Malazan Empire: Mafia 106 - The Name of the Rose - Malazan Empire

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Mafia 106 - The Name of the Rose Medieval mystery murder most foul!

#261 User is offline   Ghennan 

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 11:34 PM

This is my problem with what has been happening today. Because I feel like we have a tendency to pick on people who try to contribute a lot just because they're visible, and I don't want to do that. But Ultama has been so inconsistent today that I'm really not sure about him.

#262 User is offline   Trake 

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 11:48 PM

I'm going to start with the easiest summary.

Togg has made one post. However, let us not dismiss a player on post count alone! Thus, let us look at his post.

View PostTogg, on 23 October 2013 - 12:45 AM, said:

subsistence post Ill have more time after dinner tongith hopefully


Even his harshest critics must admit a rare daring. Not only does he defy the conventions of grammar and spelling, he defies the readers, the players, with the sheer blatancy of his motivation, all while challenging normal ideas of what may be counted as content.

It is, in my opinion, a striking display of minimalism.

Most obviously, he teases the reader with the possibility of him having more time. What may appear as somewhat clumsy word order upon a first glance is quickly understood to hold much deeper significance. By leaving the word "hopefully" until the very end of the sentence, he teases again, allowing hopes to briefly rise before re-introducing the murky ambiguity that marked his presence for the first 34 hours of the game.

Indeed, he leaves us hopeful in the very manner that he is, drawing us to relate with him. This technique is only further emphasised by the singularity of his post - nothing is presented that prevents such relation.

The ambiguity of his character is further heightened by his avoidance of any game related material, giving the impression that he is not within the game at all and contradicting his very presence in a manner that can only be applauded.

His example of "dinner" not only alludes to this lack of game concern, but returns to the motif introduced at the very start with "subsistence", inviting us to look at this theme from two completely different angles. Note how the eloquent "subsistence" refers to his presence in the game. Contrast this with the mundane "dinner". Yet, in an ironic twist, it is absolutely not the eloquent that he makes his priority. This point seems almost self-referential in regards to the nature of his minimalism itself - he is blunt, ineloquent, and that is what he prioritises, a point only heightened by the connotations of his more eloquent word with starvation.

I take back all of my earlier misgivings about Togg. In short, this single line achieves far more than another player might in a hundred posts, and perfectly embodies the succinct approach to mafia pioneered by players such as HiddenOne.

This post has been edited by Trake: 23 October 2013 - 11:48 PM


#263 User is offline   Lock 

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 12:02 AM

O do be careful, Trake! You will exhaust your supply of sarcasm and wit all in one post and be forced to use only literal monosyllables for the rest of the day.

Can I be next, please?

#264 User is offline   Trake 

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 12:05 AM

Ok, onto Cast next. Or Coast rather.

Almost no content yesterday. One post approaches it, and I tend to agree with the people who say it's pretending to be more than it is. The post has three parts.

1. D-day calculation and balance speculation (not really content in that it gives no read).

2. He doesn't like the idea of signalling because we don't know the exact setup, and there may be no symp. And even if there is he doesn't like signalling cases. This is slightly more involved in the game.

3. He doesn't like me. Jumps on the "erratic" bandwagon essentially, says I'm reacting under pressure. This part doesn't really make sense, since I wasn't reacting (I was acting), and I was under next to no pressure. I think I did point this out but he didn't come back to it.

So very little engagement with the game.

Then today we have this:

View PostCast, on 23 October 2013 - 01:51 PM, said:

Hey everyone! Sorry for not getting a vote in last night. Things happened, I didn't get to a computer before timeout. I know, no excuses, and I know it makes me look bad, but what else can I say, shit happens.

Though I obviously disagree with his accusations of me, I like the analysis that Ultama's making. I'm going to hopefully have the time to look deeper into some of the things he's said today and try to pick it apart a little. Work's kind of busy and whatnot, but I should have some more time to dedicate to Mafia today than I did yesterday!


Which struck me as being very non confrontational.

He likes Ultama's analysis. Which seems weird, I mean, if he disagrees with the conclusions, and has read it at all, you'd think he would find a problem straight off with the way Ultama analysed it...

Again, not really much content here.

#265 User is offline   Trake 

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 12:07 AM

View PostLock, on 24 October 2013 - 12:02 AM, said:

O do be careful, Trake! You will exhaust your supply of sarcasm and wit all in one post and be forced to use only literal monosyllables for the rest of the day.

Can I be next, please?


It was a tough decision between that and just FUUUUCCCCKKKK YOOUUUUU TOOOOGGGGGGG in massive red letters.

#266 User is offline   Trake 

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 12:08 AM

Also not sure I'll get round to everyone tonight, depends how fast I can go.

#267 User is offline   Path-Shaper 

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 12:09 AM

That's odd - why am I still listed as anonymous when I un-checked the anonymous box on sign-in?
Only someone with this much power could make this many frittatas without breaking any eggs.
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#268 User is offline   Fanderay 

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 12:19 AM

View PostTrake, on 23 October 2013 - 11:48 PM, said:

I'm going to start with the easiest summary.

Togg has made one post. However, let us not dismiss a player on post count alone! Thus, let us look at his post.

View PostTogg, on 23 October 2013 - 12:45 AM, said:

subsistence post Ill have more time after dinner tongith hopefully


Even his harshest critics must admit a rare daring. Not only does he defy the conventions of grammar and spelling, he defies the readers, the players, with the sheer blatancy of his motivation, all while challenging normal ideas of what may be counted as content.

It is, in my opinion, a striking display of minimalism.

Most obviously, he teases the reader with the possibility of him having more time. What may appear as somewhat clumsy word order upon a first glance is quickly understood to hold much deeper significance. By leaving the word "hopefully" until the very end of the sentence, he teases again, allowing hopes to briefly rise before re-introducing the murky ambiguity that marked his presence for the first 34 hours of the game.

Indeed, he leaves us hopeful in the very manner that he is, drawing us to relate with him. This technique is only further emphasised by the singularity of his post - nothing is presented that prevents such relation.

The ambiguity of his character is further heightened by his avoidance of any game related material, giving the impression that he is not within the game at all and contradicting his very presence in a manner that can only be applauded.

His example of "dinner" not only alludes to this lack of game concern, but returns to the motif introduced at the very start with "subsistence", inviting us to look at this theme from two completely different angles. Note how the eloquent "subsistence" refers to his presence in the game. Contrast this with the mundane "dinner". Yet, in an ironic twist, it is absolutely not the eloquent that he makes his priority. This point seems almost self-referential in regards to the nature of his minimalism itself - he is blunt, ineloquent, and that is what he prioritises, a point only heightened by the connotations of his more eloquent word with starvation.

I take back all of my earlier misgivings about Togg. In short, this single line achieves far more than another player might in a hundred posts, and perfectly embodies the succinct approach to mafia pioneered by players such as HiddenOne.



:rant:

you know you're a humanities major when......

#269 User is offline   Ghennan 

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 12:30 AM

View PostTrake, on 23 October 2013 - 11:48 PM, said:

I'm going to start with the easiest summary.

Togg has made one post. However, let us not dismiss a player on post count alone! Thus, let us look at his post.

View PostTogg, on 23 October 2013 - 12:45 AM, said:

subsistence post Ill have more time after dinner tongith hopefully


Even his harshest critics must admit a rare daring. Not only does he defy the conventions of grammar and spelling, he defies the readers, the players, with the sheer blatancy of his motivation, all while challenging normal ideas of what may be counted as content.

It is, in my opinion, a striking display of minimalism.

Most obviously, he teases the reader with the possibility of him having more time. What may appear as somewhat clumsy word order upon a first glance is quickly understood to hold much deeper significance. By leaving the word "hopefully" until the very end of the sentence, he teases again, allowing hopes to briefly rise before re-introducing the murky ambiguity that marked his presence for the first 34 hours of the game.

Indeed, he leaves us hopeful in the very manner that he is, drawing us to relate with him. This technique is only further emphasised by the singularity of his post - nothing is presented that prevents such relation.

The ambiguity of his character is further heightened by his avoidance of any game related material, giving the impression that he is not within the game at all and contradicting his very presence in a manner that can only be applauded.

His example of "dinner" not only alludes to this lack of game concern, but returns to the motif introduced at the very start with "subsistence", inviting us to look at this theme from two completely different angles. Note how the eloquent "subsistence" refers to his presence in the game. Contrast this with the mundane "dinner". Yet, in an ironic twist, it is absolutely not the eloquent that he makes his priority. This point seems almost self-referential in regards to the nature of his minimalism itself - he is blunt, ineloquent, and that is what he prioritises, a point only heightened by the connotations of his more eloquent word with starvation.

I take back all of my earlier misgivings about Togg. In short, this single line achieves far more than another player might in a hundred posts, and perfectly embodies the succinct approach to mafia pioneered by players such as HiddenOne.


This is quite possibly my favourite post ever. Out nearly made me burst out laughing in the middle of my class. Tip of the hat to you, my friend.

#270 User is offline   Ghennan 

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 12:55 AM

So, we have about 14 hours left. Who is everyone leaning towards? I'm thinking either Jalan or Cast

#271 User is offline   Trake 

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 01:11 AM

Hanas next. Coasts day one.

When he comes back, we get this:

View PostHanas, on 23 October 2013 - 12:22 PM, said:

First impression: Monok Ochem is turning the fairly valid middle-of-the-road accusation into a WIFOM-case by self-voting, at a time where he 'established' that someone else is the only option anyway. I'd say it's a gamble based on the fact that in the collective memory this ridiculous meltdown will survive, not the previous accusation - a meltdown that is then explainable.

Now to forge on. I'll be posting with pauses - still have work to do.


Fairly obvious topic. Seems to be implying MO as symp here.

He does a summary of day one, talks about me and Ultama, it's all pretty non-commital really.

He then picks up Ultama here:

View PostHanas, on 23 October 2013 - 02:05 PM, said:

View PostUltama, on 23 October 2013 - 08:01 AM, said:

Here, awake and surprised I am alive. Why the fuck we couldn't get a lynch is beyond me, I knew it, I knew Togg would come on with a last minute, "I will post more at a later time" promise. It's not a huge deal we didn't lynch as it pushes D day back which the scum will not like. Now to have a look at everyone and see why people are keeping low, why we didn't get a lynch and anything else that comes to mind.


I can't help but ask how it is not a big deal for town considering we delay a lynch on a consensus suspicious character - whether that's you, or Monok, or Trake, or Togg, or whomever. Because unless we shift play style dramatically, we will just do the day 1 lynch day 2, and we're a full day behind on acting on our suspicions.


Again, pretty obvious points, just the usual lynch better than no lynch stuff. Seems like good to pick up.

But it's also worth noting in the context of what he goes next.

View PostHanas, on 23 October 2013 - 02:16 PM, said:

Argh. Between Grasp - Trake and now Fanderay - Ultama this is devolving rapidly in hissy-fit sniping. It should at the least be entertaining....
That being said, someone is coming apart.

[..]

View PostUltama, on 23 October 2013 - 01:55 PM, said:

Scrap that, you voted for me, then disappeared until the next day. You left your vote and was not around to change or discuss things any further. Also look at your reason for vote.

View PostFanderay, on 22 October 2013 - 08:26 PM, said:

View PostUltama, on 22 October 2013 - 03:59 PM, said:

You are quite funny Trake. This is a very low TDMi game, why would someone signal in a low TDMi game? No one is dumb enough to signal. Voting Togg for nothing better than to lynch a non active player. My reason is posted right underneath my vote. You don't like the reason? Go suck a dick. It's my reason and I don't see a better option or didn't at the time.


just like no one's dumb enough to WIFOM on Day 1?

vote Ultama

catching up




View PostUltama, on 23 October 2013 - 01:56 PM, said:

So that is not the best reason, but you don't post after you catch up. Monok follows your vote and if Trake was smart and wanted a lynch he could have voted for me and the train could have really got underway.


Are you trying to invalidate another player's earlier vote solely based on their participation, when they point out a WIFOM straight from the book?
And you pick a top 4 and are 'sure' about it (but don't name them or say why), on day 2, a day without a lynch or train analysis? Ultama, you're getting off the rails with a little bit of pressure and some namecalling.
I don't hold your wrong recollection of whether or not Fanderay voted you against you as much as he does (although the fact that you accuse him without checking is worrying), but your play is sketchy and smells like panic, even more so since you don't fact check.

Basically, you opened the gates for a (100% speculative) case to be constructed about starting a train on a non-participant to seem active (because scum don't start trains, dontchaknow),only to then Silencer style NK the guy who votes you first.


Note, while he portrays it as a pissing contest, he's very definitely attacking Ultama, and defending Fanderay. Ultama's criticism of Fanderay claiming to be catching up and then disappearing is pretty valid really. It's a standard thing to pick up. Yet Hanas portrays it as "trying to invalidate another player's earlier vote solely based on their participation". Which really skips the specific point, in favour of a rather damning generalisation. Reading Hanas, you'd think Ultama had posted "fuck off, your post count is too low to have an opinion", as opposed to "you said you were catching up and then showed no sign of posting".

It is really noticeable how much Hanas mentions Fanderay. These are extracted from all his subsequent posts till now:

View PostHanas, on 23 October 2013 - 02:22 PM, said:

I'd say only the current game counts, as the past is the past.
As for a reason... pff. Non-participation, mid-train switch, OM halting his lynch (I'm firmly with Fanderay on that topic). Pick your reason. Or have two at the price of one. .


View PostHanas, on 23 October 2013 - 02:49 PM, said:

View PostUltama, on 23 October 2013 - 02:39 PM, said:

I can see what people are saying about Monok being a killer but I don't think symp has crossed their minds.


It crossed Fanderay's.
Your argument of MO not posting enough to be a symp is invalid. His window of posting opportunity does not dictate his role, nor does his role dictate his window of posting.



View PostHanas, on 23 October 2013 - 03:23 PM, said:

Depends on the PoV. See what Fanderay posts.


It's just something I picked up on when looking at all his posts. It just jumps out at you - Fanderay, Fanderay, Fanderay, Fanderay, every post you know? By the end I was thinking "get a room", but perhaps they have one already.

He mentions very few other players. When he does mention others, it's on things like Monok, or attacking Ultama. It didn't feel like he mentioned other people in the same way - looking at what they were saying about others etc, as opposed to just taking issue with their posts. Like primary vs. secondary sources as a comparison.

I mean, you're allowed to agree with people. It just struck me noteworthy that the only time I felt he's really got involved has been to strongly agree with Fanderay and to attack the person Fanderay was attacking (even though he saw it as a hissy-fit argument).

This post has been edited by Trake: 24 October 2013 - 01:11 AM


#272 User is offline   Trake 

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 01:15 AM

View PostGhennan, on 24 October 2013 - 12:30 AM, said:

This is quite possibly my favourite post ever. Out nearly made me burst out laughing in the middle of my class. Tip of the hat to you, my friend.


Thanks :rant:

View PostFanderay, on 24 October 2013 - 12:19 AM, said:


:rant:

you know you're a humanities major when......


Fanderay is obviously scum. We'd have won by now if such powers of deduction were on our side. :)

#273 User is offline   Grasp 

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 01:16 AM

View PostGhennan, on 24 October 2013 - 12:55 AM, said:

So, we have about 14 hours left. Who is everyone leaning towards? I'm thinking either Jalan or Cast


Cast most definitely, so long as he doesn't modkill himself.

Vote Cast


#274 User is offline   Trake 

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 01:26 AM

View PostGhennan, on 24 October 2013 - 12:55 AM, said:

So, we have about 14 hours left. Who is everyone leaning towards? I'm thinking either Jalan or Cast


Hmm, could you expand on why?

#275 User is offline   Ghennan 

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 01:46 AM

View PostTrake, on 24 October 2013 - 01:26 AM, said:

View PostGhennan, on 24 October 2013 - 12:55 AM, said:

So, we have about 14 hours left. Who is everyone leaning towards? I'm thinking either Jalan or Cast


Hmm, could you expand on why?


Not really, apart from the feeling that both of them are low content posters trying to look like they have made more contribution than they have. But I'm playing on my phone in class, so a more coherent post will have to wait.

#276 User is offline   Trake 

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 02:08 AM

View PostGhennan, on 24 October 2013 - 01:46 AM, said:

View PostTrake, on 24 October 2013 - 01:26 AM, said:

View PostGhennan, on 24 October 2013 - 12:55 AM, said:

So, we have about 14 hours left. Who is everyone leaning towards? I'm thinking either Jalan or Cast


Hmm, could you expand on why?


Not really, apart from the feeling that both of them are low content posters trying to look like they have made more contribution than they have. But I'm playing on my phone in class, so a more coherent post will have to wait.


Well, Cast hasn't posted much of anything at all, and trying too hard to seem helpful does seem to be the tone a lot of people took from his big post, so I can see that.

Jalan otoh has posted quite a lot, so you really must not think much of the content...

#277 User is offline   Trake 

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 02:26 AM

Anyhow, I've got to be off for the night. Tomorrow is busy, particularly in the morning, but I ought to be able to chime in with a good 4-5 hours left.

I think I'll

Vote Fanderay

Before I head off though, particularly on account of Hanas' behaviour. There seems to be more evidence of connection there as opposed to individual odd bits of play, particularly since the MO modkill knocked the wind out of the Ultama connection a bit.

#278 User is offline   Path-Shaper 

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 07:25 AM

It is Day 2. 9 hours and 15 minutes remaining.


10 players alive: Cast, Fanderay, Ghennan, Grasp, Hanas, Jalan, Lock, Togg, Trake, Ultama

6 votes to lynch, 5 votes to go to night.

1 vote Ultama: Fanderay
1 vote Fanderay: Trake

Players not voted: Cast, Ghennan, Grasp, Hanas, Jalan, Lock, Togg, Ultama
Only someone with this much power could make this many frittatas without breaking any eggs.
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#279 User is offline   Hanas 

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 07:44 AM

View PostTrake, on 24 October 2013 - 02:26 AM, said:

Anyhow, I've got to be off for the night. Tomorrow is busy, particularly in the morning, but I ought to be able to chime in with a good 4-5 hours left.

I think I'll

Vote Fanderay

Before I head off though, particularly on account of Hanas' behaviour. There seems to be more evidence of connection there as opposed to individual odd bits of play, particularly since the MO modkill knocked the wind out of the Ultama connection a bit.

If you see it as me riding his coattails, fine. As for symping/ fake-symping him, well, I could see the possibility, although it is so extremely blatant and hardly needed when it comes to Ultama, who is perfectly capable of self-destructing spectacularly anyway.

I'd say the factual reason is quite simple, really. Ultama, I and Fanderay were on at the same time, which was while Ultama was having his pocket-meltdown, which was then the natural subject to discuss.
When there's three active players you tend to communicate with each other, about each other.

#280 User is offline   Ultama 

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 09:33 AM

I am here, going to read up.

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