[worry]

More evidence of the Karsa/KCNR thing is that the body was full of the Wu equivalent of nanotech.

[Puck]

Egwene, on 11 February 2014 - 09:01 PM, said:

At the beginning of tCG, Thulas Shorn is called 'Revenant' by the impaled T'lan Imass. Any idea why?

Revenant = animated corpse, which is kinda exactly what Tulas is. I don't think there's more significance to it.

worry, on 11 February 2014 - 09:18 PM, said:

More evidence of the Karsa/KCNR thing is that the body was full of the Wu equivalent of nanotech.

Not sure if that's a good evidence for KCNR, as we see nanotech all over the KCCM keeps in DoD and tCG.

[worry]

Well I mean as opposed to another lizard monster all together. Then that and the short tail point toward KCNR.

[Egwene]

Ah, I did not know that, Puck. I was thinking if their might be a connection with the Seguleh Revenants. Although, how on earth the T'lan Imass would know about that... so yes, your explenation is a far more likely one.

[Egwene]

worry, on 11 February 2014 - 10:01 PM, said:

Well I mean as opposed to another lizard monster all together. Then that and the short tail point toward KCNR.

Like your reasoning, Worry. If I had to make a bet, I would say KCNR but need a definite source to be able to include the description in the Wikia.



The next topic I'd like to enlist everyone's help with is the T'lan Imass. The Wikia entry isn't that large considering how prominent they are in the books. I was going to copy some of the quotes over from the wiki here and couldn't verify the source for the following:

The T’lan Imass, had they found Dejim, would have acted without hesitation. Dragging forth those seven demonic souls, binding them into an eternity of pain, their power bled out, slow and incrementally, to feed the T’lan Bonecasters in their unceasing wars against the Jaghut. - (RG UK HB, p.8)

Am I blind? I simply can not find that quote on the given page. Anyone know?

[Spoilsport Stonny]

That quote is improperly attributed to Reapers Gale. It's actually from The Bonehunters. You'll find it easily at the beginning.

This post has been edited by Spoilsport Stonny: 12 February 2014 - 02:08 PM

[Dolmen 2.0]

RE Thulas

First on Revenants:Wiki Revenant

Quote

A revenant is a visible ghost or animated corpse that was believed to return from the grave to terrorize the living.[1] The word "revenant" is derived from the Latin word, reveniens, "returning" (see also the related French verb "revenir", meaning "to come back").

Thulas Shorn was meant to effectively be dead. He "cheated death" by being taken by the Azath and returned to the living world after millenia of entombment.

Both Thulas and Edgewalker qualify in my opinion as high level undead. I have often been confused by this as I always thought the title belonged with Edgewalker but ultimately I think it tells of him (Thulas) being the shadow houses favoured "come back kid".

This post has been edited by Dolmen Weeks: 12 February 2014 - 02:12 PM

[Spoilsport Stonny]

Tulas wasn't taken by an Azath. He was in Hood's realm. Silchas was placed in the Azath.

This post has been edited by Spoilsport Stonny: 12 February 2014 - 06:19 PM

[Abyss]

Puck, on 11 February 2014 - 09:45 PM, said:

Egwene, on 11 February 2014 - 09:01 PM, said:

At the beginning of tCG, Thulas Shorn is called 'Revenant' by the impaled T'lan Imass. Any idea why?

Revenant = animated corpse, which is kinda exactly what Tulas is. I don't think there's more significance to it.

Egwene, on 11 February 2014 - 10:02 PM, said:

Ah, I did not know that, Puck. I was thinking if their might be a connection with the Seguleh Revenants. ...

Weren't the Revenants a mercenary company sworn to Hood?

I vaguely recall someone, StudLock possibly, was affiliated with them, but i don't think Madrun and Door were.

Puck, on 11 February 2014 - 09:45 PM, said:

worry, on 11 February 2014 - 09:18 PM, said:

More evidence of the Karsa/KCNR thing is that the body was full of the Wu equivalent of nanotech.

Not sure if that's a good evidence for KCNR, as we see nanotech all over the KCCM keeps in DoD and tCG.

worry, on 11 February 2014 - 10:01 PM, said:

Well I mean as opposed to another lizard monster all together. Then that and the short tail point toward KCNR.

That same evidence could as easily point to a KC Shigal, and the size element moreso.

[worry]

Well that's why it's evidence and not proof.

[D'rek]

For the FA thing (I know we're mostly done with it) - the idea of the Snake children, especially Badalle, being part-FA came up more after DoD, before TCG was released. I think post-TCG there's no more reason to consider this, as the events in Kolanse and the nature of what a Shriven is are better defined by TCG.

The drought in the Pelasiar Sea kingdoms comes before the FA came is due to the FA activities further north, I think. IIRC, there is some talk of Estobanse being the bread basket of the Kolanse region and the FA not only reducing the food production but some environmental tampering going on too. I'm sure this would have affected the Pelasiar Sea kingdoms, though whether that was the sole reason for the drought or just made it worse is not explicitly said.

Abyss, on 12 February 2014 - 07:17 PM, said:

Puck, on 11 February 2014 - 09:45 PM, said:

Egwene, on 11 February 2014 - 09:01 PM, said:

At the beginning of tCG, Thulas Shorn is called 'Revenant' by the impaled T'lan Imass. Any idea why?

Revenant = animated corpse, which is kinda exactly what Tulas is. I don't think there's more significance to it.

Egwene, on 11 February 2014 - 10:02 PM, said:

Ah, I did not know that, Puck. I was thinking if their might be a connection with the Seguleh Revenants. ...

Weren't the Revenants a mercenary company sworn to Hood?

I vaguely recall someone, StudLock possibly, was affiliated with them, but i don't think Madrun and Door were.

Studlock was indeed affiliated with them, but most of what we heard from them was from Sweetest Sufferance, who says her grandfather served in the company. They were supposedly commanded by an outlawed Seguleh and Hood took them all to serve in his realm.

[Egwene]

LATEST QUESTION:
Question 3: Updating Gruntle - who, what, where is this panther, his mistress that he talks about in chapter two, tCG?

[D'rek]

She refers to a New Morn at one of their meetings... I think she's in the future or pre-Pannion-in-the-rent distant past

[Egwene]

Do we know her under a different name or from other viewpoints? Or do we only come across here in Gruntle's dreams?

[Spoilsport Stonny]

Crippled God Spoiler:

Spoiler

it's Kilava

[D'rek]

Spoilsport Stonny, on 20 February 2014 - 01:30 PM, said:

Crippled God Spoiler:

Spoiler

it's Kilava

Maybe. But not assuredly, if I recall correctly...?

[Spoilsport Stonny]

Hmmm. Now you are making me think. I always thought it was

Spoiler

her trying to reach out to her son Treach, but that Treach was resisting her, so she had to get creative and appeal to Gruntle's heroic need to rescue the damsel (in this case, a panther) in distress. But once he got the cave and the SD gate, he was tired of being used and manipulated so fought her.

The panther woman says this while Gruntle is on his rampage:

Quote

‘When you find me,’ she continued, ‘it will not be as you imagine. We shall not meet as lovers. We shall not desire the same things. It may be we shall fight, you and me.’

This post has been edited by Spoilsport Stonny: 20 February 2014 - 04:31 PM

[Spoilsport Stonny]

Ah, I see the part that confuses things...

Spoiler

Quote

She spoke in his mind, that now familiar deep, liquid voice. 'Starvald Demelain, Mortal Sword, now commanding this place, transforming the very stone itself. No other gate remains. As for you … is this your god's panic? You should not be here. Tell him, Mortal Sword – tell my child – I will not permit your interference.'
Your child? You claim to be Trake's mother, do you?
He sensed a flash of irritation. 'First Swords, First Empire, First Heroes – we were a people proud of such things, for all the good it did us. I have birthed many children. Most of them are now dead.'
So is Trake.
'First Heroes were chosen, Mortal Sword, to become gods, and so escape death. All that he surrendered that day on the Plains of Lamatath was his mortal flesh. But like any god, he cannot risk becoming manifest, and so he created you. His Mortal Sword, the weapon of his will.'
Remind me to thank him for that.
'You must stand aside here,' she said. 'The Eleint are coming. If you seek to oppose them, you will die, Mortal Sword.'
No, what you fear is that I shall succeed.
'I will not permit that.'
Then it is you and I who shall fight in this cavern, as I have seen in my dreams—
'Dreams? You fool. I was trying to warn you.'
Black fur … blood, a dying breath – woman, these were not your sendings.
'There is little time left! Gruntle, do not challenge this!' She lifted her arms out to the sides. 'Look at me! I am Kilava Onass, a Bonecaster of the Imass. I defied the Ritual of Tellann, and my power beggars that of your human gods. What will occur here not even I can prevent – do you understand me? It is … necessary …'
He had expected such words, but still his hackles rose. It's what we always hear, isn't it? From generals and warlords and miserable tyrants. Justifying yet another nightmare epoch of slaughter. Of suffering, misery and despair. And what do we all do? We duck down and weather it. We tell ourselves that this is how it must be – I stood on the roof of a building, and all around me people were dying. And by my hand – gods! That building wept blood!
For what? They all died – the whole fucking city – all those people – they just died anyway!
I told Trake he chose wrongly. I was never a soldier – I despise war. I detest all the sordid lies about glory and honour – you, Kilava, if you have lived as long as you say you have, if Trake is your get, then you have seen a child of yours kneel to war – as if war itself was a damned god!
But still, you want him to live – you want your child-god, your First fucking Hero, to go on, and on. Wars without end. And the sword shall swing down and they shall fall – for ever more!
'Gruntle, why are you here?'
He advanced, feeling the blood within him rise to a boil. Haven't you guessed? I'm going to fight. I'm going to bring your son down – here and now. I'm going to kill the bastard. An end to the god of slaughter, of horror, of rape—
Kilava howled in sudden rage, vanished inside a blur of darkness. Veered into a panther as huge as Gruntle himself, she coiled to spring.
In his mind, he saw a single, quick nod. Yes. Baring his fangs, Gruntle lunged to meet her.

It's that "...woman, these were not your sendings." part. Hmmm...

This post has been edited by Spoilsport Stonny: 20 February 2014 - 05:08 PM

[Egwene]

Point about the spoiler policy first especially as it is a current topic on the encyclopedia board. I posted my plea here partly because the board does say that "Please be aware - there will be spoilers here up to and including the latest published books". I assume that means we are able to post without the warnings, yes?! I have added an extra warning to the topic header, just to be on the safe side...

I too initially thought of Kilava, but Gruntle's ponderings on page 39 hardback tCG don't seem to fit that. I can't remember where else he had visions of the panther... maybe those fortuitous people with Kindles in their pockets could do a quick search for 'black panther' and post the pages....

[worry]

People just like using the Spoiler tag regardless, Egwene. I think it might just be a pet peeve of yours to avoid them (here or on the wiki). Everyone else finds mountains of joy in clicking that little button and getting a reveal, or leaving little surprises for other people. In fact I'd say for some of us -- not naming names -- it's the best thing we get to do all day. Who could willingly deny someone that pleasure?