Malazan Empire: Words of Radiance (SPOILER THREAD) - Malazan Empire

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Words of Radiance (SPOILER THREAD)

#21 User is offline   Terez 

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Posted 11 March 2014 - 10:02 AM

SPOILERS WHOLE POST

 Possibly Brent Weeks, on 05 March 2014 - 09:19 AM, said:

Epilogue made me mad. Nobody the reader likes can die, apparently.

That also frustrated me, along with a few other things in the Epilogue. I feel like Brandon is at some weird stage in his career where he thinks fake-outs are cool, because he used the hell out of them in AMOL too, to the point that about halfway through the book you started expecting everything to be a fake-out. It's not just people coming back to life; it's also things like Kaladin losing an arm to a Shardblade, oh no it can't be healed, oh but it can, etc. Plot twists like that are only effective in moderation. And if Szeth and Jasnah hadn't "died", their survival at the end would not have ever led to a comment like "nobody the reader likes can die, apparently". It's the end of book 2. It's only the fake-outs that lead to that kind of reaction.

One other part of the end (and the lead-up) that I hated: the voice of Stormfather. Brandon's all-caps god-beings are very unconvincing to me. It always jerks me out of the story a bit, and Stormfather really put a damper on the end of the book for me in the same way that Almighty Odium-has-killed-me did at the end of TWOK.

 Possibly Brent Weeks, on 05 March 2014 - 09:19 AM, said:

I really liked Adolin losing his shit and killing Sadeas.

That seems to me like a set-up for a drama. He'll be caught out and charged with murder, I figure, and that will be the catalyst to break up his engagement with Shallan so that she can hook up with Kaladin (which was none-too-subtly foreshadowed throughout the book).

 Possibly Brent Weeks, on 05 March 2014 - 09:19 AM, said:

Anyone have a guess on what Gavilar told the Parshendi so that they killed him? I think it was that he was able to do surgebinding, which meant that the spren were returning and so would the darkspren, and so the Parshendi leadership decided to assassinate Gavilar and take credit for it in the hope that the Alethi would kill them all so they wouldn't return to the old ways. Unfortunantally, the Alethi kept all their leaders and killed them, and so this knowledge was somehow lost.

It appears as though he, like Amaram, thought that bringing the Voidbringers back would also bring back the Radiants, and the Parshendi were desperate to prevent that (until stormform). I may be remembering something wrong, though.

 Possibly Brent Weeks, on 05 March 2014 - 09:19 AM, said:

What is Jasnah's power(s)? Is she a lightweaver as well, which is how she made everyone think she was killed?

She's not a lightweaver; she said that she and Shallan are different orders. I suspect she survived via stormlight/Shadesmar, and I forget the name of the other order with Soulcasting ability.

 Possibly Brent Weeks, on 05 March 2014 - 09:19 AM, said:

Sad that Dalinar became a radiant. I wanted him to remain a 'common' leader who would preside over the radiants to get them all to work together or something.

What was sad about it to me was the way in which it happened. "Hey storm dude, I can has powerz too?" / "Uh...sure, why not." Couldn't it have been a bit more interesting?

 Possibly Brent Weeks, on 05 March 2014 - 09:19 AM, said:

So, will Rloin (The parshendi bridgeman) change once the Everstorm washes over him? What happened to the group of Parshendi that didn't want to go super-storm-style and fled? Do they change? Will they be found later? What about the Parshendi War Leader that got head/shoulder butted off the spire? Dead, or a recurring enemy?

It was strongly implied in Eshonai's POV that the group of people who didn't want to go stormform would be killed.

 Possibly Brent Weeks, on 06 March 2014 - 05:00 AM, said:

Is the 'Ambassador' with the white mouse on his cheek (that is talking with the 'other' western ambassador about somebody having 'their lords' blade?) that Jasnah sees in the prologue before oil-man (who I assume is her spren) the same guy that is hunting down and killing the other radiants-hopefuls?

Szeth also saw him in the prologue of TWOK, same scene from his POV, of course. I just noticed that because I just started a reread so I can sort out a few things in my head.

 Possibly Brent Weeks, on 05 March 2014 - 09:19 AM, said:


If so, and if they are actual 'skybreakers'/justiciers, does that mean they were hunting Szeth? And, if so, does that mean that the 'god' who sorta-resurects Szeth is one of the original radiants?

One of the Heralds, as introduced in the Prelude to TWOK. (Nin)

 Briar King, on 06 March 2014 - 09:51 PM, said:

Awe 1st chapter in and it's my least fav pov from bk 1 by far... Please tell me Shallan is actually good in this one.

In my opinion she was much less annoying in this book, partly because Brandon moderated her a bit, and partly because "why she is that way" was explained.

 Stalker, on 10 March 2014 - 07:58 PM, said:

That was definitely hinted at in TWoK. There was one scene where she recalled holding a silvery blade and another where she was counting heartbeats. No definitive proof until now though. Very cool scene.

I thought it was a bit more explicit than that. I spent half the book wondering when she was going to use it again. Didn't she say near the end of TWOK that she killed her father and stole his shardblade? Turned out to be only partly true, but I seem to recall it.

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#22 User is offline   QuickTidal 

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Posted 11 March 2014 - 11:16 AM

 Terez, on 11 March 2014 - 10:02 AM, said:

I thought it was a bit more explicit than that. I spent half the book wondering when she was going to use it again. Didn't she say near the end of TWOK that she killed her father and stole his shardblade? Turned out to be only partly true, but I seem to recall it.


I don't think so. I investigated after realizing I missed any mention on my first readthrough.

The two mentions are about "ten heartbeats" and "hidden weapon"...there is no direct mention of her killing her father with a Shardblade, nor a direct mention of the blade itself, just the telltale signs of the things associated with one.

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 11 March 2014 - 01:11 PM

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#23 User is offline   Terez 

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Posted 11 March 2014 - 09:30 PM

For the record, I didn't think she killed her father with it...just that she had thought about killing her father and stealing his shardblade in the same thought. But since I don't feel like hunting down that passage I will take your word for it.

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#24 User is offline   QuickTidal 

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Posted 13 March 2014 - 12:39 AM

Finished!

Loved it mostly.

Had a few issues, but overall as solid a read as TWoK.

Spoiler

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 13 March 2014 - 12:39 AM

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#25 User is offline   A Demon Llama! 

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Posted 14 March 2014 - 03:10 AM

Very enjoyable.

Spoiler

This post has been edited by A Demon Llama!: 14 March 2014 - 03:12 AM

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#26 User is offline   Stormcat 

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Posted 14 March 2014 - 03:46 AM

I am really enjoying this book, a lot. I am a little more than halfway through and I can't find anything I dislike about it.
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#27 User is offline   A Demon Llama! 

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Posted 14 March 2014 - 04:35 AM

So I decided to read about how these worlds are interconnected and its pretty interesting.

Seems like there are entities or parts of one entity called Shards that either create worlds or migrate to them and then create life and their own magic systems based on their aspect. Some work together, Like in The Stormlight Archive and some seem not to, like in Elantris. Then there is one shard, Odium, that jumps to these different worlds seeking destroy, or "splinter", them.

It looks like Brandon Sanderson is planning another 43 books or so for everything to be clear so we only need about 20 years until we will see the resolution. I should probably do more exercising.


More info here -> http://coppermind.net/wiki/Shard
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#28 User is offline   Obdigore 

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Posted 17 March 2014 - 07:04 AM

We already have a thread on that, Demon Llama. Its called 'The Cosmere Conundruum' and in this very forum!
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#29 User is offline   Cause 

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Posted 17 March 2014 - 01:47 PM

 Possibly Brent Weeks, on 05 March 2014 - 09:19 AM, said:

So... just finished.

Initial Thoughts:

Epilogue made me mad. Nobody the reader likes can die, apparently.

I really liked Adolin losing his shit and killing Sadeas.

Now, I'll have to read it again but I'm absolutely bewildered at the byplay between the Ghostbloods, the Skybreakers (Who are Amaram's group as well as that god-guy at the end who kept Szeth from fully dying?) I'm still not sure what the Ghostbloods are all about. I believe the Skybreakers are another sect of ... whats-his-face's parents (the bridgeman who betrayed his family to the local brightlord)... that are pining for the return of the lost radiants? Then we have the supporters of the intellect-changing now-king of Jah Kaved, who are working against the others and for humanity, as they see it.


Are We Sure Amaram is a Skybreaker? I don't think so. I think he is a third party along with King Gavilar that wanted to bring back the heralds, not realizing or caring that it would start a desolation.

Quote

What is Jasnah's power(s)? Is she a lightweaver as well, which is how she made everyone think she was killed?


I think she is an ElseCaller, Her powers I think reading between the lines and using the encyclopedia at the back of the book would be to soulcast and to be able to travel/teleport (herself and maybe others) through Shadesmar. Don't ask for a reference but I recall maybe shadesmar exists throughout the whole cosmere and is the way shards and gods travel between realms. This is how she escaped her kidnappers and how she returned.

Quote

Sad that Dalinar became a radiant. I wanted him to remain a 'common' leader who would preside over the radiants to get them all to work together or something.

I dunno by not having a blade or plate he won't be at the front of things in that sense. Also Bondsmiths are somehow special. Apparently there was only ever 3 of them. It was also hinted at that he must be a radiant or possess the potential to be one (though maybe every human does). His wounds heal better than they should etc. Agreed that basically just demanding it was weak.

Quote

I totally think that Shallan and Kaladin have 'feelings' for each other and it's going to cause issues in the future.

Def hinted at but I really hope this goes no where! Teenage love traigle bullshit! It felt forced more than anything. Als she clearly does like Adolin and he likes her.

Quote

My favorite part in the this book was probably a 4v1 then 4v2 then 4v3 'duel' will Adolin, Kaladin, and Renarin. I thought it was some great action writing, especially when Pattern broke the one guys mind.

Nice section but also silly. He accidentally agreed to a full disadvantage duel, 4 vs 1. Suddenly though we learn that this also means 3 vs 4. I actually am pretty sure a half disadvantage duel of 2 vs 1 would be harder than 3 vs 4.

Quote

So, will Rloin (The parshendi bridgeman) change once the Everstorm washes over him? What happened to the group of Parshendi that didn't want to go super-storm-style and fled? Do they change? Will they be found later? What about the Parshendi War Leader that got head/shoulder butted off the spire? Dead, or a recurring enemy?

My guess is some will manage to defy their gods who they obviously don't care for. Its sort of the whole Parshmen thing. A big dissapointment for me though was having shen be a Parshendi dull form. I actually thought he was a parshmen who was waking up because of circumstance and a little bit because of Kaladin treating him right. I thought he was gonna become something more special than he did, maybe he had an instinctual knowledge of the forms etc. I guess he will turn up again the future.

Quote

What about the guys going around killing the possible-radiants (cobbler and attempting to kill the girl thief), are they Skybreakers as well (I use that term as underlings of a god of justice). If so, why are they just straight hunting them?

Def think they are skybreakers. They seem to need an excuse to kill radiants. They had to find out that the cobbler was a murderer from 40 years ago to move against him. Being Radiants is not illegal, the need an excuse. They obviously think killing radiants will keep the storm away.

As for Kaladin. His two powers are already revealed. Mastery of Gravity and Air pressure. He won't develop the power of Regrowth but it seems while only 2 orders of Knights can regrowth others all knights radiants can regrowrth themselves and this is not considered one of their powers. Will Be interesting to see what a skybreaker can do. I am guessing that at least one of the powers of a windrunner will be the same for a Skybreaker.

This post has been edited by Cause: 17 March 2014 - 01:50 PM

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#30 User is offline   QuickTidal 

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 02:16 AM

Way to suck all the fun out of it Cause. :p
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#31 User is offline   Cause 

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 08:01 AM

 QuickTidal, on 18 March 2014 - 02:16 AM, said:

Way to suck all the fun out of it Cause. :p


What did I do? Im innocent!
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#32 User is offline   QuickTidal 

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 11:03 AM

 Cause, on 18 March 2014 - 08:01 AM, said:

 QuickTidal, on 18 March 2014 - 02:16 AM, said:

Way to suck all the fun out of it Cause. :p


What did I do? Im innocent!


LOL!
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#33 User is offline   Cause 

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 12:46 PM

I forgot to make a comment about the books pacing. I don't know how to put it in words exactly but it seems off to me. Not exactly slow, nothing particular jumps out as being a waste of time and yet everything takes so long to advance. I read this book on a kindle so I don't know the exact age count but it seems massive and so was the last book. They are part of a ten book series as well. Maybe very deliberate best describes the pacing? It strikes me that the pacing could be ramped out quite easily without any loss of information or exposition, which could just be a stylistic choice but I have seldom come across a book so large! Just curious what others think
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#34 User is offline   QuickTidal 

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Posted 19 March 2014 - 12:54 AM

 Cause, on 18 March 2014 - 12:46 PM, said:

I forgot to make a comment about the books pacing. I don't know how to put it in words exactly but it seems off to me. Not exactly slow, nothing particular jumps out as being a waste of time and yet everything takes so long to advance. I read this book on a kindle so I don't know the exact age count but it seems massive and so was the last book. They are part of a ten book series as well. Maybe very deliberate best describes the pacing? It strikes me that the pacing could be ramped out quite easily without any loss of information or exposition, which could just be a stylistic choice but I have seldom come across a book so large! Just curious what others think


I agree about pacing. Book 1's pacing never got to me, even though it was the same kind of meander...but I think I noted it more in book 2.
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#35 User is offline   Blend 

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Posted 19 March 2014 - 03:58 PM

I'm a little over halfway through, now, and best line so far:

Shallan - "What if you need to poop?"

Followed very closely by

Adolin - "So yes, I, Adolin Kholin - cousin to the king, heir to the Kholin princedom - have shat myself in my Shardplate. Three times, all on pupose."

I read this on the bus, and got some strange looks when I was cackling like a crazy person.
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Posted 19 March 2014 - 10:19 PM

 Blend, on 19 March 2014 - 03:58 PM, said:

I'm a little over halfway through, now, and best line so far:

Shallan - "What if you need to poop?"

Followed very closely by

Adolin - "So yes, I, Adolin Kholin - cousin to the king, heir to the Kholin princedom - have shat myself in my Shardplate. Three times, all on pupose."

I read this on the bus, and got some strange looks when I was cackling like a crazy person.



This was a semi-redeemer for me. I didn't like a lot of Shallan's wit, but this conversation was gold.
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Posted 19 March 2014 - 11:03 PM

I did like Pattern being Shallan's shardblade all along, but Shallan was so much better in this book - my attempt at rereading the first one stalled dead at her first chapter.

Also from the list of ten orders in the back it really seems like Sanderson's basing two surges on the strong and weak nuclear forces. The giant nerd.
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Posted 21 March 2014 - 04:18 AM

Finished a few minutes ago. Took a couple days break after the duel where Kaladin was imprisoned. Just, fuck.

However, feel Sanderson pulled it out in the end, and Shallan's "witty" banter at dinner sold me on her. Rather than juvenile bullshit, pardon the pun, we got originality which actually makes sense as to why it would interest someone in such a regimented/repressed society.

Re Dalinar and being a radiant: We receive a clue earlier on that he had probably been sucking in stormlight unbeknownst to himself when we find out his shoulder is all sorts of fucked and yet still functions.

Jasnah should be dead. Szeth should be dead. I'll forever love Adolin for ramming a dagger into Sadeas.

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#39 User is offline   QuickTidal 

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Posted 21 March 2014 - 10:58 AM

I think my favourite Wit moment, is also my fave Cosmere moment. When he's telling Kaladin an anecdote and says "A Chick and a Bunny..."...and Kaladin is like "A chick? Like a chicken? and a what?"....and Wit is like "Oh. Right. I forgot where I was for a second there."

Laughed myself silly.

So apparently baby chickens aren't called chicks, and there are no rabbit's on Roshar. I wonder where Wit was talking about?
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#40 User is offline   Werthead 

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Posted 22 March 2014 - 04:48 PM

I think Sanderson has said that the two closest planets in the Cosmere to Earth are Scadrial (the Mistborn planet, although obviously not during it's volcanic ash phase) and Yolen, which is the original human homeworld in his cosmology but we haven't visited it yet. Given that Yolen is Wit/Hoid's homeworld (and the homeworld of all of the original Shardholders), that's probably the best bet.
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