[Alkend]

Liosan, on 29 July 2013 - 03:40 PM, said:

Yeah this makes sense as they are also besieging two castles. I wonder if the killers can only kill town memebers of the castle they are beseging?

my tentative vote is on yes but given that this is mafia i am going to assume the worst case scenario
ie they can target everyone
if thats the case then the town mechanic probably has some other purpose
possibly the two different towns have access to different NAs
or maybe as the killers are besieging (and we are stuck in castles) it might even be that the town factions can only target scum besieging them with nas

[Path-Shaper]

This mod is going to bed.

Have fun people.

-Shin

[Desra]

Alkend, on 29 July 2013 - 03:46 PM, said:

Liosan, on 29 July 2013 - 03:40 PM, said:

Yeah this makes sense as they are also besieging two castles. I wonder if the killers can only kill town memebers of the castle they are beseging?

my tentative vote is on yes but given that this is mafia i am going to assume the worst case scenario
ie they can target everyone
if thats the case then the town mechanic probably has some other purpose
possibly the two different towns have access to different NAs
or maybe as the killers are besieging (and we are stuck in castles) it might even be that the town factions can only target scum besieging them with nas

If that last part is the case, then I'd lean back towards a smaller than 5 scum team, otherwise the odds would balance back in favour of scum, I'd say.

[Jalan]

so if the clans are limited to fighting with only the scum general that is arrayed against the castle they occupy, then that restricts the effectiveness of all NAs to location - this seems balancing to me, and also makes for more faction-type play

[Desra]

Jalan, on 29 July 2013 - 04:06 PM, said:

so if the clans are limited to fighting with only the scum general that is arrayed against the castle they occupy, then that restricts the effectiveness of all NAs to location - this seems balancing to me, and also makes for more faction-type play

It really depends on the size of the teams. If it were 5 v 7 v 7, then restricting each town faction's actions to only 2 or 3 of those 5 would give scum an unfair advantage, as it would basically be two 7 v 2 or 3 games, and that's not a balanced game. But if scum was a smaller team, then the divided actions could work that way.

[Jalan]

wouldn't that be just like 2 mini-games at once? the extra challenge would come from figuring out who is at what location so as not to waste the actions/time

We are assuming that lynches don't care where a person is stationed

[Desra]

Jalan, on 29 July 2013 - 05:02 PM, said:

wouldn't that be just like 2 mini-games at once? the extra challenge would come from figuring out who is at what location so as not to waste the actions/time

We are assuming that lynches don't care where a person is stationed

I think that if we had to be in the same castle as whoever we were lynching in order to pull off a lynch, that would just further separate the game into 2 mini games.

Nope, I refuse to believe it.

[Eloth]

Here I am!!

[Eloth]

Caught up.

Desra, on 29 July 2013 - 05:08 PM, said:

Jalan, on 29 July 2013 - 05:02 PM, said:

wouldn't that be just like 2 mini-games at once? the extra challenge would come from figuring out who is at what location so as not to waste the actions/time

We are assuming that lynches don't care where a person is stationed

I think that if we had to be in the same castle as whoever we were lynching in order to pull off a lynch, that would just further separate the game into 2 mini games.

Nope, I refuse to believe it.

Yeah, it's a low TMDI game and that verges on experimental mechanics. That can't be the case.

If there are 5 scum, then I think the "gimmick" would be in the way that scum attack us as 5 scum seems a bit overpowered in a 19 person game to me.

[Barghast]

Jalan, on 29 July 2013 - 01:15 PM, said:

I am not going to even start translating, so you cut that out

yes we lynched folks for this kind of crap in earlier games.

[Barghast]

Liosan, on 29 July 2013 - 03:02 PM, said:

Desra, on 29 July 2013 - 01:53 PM, said:

So, I just took some time to read over all the intro stuff careful. Here's my question: do the (what I am assuming is) 2 town factions win together? I am assuming so, otherwise it would be more a faction game than a town vs scum game, but if that's the case, what's the point of having 2 town factions besides the fact that it's two castles?

Could all town maybe just count as one faction, and there are 2 scum factions?

See D'riss this is a valid speculation.

Desra, I'd assume that they would win together as a win by town helps even the playing field by weakening the scum team. Though for the continued story I'm curious how Shin will play it if town wins yet scum is able to eliminate one town faction entirely.

It'll probably affect the timeline (which is not important, btw), of the future Sengoku games. So if Fuji take one castle, they'll curb-stomp that clan, and it's less likely to appear in future games. Or maybe Fuji will get some kind of an advantage in future games b/c of it. D'rek's Rot3K games were full of continuity tidbits like this.

[Barghast]

Desra, on 29 July 2013 - 03:45 PM, said:

Liosan, on 29 July 2013 - 03:44 PM, said:

Desra, on 29 July 2013 - 03:26 PM, said:

Desra, on 29 July 2013 - 03:23 PM, said:

What would be interesting is if the scum were 2 pairs of paired killers and a 'general'. Scum killer pairs can only kill members of town in one of the castles, so having a slightly bigger than normal scum team would be balanced out by the fact that they can only technically kill off half of town each. This could also mean that we need only kill off the scum general to win the game.

What I don't like about this idea is what happens if we kill off the killers? Does the general just have to hide among town and try to steer lynches away from him? The game would become pretty much impossible for scum to win if that were to happen.

I think the killers are likely to be the generals and not have a seperate General that by killing him town wins. That seems too hard for scum to win if that were the case.

It's true, but it DOES say in the OP that town wins if they kill off the general(s), so it's not completely out of the realm of possibility. But I think you're probably right that there is most likely 2 generals.

or, you know, since every char is an "officer", wh has his own squad, (like in every war-based Sengoku/Rot3K game so far), "general" is just a name for scum killers (as opposed to symps, who may be lower ranks)

[Barghast]

Eloth, on 29 July 2013 - 05:47 PM, said:

Caught up.

Desra, on 29 July 2013 - 05:08 PM, said:

Jalan, on 29 July 2013 - 05:02 PM, said:

wouldn't that be just like 2 mini-games at once? the extra challenge would come from figuring out who is at what location so as not to waste the actions/time

We are assuming that lynches don't care where a person is stationed

I think that if we had to be in the same castle as whoever we were lynching in order to pull off a lynch, that would just further separate the game into 2 mini games.

Nope, I refuse to believe it.

Yeah, it's a low TMDI game and that verges on experimental mechanics. That can't be the case.

If there are 5 scum, then I think the "gimmick" would be in the way that scum attack us as 5 scum seems a bit overpowered in a 19 person game to me.

if there are 3 symps who don't know each other, esp if the killers are on their own (each one got his own castle to besiege), it's pretty good odds. rule of thumb is 3:1 on town v scum, and that's as close as you can get.

[Tellan]

Barghast, on 29 July 2013 - 06:22 PM, said:

Desra, on 29 July 2013 - 03:45 PM, said:

Liosan, on 29 July 2013 - 03:44 PM, said:

Desra, on 29 July 2013 - 03:26 PM, said:

Desra, on 29 July 2013 - 03:23 PM, said:

What would be interesting is if the scum were 2 pairs of paired killers and a 'general'. Scum killer pairs can only kill members of town in one of the castles, so having a slightly bigger than normal scum team would be balanced out by the fact that they can only technically kill off half of town each. This could also mean that we need only kill off the scum general to win the game.

What I don't like about this idea is what happens if we kill off the killers? Does the general just have to hide among town and try to steer lynches away from him? The game would become pretty much impossible for scum to win if that were to happen.

I think the killers are likely to be the generals and not have a seperate General that by killing him town wins. That seems too hard for scum to win if that were the case.

It's true, but it DOES say in the OP that town wins if they kill off the general(s), so it's not completely out of the realm of possibility. But I think you're probably right that there is most likely 2 generals.

or, you know, since every char is an "officer", wh has his own squad, (like in every war-based Sengoku/Rot3K game so far), "general" is just a name for scum killers (as opposed to symps, who may be lower ranks)

Yeah, I just checked sengoku 2 and the generals then were killers, so it would make sense if everything is consistent. Whether or not generals will always be, or even are killers I can't be sure

[Jalan]

Path-Shaper, on 27 July 2013 - 01:19 PM, said:

*snip*

This is a town vs. scum game, although it involves 3 clans. "Town" are players who are in the besieged castles of the Miura and Uesugi. Scum are the Fujiwari, who have besieged those castles.
Victory for scum is if they achieve parity/superiority in numbers. Victory for town is eliminate scum general(s) (killers).


*snip*

I take this underlined to mean general & killer are one and the same and interchangeable, at least in this game

[Hanas]

Jalan, on 29 July 2013 - 06:50 PM, said:

Path-Shaper, on 27 July 2013 - 01:19 PM, said:

*snip*

This is a town vs. scum game, although it involves 3 clans. "Town" are players who are in the besieged castles of the Miura and Uesugi. Scum are the Fujiwari, who have besieged those castles.
Victory for scum is if they achieve parity/superiority in numbers. Victory for town is eliminate scum general(s) (killers).


*snip*

I take this underlined to mean general & killer are one and the same and interchangeable, at least in this game

That is how I read it.

[Desra]

Jalan, on 29 July 2013 - 06:50 PM, said:

Path-Shaper, on 27 July 2013 - 01:19 PM, said:

*snip*

This is a town vs. scum game, although it involves 3 clans. "Town" are players who are in the besieged castles of the Miura and Uesugi. Scum are the Fujiwari, who have besieged those castles.
Victory for scum is if they achieve parity/superiority in numbers. Victory for town is eliminate scum general(s) (killers).


*snip*

I take this underlined to mean general & killer are one and the same and interchangeable, at least in this game

Okay, good point. Don't know how I missed that.

So then what, 2 killers, 3 symps?

[Barghast]

Desra, on 29 July 2013 - 07:13 PM, said:

Jalan, on 29 July 2013 - 06:50 PM, said:

Path-Shaper, on 27 July 2013 - 01:19 PM, said:

*snip*

This is a town vs. scum game, although it involves 3 clans. "Town" are players who are in the besieged castles of the Miura and Uesugi. Scum are the Fujiwari, who have besieged those castles.
Victory for scum is if they achieve parity/superiority in numbers. Victory for town is eliminate scum general(s) (killers).


*snip*

I take this underlined to mean general & killer are one and the same and interchangeable, at least in this game

Okay, good point. Don't know how I missed that.

So then what, 2 killers, 3 symps?

or 2 symps. WCS 3-4. This is one of those times where role spec is absolutely useless to town, unless you want to launch into prolonged "odds or evens rule" WIFOM spec. I mean, you won't know if you hit a symp anyways.

[Desra]

Barghast, on 29 July 2013 - 07:27 PM, said:

Desra, on 29 July 2013 - 07:13 PM, said:

Jalan, on 29 July 2013 - 06:50 PM, said:

Path-Shaper, on 27 July 2013 - 01:19 PM, said:

*snip*

This is a town vs. scum game, although it involves 3 clans. "Town" are players who are in the besieged castles of the Miura and Uesugi. Scum are the Fujiwari, who have besieged those castles.
Victory for scum is if they achieve parity/superiority in numbers. Victory for town is eliminate scum general(s) (killers).


*snip*

I take this underlined to mean general & killer are one and the same and interchangeable, at least in this game

Okay, good point. Don't know how I missed that.

So then what, 2 killers, 3 symps?

or 2 symps. WCS 3-4. This is one of those times where role spec is absolutely useless to town, unless you want to launch into prolonged "odds or evens rule" WIFOM spec. I mean, you won't know if you hit a symp anyways.

So then how do you propose to figure out who scum is? We have to come to some form of consensus on what we think the game mechanics are going to look like so that we have a good starting point.

[Alkend]

Desra, on 29 July 2013 - 07:42 PM, said:

Barghast, on 29 July 2013 - 07:27 PM, said:

Desra, on 29 July 2013 - 07:13 PM, said:

Jalan, on 29 July 2013 - 06:50 PM, said:

Path-Shaper, on 27 July 2013 - 01:19 PM, said:

*snip*

This is a town vs. scum game, although it involves 3 clans. "Town" are players who are in the besieged castles of the Miura and Uesugi. Scum are the Fujiwari, who have besieged those castles.
Victory for scum is if they achieve parity/superiority in numbers. Victory for town is eliminate scum general(s) (killers).


*snip*

I take this underlined to mean general & killer are one and the same and interchangeable, at least in this game

Okay, good point. Don't know how I missed that.

So then what, 2 killers, 3 symps?

or 2 symps. WCS 3-4. This is one of those times where role spec is absolutely useless to town, unless you want to launch into prolonged "odds or evens rule" WIFOM spec. I mean, you won't know if you hit a symp anyways.

So then how do you propose to figure out who scum is? We have to come to some form of consensus on what we think the game mechanics are going to look like so that we have a good starting point.

let's assume 2 to 4 killers probably paired
and im gonna guess maybe one lone killer or symp
wcs would mean one lone killer so i prefer to operate on that
depending on the tmdi here there may be some wacky mechanics relating to the castles which could throw out our theories
but speculating on that is pointless