[Path-Shaper]

Day 5 is over

7 Players still alive: Atrahal, Cast, Hanas, Karatallid, Korlat, Shadow, Tholen

4 votes to lynch, 4 votes to go to night.

4 Votes for Shadow ( Cast, Karatallid, Hanas, Tholen )
3 Votes for Karatallid ( Atrahal, Korlat, Shadow )

Players not voted:

Shadow is dead. He was Grief and RI.

This post has been edited by Path-Shaper: 12 June 2013 - 05:45 AM

[Path-Shaper]

*scene*

Tholen is dead. He was The Dude and R.I.

It is Day 6. 36 hours remaining

5 Players still alive: Atrahal, Cast, Hanas, Karatallid, Korlat

3 votes to lynch, 3 votes to go to night.


Players not voted: Atrahal, Cast, Hanas, Karatallid, Korlat

This post has been edited by Path-Shaper: 12 June 2013 - 05:56 AM

[Atrahal]

Moron. Out of no where? We've spent the whole day filibustering. Calibrating.

Just woke up. If only five minutes earlier.

Shadow got two votes at start of day. That is out of no where.

[Atrahal]

I'm going to vote korlat I think. Why am I still alive? Only if the killer thought we would lynch someone other than shadow. He'd need me to back up shadow as a killer.

I'm going to love my read up today.

[Atrahal]

Just read my first post there, it was meant to say deliberating.

[Atrahal]

Korlat, on 12 June 2013 - 02:23 AM, said:

This might be a bit more interesting in terms of contradiction. Look at the bolded part here below, and then contrast with the following post...

Hanas, on 10 June 2013 - 09:16 PM, said:

Desra, on 10 June 2013 - 05:30 PM, said:

Path-Shaper, on 10 June 2013 - 05:25 PM, said:

It is Day 4. 2 hours and 57 minutes remaining
10 Players still alive: Atrahal, Cast, Desra, Gamelon, Hanas, Hood's Path, Karatallid, Korlat, Shadow, Tholen

6 votes to lynch, 5 votes to go to night.

1 Vote for Gamelon ( Hood's Path )
1 Vote for Hanas ( Desra )
5 Votes for Hood's Path ( Atrahal, Shadow, Cast, Korlat, Tholen )
1 Vote for Shadow ( Karatallid )

Players not voted: Gamelon, Hanas

So the scum killer is probably either Korlat, Tholen or Cast and Hansa is the symp.

I don't think Desra was a symp. But he thought I was. So if I give weight to his suspicions and look at those:
I don't think Korlat is scummy.
Cast has been on everyone's list at one time or another and still around. The quick vote drop on Shadow right after the lynch is shady.
Tholen. Meh. Thinks me hammering HP is scummy but his hammer of the healer is ok.
Of those 3 I have to go with Cast if pushed. She's more likely based upon previous looks at her. (And yeah, that's pretty much saying I think she's suspicious because others think she has been suspicious; not really an accusation that enables a defense.)

Kara has had the hots for Shadow all game; that level of obstinence is simply unscummy to me.
Shadow has been all over the place all game. My weekend read dropped him down my list. But...
Atrahal. Maybe. His spat with Kara on Day 3 about the advisability of discussing possible killer mechanisms had me thinking that either one or the other was scummy. But that was a lot of posts ago.

At the moment, my list is Cast/Tholen, Cast/Shadow, or 1 of those with Atrahal.
I feel like shit so I'm going to go take a nap.
Vote Cast

...in this post below. Love it, exact same reasoning, but different conclusion! So does Kara's obsession with Shadow make him unscummy or a killer, Hanas? How does this potentially fit in with them being on the same team? Well, you could posit that Hanas is attempting to inform Kara that he knows he's a killer, but that is as slight as an anorexic...something or other.

Hanas, on 11 June 2013 - 06:46 PM, said:

Atrahal, on 11 June 2013 - 05:42 PM, said:

Karatallid, on 11 June 2013 - 05:26 PM, said:

vote Shadow

day times out at half 6 in the morning GMT, is this right? So I need to vote in 3 hours.

I'm torn and have no time now. I ask people the merit of voting who I think is scum, who others think is scum or who may be scum. Its tough.

The only reason I'm not voting Hanas is because he'll cf ri.

That leaves one of cast, Kara and tholen as scum in my opinion. If I think that, which I do, then how can I vote shadow.

Kara what do you think of cast and tholen?
Tholen why are you voting for hanas today but argued against it with desra yesterday?
cast why did you follow Kara so quick today? Why not take your time and read up?

Assume, just as a hypothetical, that I'm not lying. Give it 15 minutes.

Path-Shaper, on 10 June 2013 - 05:31 PM, said:

On the gallows, there hangs a string and on the string I swing and swing.
It is Day 4. 2 hours and 53 minutes remaining
10 Players still alive: Atrahal, Cast, Desra, Gamelon, Hanas, Hood's Path, Karatallid, Korlat, Shadow, Tholen
6 votes to lynch, 5 votes to go to night.
1 Vote for Gamelon ( Hood's Path )
6 Votes for Hood's Path ( Atrahal, Shadow, Cast, Korlat, Tholen, Hanas )
1 Vote for Shadow ( Karatallid )
1 Vote for Hanas ( Desra )

Players not voted: Gamelon
Hood's Path is dead. He was HO and RI.
Gamelon was modkilled for inactivity. He was EM and RI.

Once more, I hammered because, in my opinion, there was no way that the vote could swing to another player. Even with Veng pushing it. The only likely outcome would be that no one would get lynched. (Remember, for the next 14 minutes you're assuming I'm RI.)
Kara has had a massive hard on for Shadow all game. That, IMO, is not the action of a symp. Killer, maybe.
I thought Shadow was scum until I read up over the weekend. Now I'm not so certain. He strikes me more as the the throw shit against the wall and see what sticks type. His disappearance today is a bit shady though.

Cast is a good,candidate for scum. The quick jump onto Kara's Shadow vote at start of day is shady. And not been around since.
Korlat is IMO almost certainly town.
Tholen would make an excellent candidate for killer.
Atrahal was one of my suspects early on. But his analyses today, for me, move him into town.
The scum only need to make it to night. They're very confident that I'll be the lynch target tomorrow. (11 more minutes).
I'm thinking it is in descending order Cast/Tholen, Cast/Shadow, or Shadow/Tholen.

(5 more minutes. Re-run scenarios with me as not scum.)
If you cannot divorce yourself from the idea of me being the symp, then lynch me today. Do it tomorrow and scum win.

Hanas trying to warn Kara to play better perhaps? Again, nothing solid.

Hanas, on 11 June 2013 - 04:49 PM, said:

Karatallid, on 11 June 2013 - 04:36 PM, said:

remove vote

Too early in the day to be at L-1 I think.

Very good. Now if you try just a little bit harder you can get your head fully out of your ass.


Member namePosts
Atrahal 191
Shadow 171
Karatallid 76
Desra 75
Hood's Path 74
Korlat. 60
Tiamatha 59
Path-Shaper 58
Cast 48
Tholen 40
Hanas. 37
Galayn Lord 23
Skintick 20
Silchas Ruin 13
Gamelon 9
Lizradus 5

Well, it's more hints than anything concrete. There are a few things there, but perhaps only because I'm looking too hard to find them. There is no rock solid connection between Kara and Hanas, or Kara and Cast for that matter. But neither is it clear-cut in the other direction, unfortunately. It is interesting that it always seems to be Hanas replying to Kara's posts, rather than the other way round. As if trying to get his attention? I feel I may be starting to go round in circles.

Hanas is not on Kara's train. He gives a reason I'll find later. What you said here is very good. A killer wouldn't try and talk to their symp but vice versa could be true.

[Atrahal]

Hanas, on 12 June 2013 - 02:48 AM, said:

Hanas, on 12 June 2013 - 02:40 AM, said:

Korlat, on 12 June 2013 - 02:23 AM, said:

This might be a bit more interesting in terms of contradiction. Look at the bolded part here below, and then contrast with the following post...

Hanas, on 10 June 2013 - 09:16 PM, said:

Desra, on 10 June 2013 - 05:30 PM, said:

Path-Shaper, on 10 June 2013 - 05:25 PM, said:

It is Day 4. 2 hours and 57 minutes remaining
10 Players still alive: Atrahal, Cast, Desra, Gamelon, Hanas, Hood's Path, Karatallid, Korlat, Shadow, Tholen

6 votes to lynch, 5 votes to go to night.

1 Vote for Gamelon ( Hood's Path )
1 Vote for Hanas ( Desra )
5 Votes for Hood's Path ( Atrahal, Shadow, Cast, Korlat, Tholen )
1 Vote for Shadow ( Karatallid )

Players not voted: Gamelon, Hanas

So the scum killer is probably either Korlat, Tholen or Cast and Hansa is the symp.

I don't think Desra was a symp. But he thought I was. So if I give weight to his suspicions and look at those:
I don't think Korlat is scummy.
Cast has been on everyone's list at one time or another and still around. The quick vote drop on Shadow right after the lynch is shady.
Tholen. Meh. Thinks me hammering HP is scummy but his hammer of the healer is ok.
Of those 3 I have to go with Cast if pushed. She's more likely based upon previous looks at her. (And yeah, that's pretty much saying I think she's suspicious because others think she has been suspicious; not really an accusation that enables a defense.)

Kara has had the hots for Shadow all game; that level of obstinence is simply unscummy to me.
Shadow has been all over the place all game. My weekend read dropped him down my list. But...
Atrahal. Maybe. His spat with Kara on Day 3 about the advisability of discussing possible killer mechanisms had me thinking that either one or the other was scummy. But that was a lot of posts ago.

At the moment, my list is Cast/Tholen, Cast/Shadow, or 1 of those with Atrahal.
I feel like shit so I'm going to go take a nap.
Vote Cast

...in this post below. Love it, exact same reasoning, but different conclusion! So does Kara's obsession with Shadow make him unscummy or a killer, Hanas? How does this potentially fit in with them being on the same team? Well, you could posit that Hanas is attempting to inform Kara that he knows he's a killer, but that is as slight as an anorexic...something or other.

Hanas, on 11 June 2013 - 06:46 PM, said:

Atrahal, on 11 June 2013 - 05:42 PM, said:

Karatallid, on 11 June 2013 - 05:26 PM, said:

vote Shadow

day times out at half 6 in the morning GMT, is this right? So I need to vote in 3 hours.

I'm torn and have no time now. I ask people the merit of voting who I think is scum, who others think is scum or who may be scum. Its tough.

The only reason I'm not voting Hanas is because he'll cf ri.

That leaves one of cast, Kara and tholen as scum in my opinion. If I think that, which I do, then how can I vote shadow.

Kara what do you think of cast and tholen?
Tholen why are you voting for hanas today but argued against it with desra yesterday?
cast why did you follow Kara so quick today? Why not take your time and read up?

Assume, just as a hypothetical, that I'm not lying. Give it 15 minutes.

Path-Shaper, on 10 June 2013 - 05:31 PM, said:

On the gallows, there hangs a string and on the string I swing and swing.
It is Day 4. 2 hours and 53 minutes remaining
10 Players still alive: Atrahal, Cast, Desra, Gamelon, Hanas, Hood's Path, Karatallid, Korlat, Shadow, Tholen
6 votes to lynch, 5 votes to go to night.
1 Vote for Gamelon ( Hood's Path )
6 Votes for Hood's Path ( Atrahal, Shadow, Cast, Korlat, Tholen, Hanas )
1 Vote for Shadow ( Karatallid )
1 Vote for Hanas ( Desra )

Players not voted: Gamelon
Hood's Path is dead. He was HO and RI.
Gamelon was modkilled for inactivity. He was EM and RI.

Once more, I hammered because, in my opinion, there was no way that the vote could swing to another player. Even with Veng pushing it. The only likely outcome would be that no one would get lynched. (Remember, for the next 14 minutes you're assuming I'm RI.)
Kara has had a massive hard on for Shadow all game. That, IMO, is not the action of a symp. Killer, maybe.
I thought Shadow was scum until I read up over the weekend. Now I'm not so certain. He strikes me more as the the throw shit against the wall and see what sticks type. His disappearance today is a bit shady though.

Cast is a good,candidate for scum. The quick jump onto Kara's Shadow vote at start of day is shady. And not been around since.
Korlat is IMO almost certainly town.
Tholen would make an excellent candidate for killer.
Atrahal was one of my suspects early on. But his analyses today, for me, move him into town.
The scum only need to make it to night. They're very confident that I'll be the lynch target tomorrow. (11 more minutes).
I'm thinking it is in descending order Cast/Tholen, Cast/Shadow, or Shadow/Tholen.

(5 more minutes. Re-run scenarios with me as not scum.)
If you cannot divorce yourself from the idea of me being the symp, then lynch me today. Do it tomorrow and scum win.

Hanas trying to warn Kara to play better perhaps? Again, nothing solid.

Dammit. Hit add reply instead of preview.
Any contradiction you see in those two comments you bolded is only contradictory if you don't read the part I put in red.
As for me telling the French Canadian that his play needs to be better is rather ludicrous.

So now you just suspect Cast?

[Atrahal]

Shadow, on 12 June 2013 - 03:44 AM, said:

I'm off to sleep shortly.

Vote Kara

I don't like his defensiveness, and think Korlat makes several good points, particularly about the convenient switch of who was symping me. I'm not hugely convinced on the theories as to his symp, but think his own play merits a lynch, and certainly beats voting myself.

Kind of interesting to notice Korlat's commitment on Cast as symp but not killer. Almost makes me want to vote Cast, and if people are around I'd possibly rather vote that way, but don't want a no lynch, so will hang around for a few minutes to see.

Shadow votes for Kara but also suspects Cast.

[Atrahal]

Hanas, on 12 June 2013 - 04:57 AM, said:

Tholen, on 12 June 2013 - 04:47 AM, said:

Gonna wait around till 10:30 PST and see if any mod has checked in... I feel under the gun here with the 3 votes (I think) on each player... Did scum split their vote? Are there 2 scum on 1 train? Hanas is on Shadow, which makes me not want to vote Shadow... But this Karatallid vote kinda came out of nowhere...gonna go shower and think about it. Back in a bit.

Well, if I was scum I'd vote Kara for the lynch. But Korlat straw manned me a lot. So I switched back to Shadow.

Unless you are Kara's symp. Unless you want us to think that. I'm done wifoming your every post.

[Atrahal]

Tholen, on 12 June 2013 - 05:36 AM, said:

vote Shadow

my gut has been right a lot lately. Gonna follow it. Plus I just don't feel Kara has played like scum the past day.

I see his reasoning about Kara's play. His removal of vote for example is a town like thing to do. Yet Shadow explains a reason behind that. Over the last day Cast has played the most un town like. Dropping a careless vote and disappearing is not good town play. Hanas the suspected symp has pointed fingers towards Cast and I would see Cast, if killer, as taking more of an interest in the game. Korlat has acted the most town like in the past day and has gone through a lot of good stuff, pulling up quotes and interactions. My thoughts could go either way with this one, the first is that scum wouldn't do that and show as much dedication that Korlat as there are plenty of scummy people around. Yet by doing it he has made himself town in my eyes.

What if Hanas is town acting fucking scummy and Korlat is scummy acting fucking innocent? I love and hate these situations. Love it when I get it right, hate it when I over think things.

[Atrahal]

Why didn't the Dude read his own post before making the decision?

Tholen, on 11 June 2013 - 06:17 PM, said:

Atrahal, on 11 June 2013 - 05:42 PM, said:

Karatallid, on 11 June 2013 - 05:26 PM, said:

vote Shadow

day times out at half 6 in the morning GMT, is this right? So I need to vote in 3 hours.

I'm torn and have no time now. I ask people the merit of voting who I think is scum, who others think is scum or who may be scum. Its tough.

The only reason I'm not voting Hanas is because he'll cf ri.

That leaves one of cast, Kara and tholen as scum in my opinion. If I think that, which I do, then how can I vote shadow.

Kara what do you think of cast and tholen?
Tholen why are you voting for hanas today but argued against it with desra yesterday?
cast why did you follow Kara so quick today? Why not take your time and read up?

I have read through all the posts but am still processing. In answer to your question I am voting Hanas because I feel that he is the symp and if we are going to vote off someone we expect to CF RI then we need to do it sooner rather than later. I was against it yesterday because I felt we had a solid lead on scum and it was before Hanas added yet another scum like action to his behavior history. I know I did the same think with Skintick, but as I pointed out on thread, it was late my time and day was timing out with no guarantee of a lynch. So I went for it. If Hanas had just done that hammer, it wouldn't be a big deal, but that combined with his other behavior in addition to Tiam's suspicions of him just points a big arrow in his direction no matter how much he uses large red font. If he is the symp he knows he will come up inno and can piss and moan all he wants.

Here's something I've been hesitant to mention because its not WCS but, it IS possible that the symp is dead already which would render much of atrahal's research moot. I know we can't afford to think like that, but I am trying to draw connections based on the things that have been being quoted and other than the Hanas behavior, I am having a hard time drawing lines between 2 players. It will be a nice surprise if that is the case, but obviously we can't think like that. I just want people to realize that if you are basing your thoughts on who is a killer solely on interactions between the REMAINING players, you could be sending yourself off in the wrong direction by making that assumption.

As I have said before, I don't think Shadow is a killer. Could he be...yes. He doesn't see the merit in a Hanas lynch, but it DOES in fact get us another day if he is the symp. If he is the symp then tomorrow is D-day if we don't lynch right today. But like I said before, I think it's foolish to try to lynch today, leaving the suspected symp, saying that we'll vote him tomorrow if we are wrong today. Reduce suspects and give yourself a chance. By voting Hanas today we more effectively do that imo. Not sure why Shadow doesn't see that.

If I had to vote a killer today it would be Cast. Shadow made a good point about him coming up on everyone's list at some point or another. But his lynch has never gained much steam. It's easy, and some would argue smart, to include your master in your suspicions if you are a symp. So we can't rely totally on that logic. Hell, like I said before, the symp could be dead and Cast might be freeballin, hence no support. His game has been middle of the road low posting which is a known scum MO.

My top 2 for today would be Hanas or Cast. I could get behind a shadow lynch as I am almost 100% he isn't the symp, and so is a possible killer, but as I stated, it wouldn't be a confident vote. I will reiterate though, if we do decide to go another direction away from Hanas, I won't be voting him tomorrow. I refuse to vote for a known RI CF on a WCS D-day.

I am highlighting this post though because he sees in Cast possible killer MO. So that is both Grief and The Dude pointing fingers at Cast.

[Atrahal]

Shadow, on 11 June 2013 - 07:14 PM, said:

Tholen, on 11 June 2013 - 07:01 PM, said:

Hanas, on 11 June 2013 - 06:46 PM, said:

Tholen would make an excellent candidate for killer.

*snip snip*
If you cannot divorce yourself from the idea of me being the symp, then lynch me today. Do it tomorrow and scum win.

Regarding part one. Why would I be an excellent candidate for Killer? You gave a reason for everyone else but not me.

Regarding part two. This is why I have been adamant that I won't vote you tomorrow. Because there is always that chance.

I can't see that it really gains us much either way. Like I said before, we get the same number of lynches to find a killer either way, and so we're gambling that he is the symp (high probability but not totally certain), when it can only lose us a lynch.

Tiam guarded Hanas, so Hanas cannot be a killer. That leaves a very small pool of suspects.

Korlat, Cast, Kara.

The symp HAD to look sympish so that the killer would not target him. That is why Hanas' play benefits scum other than town. The merit for town is small ie scum targetting their symp. As opposed to the symp letting the killer know who he is.

I was going to advocate a Hanas lynch and see where the resistance would lie. However, The Dude and Grief are right, we need to go for the killer today over the suspected symp.

[Atrahal]

I voted for him, Korlat made a case about him. This is what he has to say?

Karatallid, on 12 June 2013 - 02:01 AM, said:

Well, I see things haven't changed much since the last time I was around. I'm gonna go take a shower, then check this out, and will decide if I move my vote or not then. I will be asleep when Day times out, so hopefully a lynch will happen!

Karatallid, on 12 June 2013 - 02:36 AM, said:

It certainly looks like it. We've all been doing that during this lovely Day 4 (or is 5?).

Anyway, I'm going to bed now. I'm comfortable with where my vote is, so I will leave it there. G'night all, hoping to see a more interesting thread tomorrow!

Very nonchalant. He has been very defensive at times but this time he just brushes it off.

I want to vote this way and probably will but I am not putting a vote down yet, in case both scum follow and I am wrong.

[Korlat]

I'm here, though not really. On my phone, and won't be able to post properly for another couple of hours. I have a couple of ideas - that lynch on Shadow surely contained at least one scum. I'm not going to rush anything today, but I won't have time to put in any hard graft until this evening.

[Atrahal]

I'm not going to cloud the thread. I'm doing my own private reading, I want to see posts from Kara, Cast and yourself today.

[Karatallid]

Well that was not what I expected. I see no reason why we shouldn't vote Hanas today as likely symp. Gives us an extra day to find the killer. I find it kind of weird that we were so adamant about it at the beginning of the day yesterday, but now you're saying we should ignore him? I am still most suspicious of Atrahal.

[Atrahal]

Karatallid, on 12 June 2013 - 12:41 PM, said:

Well that was not what I expected. I see no reason why we shouldn't vote Hanas today as likely symp. Gives us an extra day to find the killer. I find it kind of weird that we were so adamant about it at the beginning of the day yesterday, but now you're saying we should ignore him? I am still most suspicious of Atrahal.

Retard.

[Atrahal]

Vote Hanas

[Karatallid]

What happened to not going for Hanas today? You pretty much just did a 180 in about 5 posts.

[Atrahal]

remove vote