[Tattersail_]

 D, on 25 October 2013 - 03:11 PM, said:

 Khellendros, on 25 October 2013 - 03:08 PM, said:

What is Security Council?

You get a VP and a VP for every diplomatic relation you have at the end of the game. I guess it's good if you are going to have lots of diplomacy and not do much fighting, especially if you have no ancients around you. But otherwise if there are ancients to fight or you will fight other players enough (or both) odds are good you can get 3- or 4-VP reputation tiles in your reputation slots, which are still better than ambassadors with the security council +1.

aah, that's better than say 1vp for battle points. you get one for relation + 1 for having council, + 2 for getting it in the first place.

[D'rek]

 Ganoes Paran, on 25 October 2013 - 03:15 PM, said:

 D, on 25 October 2013 - 03:11 PM, said:

 Khellendros, on 25 October 2013 - 03:08 PM, said:

What is Security Council?

You get a VP and a VP for every diplomatic relation you have at the end of the game. I guess it's good if you are going to have lots of diplomacy and not do much fighting, especially if you have no ancients around you. But otherwise if there are ancients to fight or you will fight other players enough (or both) odds are good you can get 3- or 4-VP reputation tiles in your reputation slots, which are still better than ambassadors with the security council +1.

aah, that's better than say 1vp for battle points. you get one for relation + 1 for having council, + 2 for getting it in the first place.

I think it's just +1 for getting it in the first place.

[Imperial Historian]

Hang on Gnaw discarded the double ancient?

anyone with images of the hexes, whats the wormhole orientation of 106?

Thinking I might be able to make a move without gnaws orientation after all, though I guess tapper won't want to make a move until he knows Gnaws orientation

[Tattersail_]

 Imperial Historian, on 25 October 2013 - 03:17 PM, said:

Hang on Gnaw discarded the double ancient?

anyone with images of the hexes, whats the wormhole orientation of 106?

Thinking I might be able to make a move without gnaws orientation after all, though I guess tapper won't want to make a move until he knows Gnaws orientation

No he discarded arcturus.

[Tattersail_]

Yes, I see that now D'rek. 1 VP for getting the council and then one for each relation at the end of the game. It's okay, I was thinking last game diplo relations didn't give enough VP.

[D'rek]

 Imperial Historian, on 25 October 2013 - 03:17 PM, said:

Hang on Gnaw discarded the double ancient?

anyone with images of the hexes, whats the wormhole orientation of 106?

Thinking I might be able to make a move without gnaws orientation after all, though I guess tapper won't want to make a move until he knows Gnaws orientation

Wormhole orientation of 106 is 4 wormholes in a row (and 2 blank sides).

[Tattersail_]

 Imperial Historian, on 25 October 2013 - 03:17 PM, said:

Hang on Gnaw discarded the double ancient?

anyone with images of the hexes, whats the wormhole orientation of 106?

Thinking I might be able to make a move without gnaws orientation after all, though I guess tapper won't want to make a move until he knows Gnaws orientation

It's in this post http://forum.malazan...ost__p__1092291

He is draco, so got two hexes and dropped one. Kept and influenced the ancient hex, (he can influence because he is draco)

[D'rek]

 Ganoes Paran, on 25 October 2013 - 03:19 PM, said:

Yes, I see that now D'rek. 1 VP for getting the council and then one for each relation at the end of the game. It's okay, I was thinking last game diplo relations didn't give enough VP.

The way I see it, combat almost always gives more, unless you are very, very unlucky or you only start fighting ancients+people late in the game. You can either keep your reputation slots open for getting more VP with combat, or fill them up with ambassadors for fewer VP but you do get the resource boost.

Security Council gives you a bit more VP if you take the second route, but still not as much as combat. And it does cost you more resources to buy it, so you're turning the resources that make your ambassadors worth the lower VP into a bit more VP... but still not as much as combat.

It's the kind of thing that could be worth it for me to get, since I am stuck in a corner and probably won't be fighting much all game unless I find a warp portal. But even then, if I can only have diplomatic relations with Khell and maybe one other person, is 6 resources early in the game for 3 VP really worth it? I say probably not, but if Security Council is still around late in the game I may go for it when the cost isn't so bad.

This post has been edited by D'rek: 25 October 2013 - 03:24 PM

[Khellendros]

Thanks for the explanation

[Imperial Historian]

Yes arcturus is the double ancient hex, I'm surprised he didn't keep it. Though thinking on it with the discard is automatically brought back into play it makes sense (though I'm pretty sure that isn't how tier 1 works)

Hmmm what does everyone else think? explore towards gnaw and stop him potentially walling himself off or explore towards CF and potentially get an extra tier 1 hex? I can't decide! it would be much easier if I knew gnaws orientation.

[Tattersail_]

 Imperial Historian, on 25 October 2013 - 03:30 PM, said:

Yes arcturus is the double ancient hex, I'm surprised he didn't keep it. Though thinking on it with the discard is automatically brought back into play it makes sense (though I'm pretty sure that isn't how tier 1 works)

Hmmm what does everyone else think? explore towards gnaw and stop him potentially walling himself off or explore towards CF and potentially get an extra tier 1 hex? I can't decide! it would be much easier if I knew gnaws orientation.

So is hex 108 only one ancient and the other hex two ancients? I did not know, how can you tell?

[twelve]

 Imperial Historian, on 25 October 2013 - 03:17 PM, said:

Hang on Gnaw discarded the double ancient?

anyone with images of the hexes, whats the wormhole orientation of 106?

Thinking I might be able to make a move without gnaws orientation after all, though I guess tapper won't want to make a move until he knows Gnaws orientation

I forgot my cheat sheet at home on my flash drive so I won't be any help today.

And I was shocked that Gnaw discarded the double ancient as well.

This post has been edited by twelve: 25 October 2013 - 03:36 PM

[D'rek]

 Ganoes Paran, on 25 October 2013 - 03:34 PM, said:

 Imperial Historian, on 25 October 2013 - 03:30 PM, said:

Yes arcturus is the double ancient hex, I'm surprised he didn't keep it. Though thinking on it with the discard is automatically brought back into play it makes sense (though I'm pretty sure that isn't how tier 1 works)

Hmmm what does everyone else think? explore towards gnaw and stop him potentially walling himself off or explore towards CF and potentially get an extra tier 1 hex? I can't decide! it would be much easier if I knew gnaws orientation.

So is hex 108 only one ancient and the other hex two ancients? I did not know, how can you tell?

There's either 1 little skull in the middle or 2.

[D'rek]

 twelve, on 25 October 2013 - 03:34 PM, said:

 Imperial Historian, on 25 October 2013 - 03:17 PM, said:

Hang on Gnaw discarded the double ancient?

anyone with images of the hexes, whats the wormhole orientation of 106?

Thinking I might be able to make a move without gnaws orientation after all, though I guess tapper won't want to make a move until he knows Gnaws orientation

I forgot my cheat sheet at home on my flash drive so I won't be any help today.

I just looked for it in the game 3 map

[twelve]

 Ganoes Paran, on 25 October 2013 - 03:18 PM, said:

 Imperial Historian, on 25 October 2013 - 03:17 PM, said:

Hang on Gnaw discarded the double ancient?

anyone with images of the hexes, whats the wormhole orientation of 106?

Thinking I might be able to make a move without gnaws orientation after all, though I guess tapper won't want to make a move until he knows Gnaws orientation

No he discarded arcturus.

That is the tier I double ancient tile.

[Tattersail_]

 twelve, on 25 October 2013 - 03:37 PM, said:

 Ganoes Paran, on 25 October 2013 - 03:18 PM, said:

 Imperial Historian, on 25 October 2013 - 03:17 PM, said:

Hang on Gnaw discarded the double ancient?

anyone with images of the hexes, whats the wormhole orientation of 106?

Thinking I might be able to make a move without gnaws orientation after all, though I guess tapper won't want to make a move until he knows Gnaws orientation

No he discarded arcturus.

That is the tier I double ancient tile.

Do ancients pin his ships? I know he wants to hide in the center which is the best place for draco to be. If the ship gets pinned then that may be a reason, if they don't pin then maybe he didn't know that and would have prefered to have arcturus? Anyone else wonder why?

[twelve]

 D, on 25 October 2013 - 03:35 PM, said:

 twelve, on 25 October 2013 - 03:34 PM, said:

 Imperial Historian, on 25 October 2013 - 03:17 PM, said:

Hang on Gnaw discarded the double ancient?

anyone with images of the hexes, whats the wormhole orientation of 106?

Thinking I might be able to make a move without gnaws orientation after all, though I guess tapper won't want to make a move until he knows Gnaws orientation

I forgot my cheat sheet at home on my flash drive so I won't be any help today.

I just looked for it in the game 3 map

Ah!!! Didn't think of that. I don't expect to need my cheat sheet today as I'm likely to explore tier III again.

[twelve]

 Ganoes Paran, on 25 October 2013 - 03:41 PM, said:

 twelve, on 25 October 2013 - 03:37 PM, said:

 Ganoes Paran, on 25 October 2013 - 03:18 PM, said:

 Imperial Historian, on 25 October 2013 - 03:17 PM, said:

Hang on Gnaw discarded the double ancient?

anyone with images of the hexes, whats the wormhole orientation of 106?

Thinking I might be able to make a move without gnaws orientation after all, though I guess tapper won't want to make a move until he knows Gnaws orientation

No he discarded arcturus.

That is the tier I double ancient tile.

Do ancients pin his ships? I know he wants to hide in the center which is the best place for draco to be. If the ship gets pinned then that may be a reason, if they don't pin then maybe he didn't know that and would have prefered to have arcturus? Anyone else wonder why?

Ancients don't pin his ships. It's like they are allied I think.

[Tattersail_]

What planets does arcturus have then? Are they worse than the one he picked?

[Imperial Historian]

I think gnaw must be mistakenly applying tier 3 and tier 2 logic to tier 1.

Tier 2 and 3 have defined size decks, when one is discarded it's placed in a discard pile, if all the deck is empty we go back to the discard pile.

In tier 3 this means any discarded hex, will still be available.

In tier 2, this means that any discarded hex is also going to have to be placed if all tier 2 hexes are explored

In tier 1 this is not the case, as there are always 8 hexes in the tier 1 deck, and 6 possible hexes, so discards don't necessarily come into play.

I think Gnaw might be assuming the double ancient will have to be played by someone else if he doesn't, so gives him an advantage, but that doesn't apply in tier 1.