[Tiamatha]

We level up individually? I thought everyone levels up after 120 posts etc are reached?


I read PS' warning as, "please, just don't spam up the thread pointlessly, it takes away from everyone's enjoyment of the game."

[Tiamatha]

Bek, do you want me to answer your points against me, or do you not care what I have to say? I ask because I want to know if I'll be wasting my time with you or not

[Tiamatha]

In fact, to quote PS:

Quote

For every 120 posts or every 4 deaths, everyone goes up a level.

[Bek Okhan]

Tiamatha, on 31 March 2014 - 11:18 PM, said:

In fact, to quote PS:

Quote

For every 120 posts or every 4 deaths, everyone goes up a level.

I'd blame semantics there. Everyone, if not individually, is even more reason for worry. PS can clear it up for us I hope so I really just operate with above reasoning. I see no harm in doing so.

PS also said he will post the levels of each player. If this is true I think there is an individual aspect to it but again I am blaming semantics. Same strategy remains. We want a higher vote to lynch ratio. Attaining levels off of thread content alone we are already close to a point where level two is attained. More reason to vote players like you out. Day one then push for level 5 Day 2. I am open to changing my opinion Tiam. Nothing is set in stone. Just don't expect another post from me till I am ready to switch votes.

Edit: close to

This post has been edited by Bek Okhan: 31 March 2014 - 11:31 PM

[Lock]

Everyone levels up together, Bek. That doesn't preclude the fact that several people seem to want to level up ASAP. They might be good places to place votes, actually. We don't need scum with more abilities. I read PS's OP as a warning to town, not just from a TMDI standpoint but from a "scum gets scarier" standpoint.

So Tiam, why did it take you 3 posts to do what you could have in 1? Hmmmmm????

[Tiamatha]

Bek Okhan, on 31 March 2014 - 11:29 PM, said:

Tiamatha, on 31 March 2014 - 11:18 PM, said:

In fact, to quote PS:

Quote

For every 120 posts or every 4 deaths, everyone goes up a level.

I'd blame semantics there. Everyone, if not individually, is even more reason for worry. PS can clear it up for us I hope so I really just operate with above reasoning. I see no harm in doing so.

PS also said he will post the levels of each player. If this is true I think there is an individual aspect to it but again I am blaming semantics. Same strategy remains. We want a higher vote to lynch ratio. Attaining levels off of thread content alone we are already at a point where level two is attained. More reason to vote players like you out. Day one then push for level 5 Day 2. I am open to changing my opinion Tiam. Nothing is set in stone. Just don't expect another post from me till I am ready to switch votes.

That's more than a case of semantics. That's a case of two startlingly different interpretations.

See, your post suggests that you also think I'm spamming. I would argue that I'm not. That I haven't posted anything which could be considered to the detriment of game quality.

I am not vouching posting just for the sake of posting. But I am saying that if you can post and have things to say, do so, and don't hide for fear of being noticed by scum, AND certainly not for fear that it will mean scum attaining some grandiose power - I'm sure Tapper has balanced the game well enough for it not to be upset by fast levelling.

Now to answer your case.

[Tiamatha]

Lock, on 31 March 2014 - 11:32 PM, said:

Everyone levels up together, Bek. That doesn't preclude the fact that several people seem to want to level up ASAP. They might be good places to place votes, actually. We don't need scum with more abilities. I read PS's OP as a warning to town, not just from a TMDI standpoint but from a "scum gets scarier" standpoint.

So Tiam, why did it take you 3 posts to do what you could have in 1? Hmmmmm????

Because I post, then I immediately have another thought, then post that too, etc etc.

That's my normal pattern of posting. If I am lynched and you see my alt, you'll know that to be the case

[Korabas]

Wow, quite the day 1 talking spree. Before i begin, i want to correct BO's misconception given how it plays a critical role in his case on Tiam:

For those of you unfamiliar with Spycraft:

This game incorporates a levelling mechanic.
Everyone starts at level 0.
For every 120 posts or every 4 deaths, everyone goes up a level.
P-S announces what level everyone is at the start of night and start of day.
Going up a level may unlock an ability.

This game is relatively low in abilities, I'd label it at TMDI 2 for the first levels of the game. This rises to TMDI 7.

Town roles have no abilities at level 0-4, and get a (one-time) ability at level 5.
What scum has, is unknown. Of course.

Second rule: no reveals of nationalities or of powers you do not yet have.

Rule 3: Spam is... not encouraged.

Added information:

Each player has a name, a continent/state/federation and a third word (RI for town) in their PM.
The name is for scenes, the state/continent/federation are ability keys, the word for fluff/faction.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You will see that everyone levels up at the same time. So while talkative players do seem to be trying to accelerate the leveling process, this does not alone distinguish townie from scum. That being said, we have to wait quite a while for us to get any abilities whatsoever, and that after scum gets more fuel for their fire presumably, thus scum does have a high likelihood of spamming to get a little edge before relaxing a bit.

unfortunately, we have a disparity of information atm, really bringing 3 main suspects to the fore, and all three of them scummy to boot. To make matters worse, some of the side-notes are also very suspicious due to their connection to the talkative 3 (I speak of MO in this regard). and monkeys keep coming up as an additional overlooked statement from Tiam reveals:

Tiamatha, on 31 March 2014 - 04:43 PM, said:

Kessobahn, on 31 March 2014 - 04:38 PM, said:

Maybe that mean that PS anticipated this and doesn't want to see "100 Bottles of Beer on the Wall" to raise the post count, as exciting as that may be

Neither do I want to see it. I'm not saying let's be spam monkeys (ok, maybe I'm saying that a little), but we can post lots without it descending to those levels. We're already over halfway to level 2 and half the players haven't even checked in yet, and I don't think what's been posted so far is all pointless spam. There hasn't even been any dragonsecks talk.

And this quote again from Tiam seems to continue in the vein of signallin their master.

Tiamatha, on 31 March 2014 - 09:46 PM, said:

Kessobahn, on 31 March 2014 - 09:42 PM, said:

Bring Forth the Meat Shields, you say

If it has to be. I would rather die knowing I was contributing to the greater long-term good of the team, than not doing anything at all in fear that the All-Powerful Scum might glance my way.***enacts noble pose***

While i am additionally bothered by Amp's smiley faces and GL's innumerable OP questions feigning ignorance, really I am most concerned by the lack of attention on MO. Last game, Sorry similarly escaped attention on day1 to our detriment. As the cliche goes, vote master not symp.

vote MO

[Tiamatha]

Bek Okhan, on 31 March 2014 - 11:12 PM, said:

Then we have Tiam:

Tiamatha, on 31 March 2014 - 03:19 PM, said:

Ampelas, on 31 March 2014 - 03:16 PM, said:

Tiamatha, on 31 March 2014 - 03:14 PM, said:

I don't understand the votes on either GL or Ampelas. Surely the vote should go on Monok for being the actual gorilla?

well done watson! monok didn't mention any gorillas so why pull him into this atm? you did though and now you are already deflecting!!!

Well, because by your logic then surely I'm a symp and Monok is the master, that's why. Of course, your logic has relied heavily on the dumbass factor so far, but you should at least be consistent with it.

Not even batting an eye at sending the vote at Monok, following Ampelas to the next not so logical conclusion. not scummy but fanning the flames of an already odd signalling case.

Ok, so you yourself have established that this post is not scummy, thanks for that.

What I was doing there was trying to demonstrate to Ampelas how ridiculous I thought he was being by taking his own pretty dumb logic to its conclusion.

Quote

Tiamatha, on 31 March 2014 - 06:15 PM, said:

Without knowing what, if anything, scum receive on earlier levels, I can only think the more town who reach level 5 the better.


Statistically speaking - and this is really pointing out the obvious - town are more numerous earlier in the game. So, following on from that reasoning, the sooner we reach level 5, the better, as more townies *should* receive their bonuses.


I say *should* because of course there is the unknown factor as to what scum might receive earlier, which could throw the above reasoning out the window, depending on what it is.


But one can only work with the information one has, which says more posting = more leveling, more posting sooner = more townies at level 5. Otherwise, the other course of action is stagnation, and freezing in the face of the unknown.

EVERY thing about the underlined and following logic pings my scumdar. Town can't assume rushing to level 5 is helpful. PS seriously disadvises. If we assume that to be an informed warning scums incentive to level up is great. shooting the game from TMDI 2 to TMDI 7!
Thats a crazy level of complication. Town should think about that and realize how level 5 could be undermined by powerful scum, veterans should understand.

As I said, I interpreted PS' warning as a plea not to spam nonsensical bullshit needlessly. Obviously, there are other interpretations, but I'm following mine until it's disproved.

To counter, why would PS warn town that levelling up would be bad for them? Wouldn't that be unfair to the scum team, for PS to do so? In addition, going from TMDI 2 to TMDI 7 does not mean an easier game for scum, which is what you seem to take it to mean. It has never meant that. It means it gets more complex because of the various abilities involved, on both sides.

All I know is that town gets helpful abilities (if used correctly, of course lol) at level 5, but nothing before. Therefore, the longer we stay below that level, the less we have to help ourselves with.

Quote

Tiamatha, on 31 March 2014 - 09:36 PM, said:

Kessobahn, on 31 March 2014 - 09:31 PM, said:

So are we pursuing a "Level Quickly" Approach or a "Level Slowly" approach?

We appear conflicted (gasp - diverging opinions in mafia!). I would pursue a level quickly approach as I reasoned in an earlier post.

To me, the argument which Rikkter presents, suggesting we take it slow today and spam away day 2, also doesn't make sense. The fear is that scum gain other powers sooner. But surely that's going to happen anyway. That's not something we can stop, except by not posting at all. So better it happen sooner, when there are more of us around to take the hit, as it were, and more chance of those who might be less essential power-wise to take the flak, than later.

That makes sense to me anyway.



Edit: Changed 'Monok' to 'Rikkter'.

This supports my suspicion of Tiam. scum will thrive in a heard of overactive town trying to rush for levels. scum wants a loud noisy game. Rikkters strategy is sound. our day 1 should go off info collected already in regards to activity and content. the obvious targets perk up pretty quickly and those not so obvious will wind it hard to stay silent if town get good lynch momentum. picking out candidates off history rather than relying on a level 5 power which in our rush to achieve makes it easier to level up scum.

Scum will thrive in a herd of overactive town? Presumably I'm being labelled overactive, to which then we must also add the label town, no? Also presumably you mean scum will thrive by staying wilfully quiet and out of the way in this hypothetical mob. You know, like you said you would, Bek.

You also seem to be suggesting we stop Day 1 here and now. That we have enough to go off of. Never mind that HALF the players haven't even checked in yet. Never mind them, they don't matter, this day is over and done with, right? So why not just vote night now, Bek?

I agree with your last point, however. Of course we should pick candidates off their posting and not hope to rely on some future ability. As is the same in just about every mafia game. I am not arguing otherwise. I am not arguing let's post pointlessly and not pay any attention to what's going on around us. That seems to be your interpretation of my opinion, and it is just plain wrong. I am also saying, however, that if we can unlock something which could help us out, then let's give that a try, too.

Quote

Tiamatha, on 31 March 2014 - 09:58 PM, said:

Having said all that, I've just read something in the OP which revises my opinion somewhat.

Quote

P-S announces what level everyone is at the start of night and start of day.

As we know that town will get nothing from Level 1, but we don't know one way or the other if scum will get anything at level 1, it may indeed be worth pursuing Rikkter's idea of not reaching 120 posts before the end of the day, thus avoiding at least one night with killers potentially having another power.

My instinct is to say it probably makes little difference, but it's certainly something worth considering. Apologies to Rikkter, then.

This is Tiams only redeeming post and it feels iffy. I really find it out of place and don't really trust it, the when and how seems to reflect sudden self-consciousness. Perhaps as I watch the thread I will be dissuaded from it but my current read of this game has me suspecting Tiam more than anyone else to be scum.

Tiam is my current vote. If we get trains on one of the other noisier players like Ampelas or GL I'll support it with my vote, otherwise I think I said all I need to.

Vote Tiamatha

Actually, it reflects reading the OP again, as I stated.

I don't really understand your conclusion, Bek. You seem to intimate that scum will find it easy to hide if lots of townies post large quantities, but then that also suggests that in your scenario I would be, at worst, a misguided townie, whilst it's the quiet ones who would be scum.

And once again, I have to emphasise that I do not advocate spamming. But if I can help town as a whole reach more abilities, I will do so, whilst still posting only those things which are by and large relevant to the game.

[Tiamatha]

Bek Okhan, on 31 March 2014 - 11:29 PM, said:

Just don't expect another post from me till I am ready to switch votes.

This kind of statement, I would argue, shows why PS' statement might actually end up being damaging to town.

To explain: Bek nobly advocates that we don't rely on hoped-for future abilities, but focus on making cases out of the posts being made. You know, old-fashioned mafia style.

Now, how exactly are we supposed to do that if Bek and others like him deliberately ignobly choose not to post? What are we supposed to make cases off of? Now, any scum could simply and easily hide among the non-posters, citing the argument that they don't want to potentially level up scum. There's a reason why attention is on the top three posters, and it's not necessarily because we (or, rather, I ) are scummy, no matter all the posturing and blase statements of 'scummy' being made about it.

[Lock]

I agree with Tiam that "We shouldn't let scum level up so I'm not posting anything" is scummy in itself.

2 Problems with your interpretation of the spam warning, TIam.

1) Scum always starts the game with more information. As a game gets more complicated, it will stand to reason it remains less so for scum - so town is more likely to get fucked by complicatednessation.

2) High TMDI is hardly a deterrent for a lot of mafia players since some (many?) prefer it or don't care either way. If you like night actions to solve the game, you like high TMDI. So who is PS warning then? Macros?

[Tiamatha]

Lock, on 01 April 2014 - 12:29 AM, said:

I agree with Tiam that "We shouldn't let scum level up so I'm not posting anything" is scummy in itself.

2 Problems with your interpretation of the spam warning, TIam.

1) Scum always starts the game with more information. As a game gets more complicated, it will stand to reason it remains less so for scum - so town is more likely to get fucked by complicatednessation.

2) High TMDI is hardly a deterrent for a lot of mafia players since some (many?) prefer it or don't care either way. If you like night actions to solve the game, you like high TMDI. So who is PS warning then? Macros?

Number 2 doesn't seem to be a point against my interpretation, more like Bek's. My interpretation is that it warns against stupid spam, not against not reaching the higher TMDI.

As for number 1, you yourself say that scum usually have more info no matter what, so what difference does it make? But, that is also ignoring the fact that gaining abilities such as finds, guards, and heals does, in fact, open up more routes for information-gathering for town.

More likely to get fucked by complexity? No, not by complexity. Only by playing badly, or not at all.

[Lock]

So speaking of playing (well/badly), where do you think you'll vote Tiam?

I'm leaning towards voting the Monkey, since it's the only thing resembling a case, although I have this suspicion that Ampelas and GL are partners who decided that their strategy should be to spam conversations together.

[Ampelas]

problems i have with bek ---

misunderstands the OP. this almost has to be deliberate. seriously? you think that each player is going to rack up 500+ posts in this game? he may be confused by what seems to be insinuated by p-s - which is that although everyone levels up at 120 posts aggregate and 4 deaths aggregate (go ahead and argue 4 deaths per player, bek....), there also must be some kind of mechanic that allows certain players to level up outside of these two ways. otherwise why would p-s bother posting who is at what level at the beginning of day and night? it would be pointless if we all already knew we were on the same level all the time. so there must be something hidden here and bek is not only missing it but he jumped off the deep end without a lifejacket in the wrong direction

his refusal to show back up and talk. this is as bad as the first one. i don't care if you think your right or whatever, i don't think we (as malazan mafia players) are willing to afford anyone the luxury of showing up with one post, making a bad case on bad information, dropping a vote, and peacing out with no intention of returning unless his other lynch targets are possible trains. this is so arrogant as to border on stupid.

[Ampelas]

Lock, on 01 April 2014 - 12:55 AM, said:

So speaking of playing (well/badly), where do you think you'll vote Tiam?

I'm leaning towards voting the Monkey, since it's the only thing resembling a case, although I have this suspicion that Ampelas and GL are partners who decided that their strategy should be to spam conversations together.

lol and gl still has his vote on me...why exactly? if my train picks up steam you don't think he'll get away with removing out of nowhere because i'm his 'partner', do you? we have seen votes thrown around on tiam, gl, myself, and mo so far and gl's vote hasn't moved. personally, just based on the fact that hes still voting for me, right now i'm not exactly thinking hes my 'partner'... and there's a fuckin smiley for you, too

[Eloth]

Ampelas said:

1396314084[/url]' post='1116925']
problems i have with bek ---

misunderstands the OP. this almost has to be deliberate. seriously? you think that each player is going to rack up 500+ posts in this game? he may be confused by what seems to be insinuated by p-s - which is that although everyone levels up at 120 posts aggregate and 4 deaths aggregate (go ahead and argue 4 deaths per player, bek....), there also must be some kind of mechanic that allows certain players to level up outside of these two ways. otherwise why would p-s bother posting who is at what level at the beginning of day and night? it would be pointless if we all already knew we were on the same level all the time. so there must be something hidden here and bek is not only missing it but he jumped off the deep end without a lifejacket in the wrong direction

his refusal to show back up and talk. this is as bad as the first one. i don't care if you think your right or whatever, i don't think we (as malazan mafia players) are willing to afford anyone the luxury of showing up with one post, making a bad case on bad information, dropping a vote, and peacing out with no intention of returning unless his other lynch targets are possible trains. this is so arrogant as to border on stupid.

^^ the underlined. The OP not only suggests that individuals can level up outside the post count & fatality rate mechanisms it basically screams that such method is tied to the character origin state/continent/federation.

[Eloth]

The individual leveling posit is argument enough for reaching 120 posts on day one. (Which is guaranteed at this point).

[Korabas]

Ah finally a home computer, not a fucking phone.

I doubt Amp and GL are partners. I would be hard pressed to believe 1 of our noisy players are scum let alone two, especially so intimately intertwined. The problem is that the big bads rarely seem to be blatantly lynchable on day 1, leaving symps to ply their trade if need be.

Although, I swear if there wasn't such a weird interaction/non-interaction between Tiam and MO, I would be making a case on one of the noisy ones, particularly GL (in addition to spending a lot of time misunderstanding the OP, he seems to be harping an awful lot on townie roles).

Speaking of which, I still don't believe I have heard a response from Tiam to my case...

[Eloth]

Did I kill the thread or are you lurkers afraid to be the 120th customer?

The discussion around Rule Two: if it's a warning why assume that it' said warning for town? We,already know that town receive no benefits for levels 2-4 so if anyone is going to need warning against spam it should logically be aimed at scum no? I agree with Tiamatha* - it's a 'please don't post song lyrics and gratuitous dragonsecks'. Until I'm shown reason to believe otherwise.

*i vomited a little when I typed that. 100 was not that long ago.

[Alkend]

Hey all, checking in.