[Mr Knightmare]

I made this thread to hear what people like about this series because I was obviously not getting it.

All I got is people telling me how it's the most amazingly deep and awesome series ever made because it features a gajillion billion character on thousand different continents doing stuff that you're no supposed to understand because apparently what Erickson considers as "spoilers"every decent author with his head out of his own ass considers necessary infodump and that I must read everything at least 5 times before I'm able to get anything.

No mentions of intriguing storyline, no mentions of character development or story elements or interesting themes that will come up or a hint of what it to come no it's all about the size of it or people telling me to "yeah well I' m so smart that I got everything on my first read you should leave it!"

And honestly how could you tell me any of those thing because probably none of you know what you even read so there is no way to tell me anything.

Frankly if "size" is the only thing it has and that size involves a million pointless lifeless characters doing "stuff" with no clear direction I think I will move to other series because it's apparent that this book series is only for hipsters who don't want to like the "mainstream" stuff so they pretend that they like Erickson' terrible writing to appear cool in crow by talking about this series that no body understand but they totally do because they keep a fucking diary while reading it.

Good day everyone you shall not see me again.

[worry]

Welp, it appears Vengeance was right after all.

[Daeg]

Ha....that's the funniest freakin thing for the new year...I think that should go in the new member thread...


Welcome to malazan empire...we all hate mbotf but its cool to pretend like we like it...plus...when someone comes in talking crap...we have the gall to politely suggest picking another series...

[HoosierDaddy]

Mr Knightmare, on 07 January 2014 - 01:45 AM, said:

I made this thread to hear what people like about this series because I was obviously not getting it.

All I got is people telling me how it's the most amazingly deep and awesome series ever made because it features a gajillion billion character on thousand different continents doing stuff that you're no supposed to understand because apparently what Erickson considers as "spoilers"every decent author with his head out of his own ass considers necessary infodump and that I must read everything at least 5 times before I'm able to get anything.

No mentions of intriguing storyline, no mentions of character development or story elements or interesting themes that will come up or a hint of what it to come no it's all about the size of it or people telling me to "yeah well I' m so smart that I got everything on my first read you should leave it!"

And honestly how could you tell me any of those thing because probably none of you know what you even read so there is no way to tell me anything.

Frankly if "size" is the only thing it has and that size involves a million pointless lifeless characters doing "stuff" with no clear direction I think I will move to other series because it's apparent that this book series is only for hipsters who don't want to like the "mainstream" stuff so they pretend that they like Erickson' terrible writing to appear cool in crow by talking about this series that no body understand but they totally do because they keep a fucking diary while reading it.

Good day everyone you shall not see me again.

"I hate this series. All these things that are this series "strengths" according to you hipsters are things I hate about it. Don't you dare tell me this might not be the series for me! "

And done. Bye bye!

[amphibian]

Mr Knightmare, on 07 January 2014 - 01:45 AM, said:

Frankly if "size" is the only thing it has and that size involves a million pointless lifeless characters doing "stuff" with no clear direction I think I will move to other series because it's apparent that this book series is only for hipsters who don't want to like the "mainstream" stuff so they pretend that they like Erickson' terrible writing to appear cool in crow by talking about this series that no body understand but they totally do because they keep a fucking diary while reading it.

I wish only hipsters lived in a world where they moved through a world with a million pointless lifeless people who have no clear direction. It'd have made my life a lot easier if I had a clear direction of my own to go and do stuff with.

But that's real life. Not at all what you want to be reading about in a fantasy book. Euuuugh, that real life. Always intruding and ruining the mental dance party.

[worry]

Hmm. "Mr. Knightmare" sounds kinda like a few Dresden Files terms combined. Combine that with the passionate anti-hipster bias, the timing of the posts, the paragraphing style, and the argumentativeness, and I am thinking this is a gimmick account of none other than our very own QuickTidal!

Spoiler

[Daeg]

worry, on 07 January 2014 - 04:37 AM, said:

Hmm. "Mr. Knightmare" sounds kinda like a few Dresden Files terms combined. Combine that with the passionate anti-hipster bias, the timing of the posts, the paragraphing style, and the argumentativeness, and I am thinking this is a gimmick account of none other than our very own QuickTidal!

Spoiler

That would be awesome. At least it would be less redicules.

[Tarthenal Theloman Toblakai]

wow reading through this again the night after I first posted was a waste of my life haha, i suppose for every nice dude and dudette that is genuinely confused about something and apreciates intelligent discussion about a damn good book series there will be a kid (or adult) that is too stupid to accept the subtle nuiances of a book and the need to actually read on to find the ends of plots. What he hasn't realised is that even superpowers in the book have other super powers opposing them and no one character is almighty and the ones that come close are decent and honourable. I feel sorry for Mr. Troll that he will never apreciate this series i really do.

[Aptorian]

[Puts on fake Moderator mask]

Guys how about we try to keep it civil. The tone has steadily become more and more antagonistic. If you need to resort to calling people trolls maybe it is time to take a step back and breathe for an hour.

[removes fake Moderator mask]

Seriously now, we've had these discussions a thousand times. Don't start calling the guy a troll when the regulars are themselves going out of the way to pick on Knightmare.

Try to stick to the high road and don't just keep on repeating that the guy must obviously be dumb.

Personally I find it more interesting to hear peoples dislikes of the books, than reading another ZOMG THIS IS THE BEST thread.

This post has been edited by Not Brent Weeks: 07 January 2014 - 08:35 AM

[Tattersail_]

Mr Knightmare, on 07 January 2014 - 01:45 AM, said:

I made this thread to hear what people like about this series because I was obviously not getting it.

We have a strict no spoiler edict on this site. We can only talk to you about GotM at the moment because that is all you have read. I liked the first book. What was hard to follow? I didn't find this hard to follow and read through. What were your main scruples? Will you come back and comment after you have read Deadhouse Gates?

[Jade-Green Pig-Hog Swine-Beast]

Mr Knightmare, on 07 January 2014 - 01:45 AM, said:

Good day everyone you shall not see me again.

Good riddance day!

[Jade-Green Pig-Hog Swine-Beast]

Not Brent Weeks, on 07 January 2014 - 08:33 AM, said:

[Puts on fake Moderator mask]

Guys how about we try to keep it civil. The tone has steadily become more and more antagonistic. If you need to resort to calling people trolls maybe it is time to take a step back and breathe for an hour.

[removes fake Moderator mask]

To be honest I don't think that anyone has been particularly or undeservingly nasty in their replies.

The guy has only posted here with negative comments, even when people have been giving him good and reasonable advice.

I hate this, I hate that, this is shit, 'Erickson' is shit, YOU'RE shit!

He obviously doesn't want to continue or enjoy the series so why attempt to persuade him otherwise?

He may have started out with some decent discussion but he quickly devolved into mindless bashing and wouldn't take no (or yes) for an answer.

He doesn't need us and we don't need him.

[Aptorian]

THAT is why there will never be peace in the Middle East. I hope you are happy now, green pig.

[worry]

Heard the Fake Moderator Mask is actually just a William Shatner mask spray-painted white.

[Jade-Green Pig-Hog Swine-Beast]

You did back that up with a similar serious note!

Well, whatever. I am content.

[TheRetiredBridgeburner]

Knightmare's opinion wasn't dissimilar to my other half's when he tried Gardens. He said he'll try to finish it a second time and then give DH a try (I pretty much gave him the same advice which has been given to Knightmare - GoTM night not be for you, but at least try DH).

Although I'm not sure he's forgiven me yet for nearly falling off the sofa giggling when he said "It's just generic fantasy 2.0".

Much to learn you have, young Skywalker.

Although Erikson is marmite (and that's fine!) I'm not sure why you'd come to a forum dedicated to a work you don't like, just to spout about how much you don't like it and answer any advice given with "BUT I HATE IT".

This post has been edited by TheRetiredBridgeburner: 07 January 2014 - 11:57 AM

[Jade-Green Pig-Hog Swine-Beast]

That's interesting actually. Let's take a vote -- who here likes Marmite?

I do!

[Dolmen 2.0]

Mr Knightmare, on 07 January 2014 - 01:45 AM, said:

I made this thread to hear what people like about this series because I was obviously not getting it.

All I got is people telling me how it's the most amazingly deep and awesome series ever made because it features a gajillion billion character on thousand different continents doing stuff that you're no supposed to understand because apparently what Erickson considers as "spoilers"every decent author with his head out of his own ass considers necessary infodump and that I must read everything at least 5 times before I'm able to get anything.

No mentions of intriguing storyline, no mentions of character development or story elements or interesting themes that will come up or a hint of what it to come no it's all about the size of it or people telling me to "yeah well I' m so smart that I got everything on my first read you should leave it!"

And honestly how could you tell me any of those thing because probably none of you know what you even read so there is no way to tell me anything.

Frankly if "size" is the only thing it has and that size involves a million pointless lifeless characters doing "stuff" with no clear direction I think I will move to other series because it's apparent that this book series is only for hipsters who don't want to like the "mainstream" stuff so they pretend that they like Erickson' terrible writing to appear cool in crow by talking about this series that no body understand but they totally do because they keep a fucking diary while reading it.

Good day everyone you shall not see me again.

This thread was a fun read Mr. Knightmare. You came onto this site to talk about this book with such strong opinions. Would have been better to talk it through with friends, but still, I appreciate that you came in to figure it out. Let me atleast offer a reply to your last? messege.

Its true this isn't a series for everyone. It Doesn't mean people who like it are "Category A" and people who don't like it are "Category B" and there shall never be peace, the war shall last for eternity and no one will ever grow from the horror that is this opposing opinion. There are a few members of the site that have swung back and forth on the subject and we can still consider the series a common interest, we can still consider them friends. We aren't defined by our reading appetites any more than we are in our preference for TV shows.

The discussion over what people dislike in this series is pretty valuable. Makes us stop to think about our own opinion of the series, ten years on things look different and with good reason. We all changed after reading the first book, tastes changed etc. I hope after some time you do continue to read on as I thought GotM was a tough entry point and would rather you gave yourself time to read more Erikson because, like us, authors change too. In this case as you get to read Erikson he makes more sense and his work becomes more accessible and rewarding. The first book was not filtered down for an easy read, its not done this way to offend or alienate. The learning curve is steep so you get something new out of the books when you're used to them. That's why the rereads are popular but never mandatory to your experience. This has been the case for many of us on the site.

I admit to being weird, not sure i'm a hipster, but at any rate I don't need to sound or look smart smart liking these books. Enjoying them is not something I do for public recognition. If I'm honest I hide my books when guests come by, because they tend to look at me funny when they see the collection. The books are not exclusive to smart people, just easier to access maybe. The way I see it if you like fantasy and appreciate reading this is still worth your time as an experience. Think of it as starting a meal you don't particularly enjoy for the nutrition the meal will offer. We aren't lying when we say being confused initially is normal and makes the discovery further along more rewarding. The Malazan Books of the Fallen are a unique approach to writing a story but at their heart the books are loyal to the principle of good story telling and overall a great read. no need for diarizing the events, thats what the website is for. I insist (in a friendly way) that you read on to Memories of Ice. You get alot of what you're looking for by then and you'll be used to Eriksons world.

And if you don't its cool. I wish you luck whatever the case, whatever you read next I hope you enjoy.

[blackzoid]

There are some elements of the book that Mr Knightmare has criticised fairly. I will admit that when I first read it, I was really really annoyed by the Azath element being used to dispose of the Tyrant. The book was initially building up to Rake versus the Tyrant and while its fine that it wasn't Rake who dealt with it, it is very jarring to read about this living tree thingie that I had no prior connection with, solving the problem. And I remember flinging the book across the room when Paran fell into the Dragnipur sword after touching the Hounds head. "You have just barely survived one event, why the **** are you going messing around with this bizarre transcendent sword stuff! Why should I care about the Hounds souls?" Also, Rake, lets be honest here, has many Mary Sue like characteristics. Or whatever the term is. He is awesome. But hardly up to say Felisin character complexity. He DOES read like a bad fanfiction if you look at him on first reading.

I was indifferent to the POV shifting and odd language construction and lack of details. Yes, there is no denying that the series felt "sparse" as regards details, and still does, (can anyone actually imagine a "normal" human being who say, works as a baker in this setting. I can't, cos of lack of details of normal life. I can imagine assassins, swordsmen, mages, and soldiers, but not bakers, builders, cobblers etc. Lack of detail. SE's lower level people still don't feel real to me. But I never cared about those details to be honest)

Myself, I read GOTM, and left the series alone for several years. Then came back later when thinking about that "weird series where Shadow fights Dark, and some guy turns into a dragon and people fall into swords for no fricking logical reason!" and got the first 6 books cos I was bored. Read them all and loved them in one go. And rereads are awesome.

But still, looking back, while the Azath in GOTM makes great sense on a reread, if you still look back logically as a newcomer, its an awful example of Deus Ex Machina to me. This tree thing that magically solves our big problem coming out of nowhere? Argh! It should have been introduced much earlier on in GOTM I think. At least then it would not feel so-out of left field. But still, it was a big absense between books for SE and he did improve drastically in many ways. I can forgive much and carry on. So I did.

MR Knightmare, I think you should try R Scott Bakker maybe if Erikson is not your thing. Hes big and epic and got multiple characters too. I don't think he is as good as Erikson for craft ("Death came swirling down"), but you should at least give "The Darkness That Comes Before" a go. You might prefer it.

Also Windblade, Mr Knightmare? Fancy parachuted in-Transformer with cool sword that turns into a Jet. And who is getting own potential ongoing unlike other more established characters. Anomander Rake, fancy "Dark Elf" with cool sword that turns into a dragon. Who sort-of has own trilogy going on at moment.
Similarities abound...

This post has been edited by blackzoid: 07 January 2014 - 02:14 PM

[Spoilsport Stonny]

I like threads like these for several reasons:

1. The long-term forumites come out in droves with a concise and clear basis for their passion.
2. The newer guys like myself get to feel part of something by joining the "Why we fight" argument.
3. After a while it becomes less about why OP didn't enjoy book 1 of a 10 book series, and more about how little we expected ourselves to be awed beyond anything.

There are thousands of internet forums out there for fantasy book series and things of that kind. But I've never been to one that is as well-run as this one is. Members are so protective over the authors' works and I don't really see that as a bad thing. For us newer folks its probably more severe because they are newer to us. Either way, I'm actually surprised by the lack of trolls and trollish behavior here, and perhaps that's why this has already made it to page two of this thread: too much potential energy for excoriating the haturz.

Most times its best to ignore people like Mr. Knightmare. However in this case, it sets a nice example for new members to peruse as an example of how cool this forum is and how good the books must be that not only do we not all join in a public beatdown of OP, but we actually maintain civility and offer logical reasons for our Malaz love, without spoiling a goddamn thing, and eventually Emperor Knightmare is revealed to all - young and old - as wearing no clothes.

Read the books. Don't read the books. I assure you if you've come here to complain about them with a chip on your shoulder, you just might be in the wrong place. ASoIaF/Westeros is a great place to do just that.