[Lock]

Thinking of Ultama as symp right now, not sure of his boss

[Monok Ochem]

Having given this a little thought, I am really not in the right state of mind for a game of Mafia right now. I submit most humbly myapologies for signing up - I thought it would take my mind away from RL issues, it hasn't.

It is hurting team too which isn't good play.

Ultama is keen to label me as town which is insightful since I am, however his reasons for doing so are suspect because I've been playing as I am deliberately to draw out opinions on what isn't good town play and expose biases. Oh and winding up those people who like good, coherent English grammar and punctuation (of which I am one I freely admit)

Those of you who think I'm scummy, this'll blow your mind.

Khell, please modkill me.

Sorry again folks.

[Ultama]

Was about to go to bed, had a little catch up and even I am confused about how I have come across. It certainly wasn't intentional. As regards to Monok, he did say one killer one symp, that is mechanics right? That isn't speculating on town roles like what Cast did. However, your points about Monok are valid and I am not going to discredit them. I may contradict myself in this post.

• During day one I, (as it happened), I thought of Monok as town. He came across to me that way.
• During day two, (as it is happening0 i think of Monok as potential scum. Why? I am glad you asked, his fucking one post is scummy as hell, one post to clarify his fucking antics day one when everyone is mentioning them. What the fuck is all that about.
• Post wise I had him linked with the person who had similar amount of posts as him. I think that was Cast.
• Now my point before analysing each train, was that I thought that one of Cast and Monok is scum, with someone like Jalan or Grasp as their partner. That was solely based on posts and where they lied within the game. ie Both Grasp and Jalan had 12 posts and both Cast and Monok had 5 posts.
• I was thinking along the lines of where scum would want to be post wise going into day two. or am I wrong that scum think of where their posts are, and how many compared to others that they have?
• After going through the 4 people I preferred Cast as scum OVER Monok from their day one posts. I also preferred Jalan over Grasp as their scum partner. So I was basically saying out of the 4, that Jalan and Cast are partenered.
• However, YOU ALL THINK THAT THE REMOVAL OF VOTE FROM ME BY MONOK IS SCUMMY BECAUSE IT HALTED THE TRAIN/LYNCH ON DAY ONE.
• I see your point. Which is making me flip flop over Monok. Is he scum or isn't he.
• Yet I also see Cast didn't vote day one, so which is worse? Not voting to get a lynch or voting and remove voting and making yourself a target like that? I accepted the fact that Monok used RL as an excuse for self voting. They are not having a good week. They did say that did they not? So feeling a little sympathy for Monok I accepted that excuse. so sue me, I am a nice guy and don't care if you lot want to be insensitive on that point.

now to answer the question, yes I would vote Monok today but my heart would not be 100% in it. I would only be voting for him to get a lynch because you fucks have all convinced me he is guilty.




personally I would prefer Cast or Jalan as the main lynch. yes because of posting and because that is where my heart is. It's so funny how everyone is concentrating on me or Monok when there are 9 other people uninvestigated or pressurised. I am going to bed but I hope this post helps a little with what I was thinking.

[Lock]

Can't we get a substitute instead of a modkill on MO?

[Ultama]

Cross post.

Sorry to hear that Monok. I hope all gets better soon.


Also goodnight everyone else.

[Lock]

So Togg has posted once in the game


I am kind of going the other way on Ultama after reading some more of his posts, seems like he's playing the game by trying to cover the whole infield.

[Path-Shaper]

Monok Ochem has been modkilled by request.


It is Day 2. 17 hours and 37 minutes remaining.


10 players alive: Cast, Fanderay, Ghennan, Grasp, Hanas, Jalan, Lock, Togg, Trake, Ultama

6 votes to lynch, 5 votes to go to night.

1 vote Ultama: Fanderay


Players not voted: Cast, Ghennan, Grasp, Hanas, Jalan, Lock, Togg, Trake, Ultama

This post has been edited by Path-Shaper: 23 October 2013 - 10:04 PM

[Ghennan]

Jalan, on 23 October 2013 - 06:59 PM, said:

So reading back, it seems to me that if I apply Ultama's logic of why he thinks people are scum to himself who is already going totally off the wall, it looks like Ultama is the symp to Ghennan.

(Please for the love of god read this with your tongue in your cheek)

Ultama, on 23 October 2013 - 09:18 AM, said:

Whilst looking at a couple of players, a thought did strike me that the killer may have off thread communication which would affect their online presence in thread. So those with low but content ridden posts ring higher on my scum dar, they are taking the time to construct posts on thread but not many of them.

Fits Ghennan? Check

Ultama, on 23 October 2013 - 09:28 AM, said:

Cast has on thread interaction with Jalan, with only 4/5 posts this stands out to me a little because that is something you establish off thread. There have been times when I have been scum and that my pardner has asked for a little interaction so that it looks a little like we don't know each other. So Cast makes a post that both Fanderay and Jalan respond to.

There was a fancy little bit of Ultama-Ghennan interaction earlier today, though the "best post evar" bit from Ultama might've been overdoing it.

Ultama, on 23 October 2013 - 10:14 AM, said:

Back to casualness.

I think Grasp does not want to come across as confrontational. I think we can count on their vote though when it gets down to it.

That sounds like Ghennan too! His comments on the cases have been very non-critical no matter which way he is commenting.

Ultama, on 23 October 2013 - 10:23 AM, said:

Page one is the Jalan show. Look how eager he is to contribute. Biggest play style change of day one is his reclusion (not a word but I like it)(actually it says the condition of being a recluse). Page one he has the majority of his posts with a brief interaction with Fanderay and Cast.

Page 1 is the non-Ghennan show. Look how eager he is to not show up and only post once on day. Biggest play style change of the first couple days is his emulsion (not a word but I like it). Day 1 he has almost no posts except a sudden vote with explanation. Day 2 he suddenly is a contributing member of town with lots of commentary and posts!


So Ultama is a spasming symp and by his very own scumdar logic Ghennan is the real killer!

IGMEOY Ghennan boy!

What!? I'm outraged! I should sling personal attacks at you and then self-vote and flounce off in umbrage!

[Ghennan]

In a more serious note, goddammit. I'd rather vote off people and get their c.f. than have them modkilled and not know.

[Lock]

Ultama, on 23 October 2013 - 09:18 AM, said:

Whilst looking at a couple of players, a thought did strike me that the killer may have off thread communication which would affect their online presence in thread. So those with low but content ridden posts ring higher on my scum dar, they are taking the time to construct posts on thread but not many of them.

Your whole pairing theory is causing my head to tense up.

This other speculation is plausible but nonetheless WIFOM

[Fanderay]

that was anti-climactic.

[Trake]

Sorry to hear that MO.

It's a shame that you felt you couldn't keep playing, but that being the case, thanks for choosing to be modkilled instead of letting it affect the game more.

Hope everything picks up soon

[Trake]

Ghennan, on 23 October 2013 - 10:11 PM, said:

In a more serious note, goddammit. I'd rather vote off people and get their c.f. than have them modkilled and not know.

Modkill ought to have as little effect as possible on the game.

If we had lynched him, we'd have lost a man extra.

If the inno CF stops us lynching someone we might have, it gains us a man.

So in this case, the impact of witholding vs. not is about the same.

The greater impact is if he had CF'd scum, because having that CF vs. not having it is big.

So in this case, given he was looking the most likely lynch (imo), I probably would say witholding has more impact than not doing so. But it's the mods call at the end of the day, since they've got the information and we don't, it's hard to say which way is better in a given case.

[Trake]

Though really regardless of MO's CF, there's a lot going on with Ultama's reasoning that's dubious in it's own right.

[Ghennan]

Lock, on 23 October 2013 - 09:34 PM, said:

Thinking of Ultama as symp right now, not sure of his boss

I'm confused by this. I assume you think that he is trying to distract from someone, which surely should give you some idea of who his boss is. And if you don't think he is trying to deflect from someone, what makes you think he's a symp?

[Trake]

Ultama, on 23 October 2013 - 09:54 PM, said:

• During day one I, (as it happened), I thought of Monok as town. He came across to me that way.
• During day two, (as it is happening0 i think of Monok as potential scum. Why? I am glad you asked, his fucking one post is scummy as hell, one post to clarify his fucking antics day one when everyone is mentioning them. What the fuck is all that about.

I'm fairly certain Ultama mentioned him as one of his four before this post...

Reading that post (and his earlier cases), it seems his theory is thus:

-Scum are likely to be in certain areas of the game, activity wise. In particular, they will be in roughly the same area.
-These are the area pairings.
-MO is scummy because of this, rather than anything he's actually done.
-MO isn't that scummy based on what he's actually done, thus the others are more likely scum.

Fundamentally I don't agree with this reasoning.

But it does somewhat explain why MO was in his suspect 4 (which is simply the grouping of players where he thinks scum will be, much like someone saying they think scum will be in a certain area on a train but less sensible), without him seeming to actually find his behaviour that bad.

I think that's what he's getting at anyhow.

[Lock]

Ghennan, on 23 October 2013 - 10:31 PM, said:

Lock, on 23 October 2013 - 09:34 PM, said:

Thinking of Ultama as symp right now, not sure of his boss

I'm confused by this. I assume you think that he is trying to distract from someone, which surely should give you some idea of who his boss is. And if you don't think he is trying to deflect from someone, what makes you think he's a symp?

kind of, but with no clue who he would be symping - I was basing this on the many observations made by others and the general appearance of his play but after further reading on previous pages, I feel less inclined to suspect him just on the generalities. That's not to say I'm not still looking at him

[Lock]

Trake, on 23 October 2013 - 10:40 PM, said:

Ultama, on 23 October 2013 - 09:54 PM, said:

• During day one I, (as it happened), I thought of Monok as town. He came across to me that way.
• During day two, (as it is happening0 i think of Monok as potential scum. Why? I am glad you asked, his fucking one post is scummy as hell, one post to clarify his fucking antics day one when everyone is mentioning them. What the fuck is all that about.

I'm fairly certain Ultama mentioned him as one of his four before this post...

Reading that post (and his earlier cases), it seems his theory is thus:

-Scum are likely to be in certain areas of the game, activity wise. In particular, they will be in roughly the same area.
-These are the area pairings.
-MO is scummy because of this, rather than anything he's actually done.
-MO isn't that scummy based on what he's actually done, thus the others are more likely scum.

Fundamentally I don't agree with this reasoning.

But it does somewhat explain why MO was in his suspect 4 (which is simply the grouping of players where he thinks scum will be, much like someone saying they think scum will be in a certain area on a train but less sensible), without him seeming to actually find his behaviour that bad.

I think that's what he's getting at anyhow.

it could be said that he is trying to find a pattern and then force people into it - I have some trouble with that as well

[Trake]

I feel like it's a good time to re-read the thread, and try and get a general feel for everyone. I'm feeling like there are some people I've very little read on/am totally overlooking, so I'm going to do a summary of my thoughts on everyone and see if anything sticks out.

[Trake]

Lock, on 23 October 2013 - 10:42 PM, said:

Trake, on 23 October 2013 - 10:40 PM, said:

Ultama, on 23 October 2013 - 09:54 PM, said:

• During day one I, (as it happened), I thought of Monok as town. He came across to me that way.
• During day two, (as it is happening0 i think of Monok as potential scum. Why? I am glad you asked, his fucking one post is scummy as hell, one post to clarify his fucking antics day one when everyone is mentioning them. What the fuck is all that about.

I'm fairly certain Ultama mentioned him as one of his four before this post...

Reading that post (and his earlier cases), it seems his theory is thus:

-Scum are likely to be in certain areas of the game, activity wise. In particular, they will be in roughly the same area.
-These are the area pairings.
-MO is scummy because of this, rather than anything he's actually done.
-MO isn't that scummy based on what he's actually done, thus the others are more likely scum.

Fundamentally I don't agree with this reasoning.

But it does somewhat explain why MO was in his suspect 4 (which is simply the grouping of players where he thinks scum will be, much like someone saying they think scum will be in a certain area on a train but less sensible), without him seeming to actually find his behaviour that bad.

I think that's what he's getting at anyhow.

it could be said that he is trying to find a pattern and then force people into it - I have some trouble with that as well

Pretty much yeah. But the question is whether it's scummy, or just a bad idea.