modkill, the inclusion of nationalities that only confused everyone (which could have been removed without any negative effect on the game, and they certainly didn't appear to have any real correlation to abilities as was so strongly stated in the OP), and finally the ability balance between scum/town. Although town had a few pretty useful abilities, they were all completely different and one-time use. That means that most abilities had to be used as early as possible or not at all (making them less useful overall and even then, only useful if revealed), and once they WERE used, like Venge so wisely pointed out, it was easy for scum to pick off players who had not used/revealed their ability yet. Plus they knew each other and could not only kill but had multiple abilities that a single town player would have (going to night, guard, RESURRECTING THE HEAD SCUM!?!?!, etc). I guess most of the pieces were there, but unless they all ended up fitting together just right, the balance was going to be off.

I'm probably just butt-hurt cause I lost but looking back at the game that's how it seemed to play out. Regardless, good game scum, 'twas much fun.

[Gnaw]

Korabas, on 09 April 2014 - 01:52 PM, said:

and that is why you always lynch the least scummy players

and venge if he never rages, hehe

Oh, fuck yeah. I mis-alted everyone, but if I'd pegged OL as Veng he'd have not lasted day two. He was way too fucking nice.

[Gnaw]

HiddenOne, on 09 April 2014 - 02:35 PM, said:

People are throwing out my name in-game like it's a swear word (looks at Shin & Gnaw) - Am I supposed to be ashamed or proud?

I forget what made me come up with the HOIFOY, but I'm sure it's a bit of both.

[Blend]

ansible, on 09 April 2014 - 04:26 PM, said:

fuuuuuuuuck

I pegged Venge as scum but Gust slipped right by me, I thought his cases made him town for sure. So my read on the game was off quite a bit. Gust and Venge did play really well, though, props to them.

Having said that (), I do feel that town was at a disadvantage this game, with the weird no-modkill, the inclusion of nationalities that only confused everyone (which could have been removed without any negative effect on the game, and they certainly didn't appear to have any real correlation to abilities as was so strongly stated in the OP), and finally the ability balance between scum/town. Although town had a few pretty useful abilities, they were all completely different and one-time use. That means that most abilities had to be used as early as possible or not at all (making them less useful overall and even then, only useful if revealed), and once they WERE used, like Venge so wisely pointed out, it was easy for scum to pick off players who had not used/revealed their ability yet. Plus they knew each other and could not only kill but had multiple abilities that a single town player would have (going to night, guard, RESURRECTING THE HEAD SCUM!?!?!, etc). I guess most of the pieces were there, but unless they all ended up fitting together just right, the balance was going to be off.

I'm probably just butt-hurt cause I lost but looking back at the game that's how it seemed to play out. Regardless, good game scum, 'twas much fun.

I still stand by my assertion that it makes no sense for a town player to have a vote blocking ability. That really threw me off.

[Gnaw]

Blend, on 09 April 2014 - 05:26 PM, said:

I still stand by my assertion that it makes no sense for a town player to have a vote blocking ability. That really threw me off.

I figured it was a town because my ability had the same side effect of his main ability. Among my many many faulty conclusions, I decided that he had claimed it as an effort to throw suspicion on me and whoever really did use it didn't contradict him because it drew heat on BO instead. I was a bit surprised that nobody ever accused me of lying about it.

When's the next game start?

[Vengeance]

Gnaw, on 09 April 2014 - 05:15 PM, said:

Korabas, on 09 April 2014 - 01:52 PM, said:

and that is why you always lynch the least scummy players

and venge if he never rages, hehe

Oh, fuck yeah. I mis-alted everyone, but if I'd pegged OL as Veng he'd have not lasted day two. He was way too fucking nice.

If it helps I was crazy busy at work for day 2 and so honestly didn't have much of an opportunity to post. That and it was a spam fest which I was having a hard time keeping up with. I honestly thought that I would wake up a couple of times to a lynch train on me.

[Gust Hubb]

HiddenOne, on 09 April 2014 - 02:35 PM, said:

People are throwing out my name in-game like it's a swear word (looks at Shin & Gnaw) - Am I supposed to be ashamed or proud? @Tatts - not sure about that, endgame is always illuminating - I was actually waiting for GH to start freaking out a little as a tell, but no such luck & Venge is apparently on Valium these last few gamesAlthough I did wonder if my recruit worked on Amp a few times, wasn't sure if he returned my signal or not

yeah i learned my freak out was a dead give away. now i force myself to be a snarky zen.

Vengeance, on 09 April 2014 - 03:12 PM, said:

Gusty I was going to vote for you if a train ever built up. That way if you were lynched I would could out smelling clean and still have the kill to work from. Nice to see that as scum we were both willing to betray each other in order to win.

glad we are on the same page there. i think it's the only way to play scum.

[Tapper]

ansible, on 09 April 2014 - 04:26 PM, said:

fuuuuuuuuck

I pegged Venge as scum but Gust slipped right by me, I thought his cases made him town for sure. So my read on the game was off quite a bit. Gust and Venge did play really well, though, props to them.

Having said that (), I do feel that town was at a disadvantage this game, with the weird no-modkill, the inclusion of nationalities that only confused everyone (which could have been removed without any negative effect on the game, and they certainly didn't appear to have any real correlation to abilities as was so strongly stated in the OP),

2 out of 10 is indeed not much (Denul, Monok), one of which partially revealed scum (Denul) once one knew there would be 5 nationalities.
The reason for nationalities was mainly continuity as it has been a part of Spycraft for a long time, and a way for me to group players. It was blown out of all proportion by the thread on (I think) day 3, as I ought to have expected

Quote

and finally the ability balance between scum/town. Although town had a few pretty useful abilities, they were all completely different and one-time use. That means that most abilities had to be used as early as possible or not at all (making them less useful overall and even then, only useful if revealed), and once they WERE used, like Venge so wisely pointed out, it was easy for scum to pick off players who had not used/revealed their ability yet. Plus they knew each other and could not only kill but had multiple abilities that a single town player would have (going to night, guard, RESURRECTING THE HEAD SCUM!?!?!, etc). I guess most of the pieces were there, but unless they all ended up fitting together just right, the balance was going to be off.

I slightly (unsurprisingly) disagree here. Maybe I underpowered town a little bit and ought to have thrown in one additional find so town could do two in a single night, making sure one result got back to them in the morning, but I don't think the difference was so big to make a scum victory the default outcome.

One, the Mastermind-granting-kills mechanic made sure there would be no night kill on night 1, slowing scum down by a night. That is a huge advantage to town.
Every time a killer would be lynched, the same would happen (which is why I built in the go-to-night mechanic - it can mitigate or be used strategically).

Two, the revive Mastermind ability would have stripped that Henchman of all of his abilities, including a kill if he was the killer at that time.

Three, one Henchman did not know the Mastermind at the start of the game and recruits would never learn it.

Four, the guard would come at the expense of a kill if the guard was a killer at that time.

Five, town had several good abilities and were, contrary to previous Spycraft games, able to reveal all activation-only abilities these as soon as they hit level 5 - which I really expected to happen. Part of that reason is also why I gave scum a one-time guard, the go to night and an LP.
The reasoning behind this was as follows: a recruit to faction would be a VPI (and would happen before any kills, so announcing on thread wouldn't disadvantage town - if scum killed the recruiter, his alignment would prove the recruit town and vice versa), a find would result in scum or in a VPI, the +24 hours was useful, and a vote block is situationally useful. I disagree it is slightly scummy but vote blocking an uninterested/scummy/drive-by-vote player can be good. The ninja could have been useful on a day a lynch seemed unlikely.

Six, Vengy's strategy, while limiting town, also left VPIs in his wake, like Rikkter. That narrows the suspect pool quite a bit faster. From SH, I thought it quite bad that town started questioning Messremb the day after, for example - 3 out of 7 players could be cleared by one another at D-1 .

Quote

I'm probably just butt-hurt cause I lost but looking back at the game that's how it seemed to play out. Regardless, good game scum, 'twas much fun.

Glad you enjoyed. Like I said before, I think the TMDI was badly picked and perhaps caused some of the nationality shenanigans. I maybe slightly underpowered town, too. The Denul non-modkill... I doubt it was game breaking but it was unfortunate how it played out.

[Shinrei]

Tapper, on 10 April 2014 - 07:35 AM, said:

One, the Mastermind-granting-kills mechanic made sure there would be no night kill on night 1, slowing scum down by a night. That is a huge advantage to town.
Every time a killer would be lynched, the same would happen (which is why I built in the go-to-night mechanic - it can mitigate or be used strategically).

One quibble is that it also made the whole Denul situation much more suspect, so rather than help town it really just threw us into confusion.

[Tapper]

Shinrei, on 10 April 2014 - 09:31 AM, said:

Tapper, on 10 April 2014 - 07:35 AM, said:

One, the Mastermind-granting-kills mechanic made sure there would be no night kill on night 1, slowing scum down by a night. That is a huge advantage to town.
Every time a killer would be lynched, the same would happen (which is why I built in the go-to-night mechanic - it can mitigate or be used strategically).

One quibble is that it also made the whole Denul situation much more suspect, so rather than help town it really just threw us into confusion.

Yeah, but I could hardly know that someone would be late when I was designing the game - as such, I wouldn't say it is a design flaw
I was going to mod-kill the alt, but I was quite busy that morning and by the time I got to the thread, he was there. I don't like killing someone once they make the effort to show up.