Malazan Empire: Words of Radiance (SPOILER THREAD) - Malazan Empire

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Words of Radiance (SPOILER THREAD)

#61 User is offline   Briar King 

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Posted 02 April 2014 - 04:26 AM

I just joined 17thshard.com. Anyone else here there?
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#62 User is offline   Terez 

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Posted 02 April 2014 - 04:42 AM

View PostBriar King, on 02 April 2014 - 04:26 AM, said:

I just joined 17thshard.com. Anyone else here there?

I am, but I rarely post. When I do it's usually in the signings and stalkings forum, related to updating the interview database. I started putting in WOR tour reports a couple of days ago. They usually have one of their people assigned to do data entry, which is good because I have only really read the Mistborn trilogy and Stormlight. I have learned some things about the other books just from putting in the reports and tweets and whatnot, but I often have to ask questions, which I usually do outside the forum.

This post has been edited by Terez: 02 April 2014 - 04:49 AM

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#63 User is offline   Briar King 

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Posted 02 April 2014 - 05:22 AM

Same username?
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#64 User is offline   Terez 

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Posted 02 April 2014 - 05:24 AM

Terez or Terez27. Can't remember which.

The President (2012) said:

Please proceed, Governor.

Chris Christie (2016) said:

There it is.

Elizabeth Warren (2020) said:

And no, Iím not talking about Donald Trump. Iím talking about Mayor Bloomberg.
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#65 User is offline   Blend 

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Posted 04 April 2014 - 06:05 PM

View PostWhisperzzzzzzz, on 31 March 2014 - 08:13 PM, said:

He's Nalan'Elin, one of the Almighty's Heralds. So was that person who Amaram spirited away at the end from Dalinar's warcamp ó he was Talenel'Elin.


I caught that he says he's Nalan'Elin, but just because he says he is, doesn't necessarily mean that he really is. I mean, why would a Herald go around killing people with Radiant powers? Or belong to a group of people who do? He says he's the Herald of Justice if I remember correctly, so I guess he thinks it just that these people die? But why? From what we've been told of the Heralds, they're supposed to be helping mankind prepare for the Desolation, but that doesn't seem to be what he's doing by killing Radiants.

I am very suspect of this character and his claim to be a Herald. If he is, in fact, a Herald, why does he seem to be working against men? Is he just sick of it all, and just trying to get mankind wiped out so that it all ends? Has he been infected by Odium somehow? I'm still convinced that blade he gave Szeth is an Odiumblade, whether it be from Warbreaker or not. Was Odium screwing with whatever Shard was present in Warbreaker too?

In fact, is Odium basically the same as Ruin from Mistborn?
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#66 User is offline   Blend 

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Posted 04 April 2014 - 06:10 PM

View PostBriar King, on 30 March 2014 - 12:10 AM, said:

My fav character HAS to be Lift though. She's gonna be important for sure. I was quite bummed out with Ym. He had some Cosmere info for sure and should be noted that Cresent Marked guys are different people. Ym's was a Makabi and Lifts was an Azish and they seemed to connected to the Herald Nin who gives Szeth Nightblood.

I had a feeling Jasnah survived but was expecting Yalb and some of the ship crew to be with her.


I don't think that's true. I think they're all the same guy - he's just making himself look different depending on where he is so that he can fit in to whichever society he's in.

Plus - from the Coppermind:

Quote

Nale has dark skin and a crescent-shaped scar on his cheek. He appears to be the man who killed Ym and the one who hunted Lift, whom she referred to as "Darkness."

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#67 User is offline   Whisperzzzzzzz 

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 02:54 PM

View PostBlend, on 04 April 2014 - 06:05 PM, said:

View PostWhisperzzzzzzz, on 31 March 2014 - 08:13 PM, said:

He's Nalan'Elin, one of the Almighty's Heralds. So was that person who Amaram spirited away at the end from Dalinar's warcamp — he was Talenel'Elin.


I caught that he says he's Nalan'Elin, but just because he says he is, doesn't necessarily mean that he really is. I mean, why would a Herald go around killing people with Radiant powers? Or belong to a group of people who do? He says he's the Herald of Justice if I remember correctly, so I guess he thinks it just that these people die? But why? From what we've been told of the Heralds, they're supposed to be helping mankind prepare for the Desolation, but that doesn't seem to be what he's doing by killing Radiants.

I am very suspect of this character and his claim to be a Herald. If he is, in fact, a Herald, why does he seem to be working against men? Is he just sick of it all, and just trying to get mankind wiped out so that it all ends? Has he been infected by Odium somehow? I'm still convinced that blade he gave Szeth is an Odiumblade, whether it be from Warbreaker or not. Was Odium screwing with whatever Shard was present in Warbreaker too?

In fact, is Odium basically the same as Ruin from Mistborn?


My guess is that he has either somehow been infected by Odium, or that he has become insane due to the torture he received in between Desolations. (The Heralds were tortured the entire time between Desolations, which may be why Taln was also mad).

EDIT: I was just reading this thread, which compiles Sanderson's answers to questions at conventions/signings/etc. One of the Q&A's was:

Quote

Q: Is a Desolation caused when a Herald breaks under torture?
A: This person is asking the right kinds of questions.


This could fit with the notion that Nalan and Taln broke under torture.


EDIT2: From Talenel's wiki page:

Quote

Taln was the only Herald to die in the Last Desolation. All of the other surviving Heralds chose to abandon the Oathpact, leaving only Taln bound to it, in hopes of ending the cycle of Desolations without breaking the Oathpact. Talenel alone returned to Damnation, due to his death he had no choice, but the rest of the Heralds walked free.


So, I guess my theory that Nalan broke under torture in Damnation was voided, as Taln was the only one there during this cycle. I really should reread Way of Kings, as it's been almost 4 years and I don't remember much of the detail.

EDIT3: So, I feel like I should've realized this sooner, but apparently the different worlds (Roshar, Scadrial, etc.) are actually all in the same universe. I had known about the Cosmere previously, but I always interpreted the different worlds as being separated by dimensions, not just by space. So now it makes a lot more sense why the 3rd Mistborn series will be a space opera.

This post has been edited by Whisperzzzzzzz: 05 April 2014 - 03:37 PM

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Posted 01 May 2014 - 05:43 PM

Regarding the prospect of a Surgebinder vs. Mistborn fight, I believe Brandon's said that some of the magical forces are innate within the people of a world and some within the world itself. If a person has innate powers from their homeworld, they can carry those powers throughout the Cosmere. If they draw on other forces, they need to take those forces with them. For example, my guess is that Misborn/Mistings can operate on other worlds but only if they have metals from Scadrial with them to burn. When they run out, they're screwed (the local metals on, say, Roshar, would not be Endowed with magical force so they couldn't use them).

That's my guess based on some of what Sanderson has said, anyway. That might be wrong.

Quote

In fact, is Odium basically the same as Ruin from Mistborn?


He is the same class of being, yes, but not the same individual.

The cornerstone of Sanderson's mythology is that there was once a primal force called Adonalsium. This force was shattered into sixteen Shards, each Shard given a name like Odium, Ruin, Preservation, Dominion, Honour etc. Each Shard was seized by an individual, who was given godlike power by the Shard but also transformed by it. In the case of Rayse, the human who seized Odium, he was already evil and unpleasant and the Shard made him even moreso.

Quote

So, I feel like I should've realized this sooner, but apparently the different worlds (Roshar, Scadrial, etc.) are actually all in the same universe. I had known about the Cosmere previously, but I always interpreted the different worlds as being separated by dimensions, not just by space. So now it makes a lot more sense why the 3rd Mistborn series will be a space opera.


Yes. Sanderson has said that the star systems in the Cosmere are relatively close to one another in a small dwarf galaxy. Some of the notable planets are in the same star system (like Roshar and Blaize).
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#69 User is offline   MecnunK 

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Posted 20 May 2014 - 05:01 PM

Finished it yesterday and still a bit befuddled about the whole thing and whether I liked it or not. On the whole I would probably go for not. WoK Was a slow start but I got into it and started liking the storyline and empathising with characters like Kaladin but in WoR I have gone off him.. He turned into a unlikeable whine-bag for most of the book. Shallan was ok but 900 odd pages to get to where we are is not something I enjoyed trawling through. I reckon he could halve it and tell a good story. The best bit in the entire book was what Adolin did at the end + the Lift pov.
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#70 User is offline   Briar King 

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Posted 23 May 2014 - 03:43 AM

View PostMecnunK, on 20 May 2014 - 05:01 PM, said:

Finished it yesterday and still a bit befuddled about the whole thing and whether I liked it or not. On the whole I would probably go for not. WoK Was a slow start but I got into it and started liking the storyline and empathising with characters like Kaladin but in WoR I have gone off him.. He turned into a unlikeable whine-bag for most of the book. Shallan was ok but 900 odd pages to get to where we are is not something I enjoyed trawling through. I reckon he could halve it and tell a good story. The best bit in the entire book was what Adolin did at the end + the Lift pov.



Lift was def my fav POV. Im really looking foward to seeing where she goes through the series for sure. Kaladin did whine alot but considering what he went through in bk 1 its understandable but we didnt need to read about it over and over again in this book.
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#71 User is offline   Tru 

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Posted 13 November 2014 - 11:49 PM

View PostBriar King, on 23 May 2014 - 03:43 AM, said:

View PostMecnunK, on 20 May 2014 - 05:01 PM, said:

Finished it yesterday and still a bit befuddled about the whole thing and whether I liked it or not. On the whole I would probably go for not. WoK Was a slow start but I got into it and started liking the storyline and empathising with characters like Kaladin but in WoR I have gone off him.. He turned into a unlikeable whine-bag for most of the book. Shallan was ok but 900 odd pages to get to where we are is not something I enjoyed trawling through. I reckon he could halve it and tell a good story. The best bit in the entire book was what Adolin did at the end + the Lift pov.



Lift was def my fav POV. Im really looking foward to seeing where she goes through the series for sure. Kaladin did whine alot but considering what he went through in bk 1 its understandable but we didnt need to read about it over and over again in this book.


I do struggle with reluctant, brooding, protagonists. Kaladin has this syndrome to some extent, but he seems to finally have overcome it. I do love this series, and look forward to the next book. I've always liked Sandersons straight forward writing approach. He's a very good "nuts and bolts" author. He's not going to give you flowery speeches and tons of great quotes to toss about to impress your friends with, but he is the writing worlds version of "The Big Fundamental." I can't help but like his pace and structure. With the exception of a few slang words here and there ("wow") that would seem to fit better in modern day America, I can't put his books down.

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#72 User is offline   Mentalist 

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Posted 09 April 2015 - 05:33 AM

Just finished, stayed up till 1 AM, the usual.

With the Stormlight Archive Sanderson seems to be developing a habit to be mostly dull, and then deliver the 100+ pages of pure awesomeness at the end.

And seriously, that is the mother of all cliffhangers we are left with, what with just waiting for the world to end in a few days or so when the Everstorm does its rounds.

So, from what I've been able to understand (my understanding may be hazy, as I didn't re-read WoK before this):

-there's the crazy intellect king who hired Szeth to create chaos to become the saviour. Graves was working for him and now Moash is too. My gut is pushing me to think that's it's all a big con, a la what Ruin did with the histories in Mistborn. (edit: forgot to mention I totally feel that Moash will rise up far in Theravangian's org, then 2 or 3 books in, at a final showdown, he'll "see the light" and backstab him to save Kaladin. Or to monumentously screw things up while thinking he's fixing them.)

-Ghostbloods--they clearly know things, and surely I wasn't the only one that caught their leader referring to his "babsk"--being the term for "mentor" that was also used in that interlude with the trader-girl in the Purelake? methinks another Herald is afoot.

-Nan the Justice Herald, who rescues Szeth--aka- the guy who hunted Lift and killed Ym--he certainly seems to have gone mad. don't think it's Odium influence, more like him taking his aspect to the extreme. He is specifically hinting Radiants "for their crimes"--and the fact that their powers give the ability to amplify those crimes.

Amaran's crew--seem to be working for the Church, which is trying to make its own comeback (i forget which country host the Rome equivalent)

Jasnah is trying to be Kruppe and Paran rolled into one, working behind the scenes, and will probably be used as a deus Ex Machina or 2. Or 10.

Another random bit I noticed- one of the epigraphs implied that the Desolations were back, b/c Talenel "snapped" in his purgatory. Supposedly his sanity gave the world the millenia of peace....and his "snapping" maybe triggered teh spren to start seeking out humans again? (like Pattern coming to Shallan when she was still a child?)

Impressions from the book: really like the pacing. The short chapters before PoV switches made even the less pleasant bits bearable.

Shallan did good in this book. enjoyed reading her.

Kaladin had his moments of awesomeness, but the "break him down to build him up to OVER 9000!!!" thing was really grating the second time around. I understand why, but, please, Mr. Sanderson: never again.

The ending sequence was spectacular, as expected. Although the whole "gotta go, daughter disobeying" thing by the Stormfather really gave the whole game away about 70 pages from the end. . And yes, Sanderson gotta start keeping dead characters dead.

My main beef with the series remains the same, however. As much as I'd love to believe, I'm just not seeing a 10 book series out of this yet. that epilogue is comparable to Perumov in the amount of players that suddenly jump out of boxes, and it all sounds very promising, but.... SE needed stories going on 4 continents simultaneously to make MBtoF work. If Sanderson keeps the focus on the same core group of characters, giving us very minor glimpses into the rest of the huge and variety-filled Roshar, I can still see this running out of steam. Not to mention I don't find any of his characters so far particularly compelling. They have good stories, but too often I find them predictable.

For now I'm not convinced this series is insta-buy. But I want to be convinced it should be.

P.S.: As mentioned earlier, the chapter epigraphs quiting from the in-book "Word of Radiance" didn't work for me. too far out of context, too many names. I'm all for piecing things together, but I will freely admit that being tossed a paragraph from a chapter, all out order was too much for me, and eventually I just skipped those.

This post has been edited by Mentalist: 09 April 2015 - 01:44 PM

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And I want to state that Ment has out-weaseled me by far in this game.
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#73 User is offline   Cause 

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Posted 13 April 2015 - 08:59 AM

View PostMentalist, on 09 April 2015 - 05:33 AM, said:


Another random bit I noticed- one of the epigraphs implied that the Desolations were back, b/c Talenel "snapped" in his purgatory. Supposedly his sanity gave the world the millenia of peace....and his "snapping" maybe triggered teh spren to start seeking out humans again? (like Pattern coming to Shallan when she was still a child?)



Between Desolations the Heralds appear to suffer torture. I would hazard by odium. I got the impression that the longer they can endure the longer the calm before the next desolation. Eventually Talinel could cope no more and released himself but began the next desolation. It appears to be something about honour and oathpacts etc which somehow constrain odium but must have consequences. The other 9 had already broken and so refused to return to be tortured. There breaking of the oathpact appears to have inspired all the knights later abandoning their oaths as well. At least that's my current reading.
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Posted 16 April 2015 - 08:10 AM

View PostBaco Xtath, on 09 March 2014 - 08:56 PM, said:

Yeah, the swearing is annoying though I've grown used to it. My hardest thing to deal with has been Shallan's "wit". The humor all around seems very childish to me. I guess it's because my last couple fantasy books have been Psalms of Isaak, Emperor's Blades, Bakker, Bobby Dollar, and authors that target adults rather than all ages.


I liked this and WOK quite a lot, although it's clear he is writing fantasy to be accessible to anyone from young teen and up, hence the distinct lack of strong swears, sex, and truly brutal violence; this I have no real problem with (or I'd worry I had a problem XD) I just find that I enjoy his writing from purely a popcorn viewing point of view, much like I would enjoy a summer blockbuster film. Really great fun, often quite engaging and emotional, but it wont change my life or really speak to me long term. And if Sandersons work really effects the reader that's great I just felt very aware every time someone "cursed" that I was reading a book and it lost some of it's escapist appeal, I also was really not too happy with the final finale. I thought for the most part the final chapters were good fun and pretty exciting but wasn't happy at all with being only 2 books into yet another projected 10 volume mega series (why do authors feel the need to declare such huge intentions when it may be they haven't really thought out the full plot???) and having no truly satisfying ending to such a big book...

ah well, I will read the next ones of course, just not with quite so much love as some of my friends XD
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Posted 16 April 2015 - 04:59 PM

Good book this.

Finished it two nights ago, im still ruminating over the overall story.

I Really hope to get more of the void bringers. If this turns out to be a 10 book series I'd love to have a character captured by them, witness how they go about re-establishing themselves under the guidance of odium.
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#76 User is offline   Briar King 

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Posted 16 April 2015 - 07:13 PM

View PostDolmen 2.0, on 16 April 2015 - 04:59 PM, said:

Good book this.

Finished it two nights ago, im still ruminating over the overall story.

I Really hope to get more of the void bringers. If this turns out to be a 10 book series I'd love to have a character captured by them, witness how they go about re-establishing themselves under the guidance of odium.


Bk 4
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Posted 18 September 2015 - 03:37 PM

Just listened to the duel... yeah, THAT duel.

The plot device to get there was clunky .... Adolin didn't use his words right.... seriously? ...but the actual fight..... fuck but that was great fun to read.
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Posted 25 September 2015 - 02:14 PM

I knew it was coming, but even so, at the end, i squeeled like a little girl....

Spoiler


Hell of a finale.
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#79 User is offline   Briar King 

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Posted 25 September 2015 - 08:43 PM

I'm curious if you got the edited version or 1st version. They have differences which I don't like at all.
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Posted 25 September 2015 - 11:32 PM

View PostBriar King, on 25 September 2015 - 08:43 PM, said:

I'm curious if you got the edited version or 1st version. They have differences which I don't like at all.


Earbook actually.What are the differences?
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