[tiam]

QuickTidal, on 08 August 2013 - 06:09 PM, said:

Ack, the whole thing is just asinine and goes against the camaraderie of sport that the Greek's began so many years ago.

http://www.cracked.c...zations_p2.html

Thread- I had absolutely no idea that Russian policy on gay people was so draconian. It really is baffling and utterly disgusting especially if that 70 percent figure above is accurate.

However I feel that the more cynical posts so far are accurate. The olympics isnt ever going to be moved especially if it hasnt been in the past. Sponsorship rules the world and if Russia has been building stuff for this and all of a sudden the world vilifies it then there will be a shit storm alot worse than imprisoning someone for wearing a rainbow pin, which I think is a great idea but might not happen especially if the atheletes will be clamped down upon by their own organisation.

It wont be moved, a moderately backed social media campaign will not break the major sponsorships that back the olympics. Surely these laws were the same when they were given their host status? I mean its not like theyve introduced barbaric homosexual laws is it?

[Blend]

Jean-Claude Van tiam, on 08 August 2013 - 07:33 PM, said:

QuickTidal, on 08 August 2013 - 06:09 PM, said:

Ack, the whole thing is just asinine and goes against the camaraderie of sport that the Greek's began so many years ago.

http://www.cracked.c...zations_p2.html

Thread- I had absolutely no idea that Russian policy on gay people was so draconian. It really is baffling and utterly disgusting especially if that 70 percent figure above is accurate.

However I feel that the more cynical posts so far are accurate. The olympics isnt ever going to be moved especially if it hasnt been in the past. Sponsorship rules the world and if Russia has been building stuff for this and all of a sudden the world vilifies it then there will be a shit storm alot worse than imprisoning someone for wearing a rainbow pin, which I think is a great idea but might not happen especially if the atheletes will be clamped down upon by their own organisation.

It wont be moved, a moderately backed social media campaign will not break the major sponsorships that back the olympics. Surely these laws were the same when they were given their host status? I mean its not like theyve introduced barbaric homosexual laws is it?

Oh no, they were given host status long before these new laws came into effect. We have known since before the Vancouver Olympics that Sochi would be the next hosts. The anti-gay laws started coming into effect within the last couple of years.

[Blend]

Another thing I wanted to mention - apparently boycotts don't generally hurt the companies that are being boycotted, as has been pointed out above, but as per the below article, due to social media, it does help in creating awareness about the situation in Russia.

The Russian Vodka Boycott Is Working, Whether You Like It or Not

[Morgoth]

Stolichnaya is only Russian in name. It's owned by an American company I believe, and produced in Latvia. Furthermore, I am pretty sure they've participated in, and supported financially, several gay rights groups.

Boycotting seems a little unfounded in other words.

[Blend]

Morgoth, on 09 August 2013 - 06:13 AM, said:

Stolichnaya is only Russian in name. It's owned by an American company I believe, and produced in Latvia. Furthermore, I am pretty sure they've participated in, and supported financially, several gay rights groups.

Boycotting seems a little unfounded in other words.

I agree with you, that wasn't the point I was making at all. The point I was making is that though boycotting doesn't usually work to actually hurt whatever company you're boycotting, in this instance it's helping to inform people about what's going on in Russia

[Illuyankas]

A quote about this I thought was relevant I read recently went (paraphrased) "We should make this the 21st century's apartheid boycott, before it becomes the 21st century's pogroms". Obviously ignoring all modern horrors but you get the idea.

And a boycott by Britain is far more likely to happen than moving the games now, since the IOC is slightly more open about its all for money approach.

[QuickTidal]

I think if one country bravely takes a stand against it and boycotts....then we will see others follow. Hopefully Britain will be the brave one.

Personally I'd endorse Canada skipping the games in boycott...but I wonder at it happening.

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 09 August 2013 - 12:55 PM

[Blend]

QuickTidal, on 09 August 2013 - 12:54 PM, said:

I think if one country bravely takes a stand against it and boycotts....then we will see others follow. Hopefully Britain will be the brave one.

Personally I'd endorse Canada skipping the games in boycott...but I wonder at it happening.

Harper's been oddly quiet about the whole thing, but, I mean, he IS a Conservative, so I imagine he just doesn't want to touch that with a ten foot pole right now. That being said, if the UK boycotts, I don't see Canada not following suit, and then the US will have to as well for fear of looking bad, especially considering Obama's a Democrat. Once those three pull out, I don't see many more of the world actually staying 'in'.

[QuickTidal]

Blend, on 09 August 2013 - 01:33 PM, said:

QuickTidal, on 09 August 2013 - 12:54 PM, said:

I think if one country bravely takes a stand against it and boycotts....then we will see others follow. Hopefully Britain will be the brave one.

Personally I'd endorse Canada skipping the games in boycott...but I wonder at it happening.

Harper's been oddly quiet about the whole thing, but, I mean, he IS a Conservative, so I imagine he just doesn't want to touch that with a ten foot pole right now. That being said, if the UK boycotts, I don't see Canada not following suit, and then the US will have to as well for fear of looking bad, especially considering Obama's a Democrat. Once those three pull out, I don't see many more of the world actually staying 'in'.

Exactly. We'd need a tipping point nation to take the step. The rest would follow suit. It would be more impressive is the USA stepped out first...if only because the headquarters of the most major sponsors are in the USA. They won't go first though.

[Abyss]

QuickTidal, on 09 August 2013 - 02:46 PM, said:

Blend, on 09 August 2013 - 01:33 PM, said:

QuickTidal, on 09 August 2013 - 12:54 PM, said:

I think if one country bravely takes a stand against it and boycotts....then we will see others follow. Hopefully Britain will be the brave one.

Personally I'd endorse Canada skipping the games in boycott...but I wonder at it happening.

Harper's been oddly quiet about the whole thing, but, I mean, he IS a Conservative, so I imagine he just doesn't want to touch that with a ten foot pole right now. That being said, if the UK boycotts, I don't see Canada not following suit, and then the US will have to as well for fear of looking bad, especially considering Obama's a Democrat. Once those three pull out, I don't see many more of the world actually staying 'in'.

Exactly. We'd need a tipping point nation to take the step. The rest would follow suit. It would be more impressive is the USA stepped out first...if only because the headquarters of the most major sponsors are in the USA. They won't go first though.

Canada won't 'punish' its athletes for Russia's stupidity. The same goes for most countries. plus Canada is usually far more impressive in the Winter Games than the Summer so dropping out would really hammer a significant chunk of Cnd's better athletes sponsorship dollars.

And a large ugly old fat white contingent of Harper's dues paying Tory supporters likely agree with Russia, so he's got to step at least a little carefully. Tho it's a bit silly when he has his FA Minister slamming Uganda for its anti-gay laws (and being publically slamed by far rightists for it) and not taking the same stance re Russia.

ETA: facts i had wrong, apprently Cnd gov doing more than i thought.... tho 'behind the scenes', which is somewhat half-assed imnsho

[QuickTidal]

Abyss, on 09 August 2013 - 03:07 PM, said:

Canada won't 'punish' its athletes for Russia's stupidity.

They did it to the Soviets in 1980 Moscow games along with the States. It's happened more often than ppl realize.

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 09 August 2013 - 06:24 PM

[Abyss]

QuickTidal, on 09 August 2013 - 06:24 PM, said:

Abyss, on 09 August 2013 - 03:07 PM, said:

Canada won't 'punish' its athletes for Russia's stupidity.

They did it to the Soviets in 1980 Moscow games along with the States. It's happened more often than ppl realize.

Yep, and were roundly criticized by their own people for it.

I would be fascinated to see the 'yeah you show those anti-gay commie olympic bastards' vs 'our athletes are being punished and its not their faults!' public opinion polls, but at root the latter voices have more dollars behind them. If they didn't then half the civilized world would have boycott China.

[Kanese S's]

Part of the problem was that both in 1980 and 1984, the boycotts, despite both having many countries take part, didn't really do much. The Soviets missed out on some western money in 1980, I guess, and I suppose we missed out on some eastern bloc cash in 1984, but that was it. The games went on, just with lots of countries not taking part.

[Una]

Vancouver can't do it. That's just crazy talk. It doesn't matter how many signatures you have, there's less than a year to go. The athlete's village was turned into condos and social housing and the units have been sold. The media centre is now a conference centre and it's probably booked into next year. The mobile medical units have been donated or sold to various health authorities, and the list goes on. You can cancel. You can boycott. You can show up with your rainbow flags and take your chances of getting arrested. That's probably about it. You can't move it. It's too late for anyone else to pick it up.

The only thing that might hurt is to look for financial angles. Boycotting the sponsors, avoiding giving Russia the tourism boost they want, that sort of thing. But I just had a sobering thought; this is an international event, and internationally, I'm not convinced there will be much support for that. Acceptance of gay people really isn't that widespread, sadly. I mean, sure, perhaps in young, urban, non-religious Westerners, support is high. But around the world, there aren't that many countries that allow same sex marriage, if I may use that as a gauge of acceptance level. Even among Western nations. Even the USA, bastion of freedom and democracy and shining beacon of progress, as they often like to portray themselves, is still wrangling over the issue, and the rhetoric from the Nay side is shockingly hateful. France just legalized it and the protests were big enough to make the news here. And most countries in the world are much less progressive than those two. I fear the majority of people around the world would actually look at Russia's law and say, "Oh! Good. Of course. That's the way it should be."

[Cause]

Apparently Obama has come out and said that boycotting the olympics is not the right move

“I do not think it’s appropriate to boycott the Olympics,” Obama said.
http://www.timeslive...ike-a-bored-kid

He hopes Gay athletes win events to show the Russians the error of their ways. I dont even know how to respond to that. Russians are not anti-gay because they think they are bad at sport!

[QuickTidal]

...and the Russian interior minister has now said that gay athlete's appearing in public with their significant others, and all supporters of LGBT community from other countries and even foreign reporters who INTERVIEW those people will be subject to arrest, detainment, and such.

How Draconian.

Seriously, fuck Russia.

I could not be MORE in favour of moving the games to another country if it were even remotely logistically possible.

[Abyss]

Briar King, on 10 August 2013 - 04:23 PM, said:

If it helps I didn't vote for him either term.

...because, on this point, the other guys would have been SO much better?

QuickTidal, on 12 August 2013 - 07:25 PM, said:

...and the Russian interior minister has now said that gay athlete's appearing in public with their significant others, and all supporters of LGBT community from other countries and even foreign reporters who INTERVIEW those people will be subject to arrest, detainment, and such.

How Draconian.

Seriously, fuck Russia.

I could not be MORE in favour of moving the games to another country if it were even remotely logistically possible.

Seriously, it's like they'll just keep at it to see how far they can go.
...next comes a pronouncement of summary execution.

[QuickTidal]

Abyss, on 12 August 2013 - 07:31 PM, said:

Seriously, it's like they'll just keep at it to see how far they can go.
...next comes a pronouncement of summary execution.

I'm really concerned about how the International community will be affected by what appears to be a plan to kind of ignore it. I can't very well tell my future kids we fought for equality, when everyone just wants to look the other way...because sport.

It's fucked.

I'm going to be doing my personal boycott of the whole shebang, and stay away from major sponsors...but for all the good it will do. At the very least I'll be able to sleep at night, but that is hollow succor to me when the status quo won't change.

[Una]

QuickTidal, on 12 August 2013 - 07:25 PM, said:

...and the Russian interior minister has now said that gay athlete's appearing in public with their significant others, and all supporters of LGBT community from other countries and even foreign reporters who INTERVIEW those people will be subject to arrest, detainment, and such.

How Draconian.

Seriously, fuck Russia.

I could not be MORE in favour of moving the games to another country if it were even remotely logistically possible.

Huh? That's going rather a bit farther than even helps his cause. I can't think of a better way to draw awkward attention to LGBT athletes.

<Reporter> So, it's been a long road to get to this point in your career and no one gets here on his or her own. Who do you have supporting you?
<Athlete> Well, I'd like to thank my mother and my father and my...uh...well, Jill here,but I can't tell you what her relationship is with me because you and I would get arrested. But she encourages me every day and puts up with my crazy training schedule, and I wouldn't be here today without her lov..., I mean, support.

<Audience> Well that came off rather oddly....What was that all about?

[QuickTidal]

Yeah, it's totally excessive and shows the absolute lack of concern and brutish tactics of the Russian gov't.

Asinine really.

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 12 August 2013 - 10:37 PM