[Hanas]

Remove Vote

[Korlat]

Tholen, on 04 June 2013 - 06:32 PM, said:

*snip*

There were a ton of people that popped on have like 3-4 posts and bailed.It's a bit early but based on last game, these people need to step up and start posting more. (I know, rich coming from my third post and first of substance...I'll be around much more from here on). We seem to have a posting problem and hopefully it can get fixed. I don't mind low posting, as long as the posts are content filled and constructive. Gaylord stuck out as good in this regard.

*snip*

So here is what Galayn said to make Tholen think this way. Three posts before Tholen's post:

Galayn Lord, on 03 June 2013 - 09:01 PM, said:

checking in, I see Desra is being their lovely self as usual. And we haven't said or done anything useful, except for some meta borderline meta. Lovely, that.

Galayn Lord, on 03 June 2013 - 09:40 PM, said:

Desra, on 03 June 2013 - 09:09 PM, said:

Galayn Lord, on 03 June 2013 - 09:01 PM, said:

checking in, I see Desra is being their lovely self as usual. And we haven't said or done anything useful, except for some meta borderline meta. Lovely, that.

That isn't true.

You have shadow's ascertain that I am suspicious because I pointed out that scum have a chance to kill each other. He claims that pointing that out is not helpful to town.

Desra, on 03 June 2013 - 12:46 PM, said:

So other then a random lynch on the killers we have to look for someone symping two players. On the plus side if they don't know each other there is a chance they might kill each other. That would go down as the most epic fail play if they did that.

Then you have me (and kara) saying that we are doubtful that there are two people in this game who have not read up. So potential signaling between Shadow and Silchas Ruin.

Desra, on 03 June 2013 - 05:17 PM, said:

Hanas, on 03 June 2013 - 05:01 PM, said:

Desra, on 03 June 2013 - 04:38 PM, said:

Shadow, on 03 June 2013 - 04:19 PM, said:

That doesn't explain how it helps town at all at this point, it's just a collection of vaguely related theory. If it doesn't change anything, how does it help town?

The information isn't relevant at this stage, why not actually wait until you see someone who may be symping and then bring it up? Does town really need it pointed out to them that maybe we ought to keep an eye out for symping?

Whereas a master might want to warn their symp, particularly since there is always the chance they have an inexperienced symp.

It may not change the basics of how scum play, but that doesn't mean it wouldn't benefit scum, and it doesn't mean it wouldn't affect how they play this game, being more or less cautious. If a master is worried in this game about symping, because he believes it to be a risk, and wants to warn the symp that town might be particularly alert to it, the only way he can get that message out is on thread.

Edit: Grammar

So you don't think that information is relevant to town from the get go. Mafia is just a vaguely related theory.

How exactly would a master (who doesn't know his symp) warn his symp? That makes no sense what so ever. The benefit to scum is inmaterial when compared to the benefit of all town knowing what to look for. You would have had me keep my suspicions and ideas to myself while I only looked for things. How does that benefit town? If I am day 1 lynched or nked then town would have lost the benefit of my insight. Which would not help town in the least.

So you are so insightful, that we really, really need you around?

Obviously it is always better to have me around unless it isn't. Of course if I am not around then I am modding which means fun and joy for everyone else. This time I most definitely will abuse it.



Looking at the sign up sheet I find it very very very strange that there are two players who are signed up who have not read at least most of the series. This smacks of signaling.

Shadow, on 03 June 2013 - 03:21 PM, said:

The what now? Fewer spoilers in my mafia please

Silchas Ruin, on 03 June 2013 - 03:45 PM, said:

Karatallid, on 03 June 2013 - 01:20 PM, said:

Bonjour mes amis!!!

Fuck you Frenchie!

Karatallid, on 03 June 2013 - 03:41 PM, said:

Honestly though, you haven't read, what, MoI? I'm pretty sure that's where the HoL are first mentioned as possibly existing. It seems a little crazy to me that someone who has been on these boards as long as everyone who is signed up for this game has been, and hasn't read at least up to MoI, let alone the whole series. Regardless, it's not like it's a plot shattering spoiler, at least.

I just started Deadhouse Gates...

vote Kara

In a perfect world, stating the obvious wouldn't be helpful to town. It'd be redundant and a waste of time. Given our predilection to put such a low value of fellow town's common sense, pointing out the obvious becomes an exercise that may potentially be valuable to town.



Shadow and SR, on one side, you and Karat on the other. From where i'm standing, either pair could be a killer/symp combo.

Galayn Lord, on 03 June 2013 - 11:54 PM, said:

Korlat, on 03 June 2013 - 11:02 PM, said:

I have to agree with Desra and say that I also find it odd that two people here seem to be saying that they haven't read all the series as yet. And if that really is true, then for shame. For shame!

I still fail to see relevance.

Yes, of the people playing, there aren't many noobs (though personally, anyone who started playing mafia round the time of GH is still a "noob" to me), but being on the board doesnt always equate with reading all the books.

And as a signalling case, I find it to be weak. Desra's grasping at straws, which kinda makes sense on Day 1, but it still doesn't inspire me with confidence.

One nothing post, one flip-floppy short post coming at the end of a large quote pile, and one genuine (genuine being a loose term applied to Galayn) opinion, though I wager not the first to say this.

Nothing here strikes me as particularly 'content-filled and constructive', which leads me to wonder what Tholen saw in them.

[Korlat]

Why can't things ever be simple?

I went back to see why I didn't think there could be a connection between Cast and Karatallid. There are indeed several posts of Cast's which allude to suspicions of Kara's scumminess, all copied below:

Cast, on 05 June 2013 - 01:50 PM, said:

Karatallid, on 05 June 2013 - 01:01 PM, said:

Wow, a whole like 10 posts since I left yesterday. Oh well, at least we got the lynch. As I suspected, Silchas came back town. Doesn't discount him being the symp, but I guess we shall see how the game goes. I am surprised and confused about the no NK situation. Possible that no provisionals were given? Maybe the killers, or at least one of them, actually is one of the low posters.

This kind of hand wringing and "I knew he was inno" whining always bugs me. The only people that have an inkling of what a cf will be are scum.

Cast, on 05 June 2013 - 02:21 PM, said:

Hood, on 05 June 2013 - 01:58 PM, said:

Cast, on 05 June 2013 - 01:50 PM, said:

Karatallid, on 05 June 2013 - 01:01 PM, said:

Wow, a whole like 10 posts since I left yesterday. Oh well, at least we got the lynch. As I suspected, Silchas came back town. Doesn't discount him being the symp, but I guess we shall see how the game goes. I am surprised and confused about the no NK situation. Possible that no provisionals were given? Maybe the killers, or at least one of them, actually is one of the low posters.

This kind of hand wringing and "I knew he was inno" whining always bugs me. The only people that have an inkling of what a cf will be are scum.

he was doing this before SR was lynched

So again, THE ONLY PEOPLE THAT KNOW WHO IS INNO ARE SCUM. The symp knows with certainty and the killers obviously know themselves and have some guesses on the rest of the team. That Kara keeps on about this looks like he's trying too hard to look like town.

Notably, this one below about the lynch trains doesn't mean much now that we know Tiamatha was the guard. So was this trying to set up a link between Tiam and Karatallid, knowing that Tiam would come up inno on a CF, and therefore something which Cast might be able to use as evidence of Kara's own CF? Well...

Cast, on 06 June 2013 - 11:59 AM, said:

Atrahal, on 06 June 2013 - 11:19 AM, said:

Cast, on 06 June 2013 - 11:07 AM, said:

I signed in too late to do anything, but I don't think there was anything new that would have encouraged me to vote Skintick. I didn't like KL's play here, but she did say she wouldn't have much time this week in the sign up. SUCKS THAT YOU LYNCHED THE FUCKING HEALER!

So now we have two lynch trains to compare.

Path-Shaper, on 04 June 2013 - 10:14 PM, said:

It is Day 1. 30 seconds remaining
15 Players still alive: Atrahal, Cast, Desra, Galayn Lord, Gamelon, Hanas, Hood's Path, Karatallid, Korlat, Shadow, Silchas Ruin, Skintick, Tholen, Tiamatha, Venesara

8 votes to lynch, 8 votes to go to night.

7 Votes for Silchas Ruin ( Atrahal, Tholen, Karatallid, Tiamatha, Skintick, Shadow, Hanas )
1 Vote for Galayn Lord ( Galayn Lord )
1 Vote for Atrahal ( Cast )
1 Vote for Shadow ( Korlat )

Players not voted: Desra, Gamelon, Hood's Path, Silchas Ruin, Venesara
Silchas Ruin is lynched. He was Knucklehead and RI.

Venesara has been modkilled. He was Shinrei and RI.

Path-Shaper, on 06 June 2013 - 09:40 AM, said:

It is Day 2.
13 Players still alive: Atrahal, Cast, Desra, Galayn Lord, Gamelon, Hanas, Hood's Path, Karatallid, Korlat, Shadow, Skintick, Tholen, Tiamatha

7 votes to lynch, 7 votes to go to night.

7 Votes for Skintick ( Atrahal, Desra, Hood's Path, Tiamatha, Kara, GL, Tholen )
1 Vote for Hood's Path ( Shadow )
1 Vote for Atrahal ( Cast )

Players not voted: Gamelon, Hanas, Korlat, Skintick

"Wbat? Killers? Haven't seen 'em. I healed that guy last night. Why do you have that rope?"

Skintick has been lynched, he was King Lear and the Healer.

What stands out to me here is that Atrahal starts both trains and Tiam and Kara vote one after the other in both around the middle of the train, again building the momentum. If Tiam were symp and trying to follow Atrahal, that would explain his position in both trains as well as the Shadow case. I need to look closer at Kara and Tiam's interactions.

It doesn't also stand out that you are not on either train and both days you have voted for me? Are you not town? Then you'd want to lynch, why are you on neither train, the first train came close to not happening. Skintick revealed healer with an hour to go, how does that help us choose a different target?


Skintick played a terrible game as far as I am concerned. After 4-5 votes she should have come out and give us the information, not fucking say she will say something then disappear. Look at the votes for Skintick, I made my reasoning known. I wasn't to know everyone else would follow my vote.



Should I abstain from voting today?

I want to lynch, but I am not about to follow along like a fucktard on a lynch for a case that I don't agree with. That kind of lazy playing doesn't help town at all. I have my suspicions about you, Tiam and Kara, and considering the amazing success rate (<-- note sarcasm font) of the previous lynches, I think it makes sense for us to start following a different path of reasoning.

...well, this post below harms that theory somewhat, simply because Cast states a preference for lynching Kara over Tiamatha (this is still before Tiam's reveal). Not sure a symp would do that.

Cast, on 06 June 2013 - 12:57 PM, said:

Atrahal, on 06 June 2013 - 12:05 PM, said:

Cast, on 06 June 2013 - 11:59 AM, said:

Atrahal, on 06 June 2013 - 11:19 AM, said:

Cast, on 06 June 2013 - 11:07 AM, said:

I signed in too late to do anything, but I don't think there was anything new that would have encouraged me to vote Skintick. I didn't like KL's play here, but she did say she wouldn't have much time this week in the sign up. SUCKS THAT YOU LYNCHED THE FUCKING HEALER!

So now we have two lynch trains to compare.

Path-Shaper, on 04 June 2013 - 10:14 PM, said:

It is Day 1. 30 seconds remaining
15 Players still alive: Atrahal, Cast, Desra, Galayn Lord, Gamelon, Hanas, Hood's Path, Karatallid, Korlat, Shadow, Silchas Ruin, Skintick, Tholen, Tiamatha, Venesara

8 votes to lynch, 8 votes to go to night.

7 Votes for Silchas Ruin ( Atrahal, Tholen, Karatallid, Tiamatha, Skintick, Shadow, Hanas )
1 Vote for Galayn Lord ( Galayn Lord )
1 Vote for Atrahal ( Cast )
1 Vote for Shadow ( Korlat )

Players not voted: Desra, Gamelon, Hood's Path, Silchas Ruin, Venesara
Silchas Ruin is lynched. He was Knucklehead and RI.

Venesara has been modkilled. He was Shinrei and RI.

Path-Shaper, on 06 June 2013 - 09:40 AM, said:

It is Day 2.
13 Players still alive: Atrahal, Cast, Desra, Galayn Lord, Gamelon, Hanas, Hood's Path, Karatallid, Korlat, Shadow, Skintick, Tholen, Tiamatha

7 votes to lynch, 7 votes to go to night.

7 Votes for Skintick ( Atrahal, Desra, Hood's Path, Tiamatha, Kara, GL, Tholen )
1 Vote for Hood's Path ( Shadow )
1 Vote for Atrahal ( Cast )

Players not voted: Gamelon, Hanas, Korlat, Skintick

"Wbat? Killers? Haven't seen 'em. I healed that guy last night. Why do you have that rope?"

Skintick has been lynched, he was King Lear and the Healer.

What stands out to me here is that Atrahal starts both trains and Tiam and Kara vote one after the other in both around the middle of the train, again building the momentum. If Tiam were symp and trying to follow Atrahal, that would explain his position in both trains as well as the Shadow case. I need to look closer at Kara and Tiam's interactions.

It doesn't also stand out that you are not on either train and both days you have voted for me? Are you not town? Then you'd want to lynch, why are you on neither train, the first train came close to not happening. Skintick revealed healer with an hour to go, how does that help us choose a different target?


Skintick played a terrible game as far as I am concerned. After 4-5 votes she should have come out and give us the information, not fucking say she will say something then disappear. Look at the votes for Skintick, I made my reasoning known. I wasn't to know everyone else would follow my vote.



Should I abstain from voting today?

I want to lynch, but I am not about to follow along like a fucktard on a lynch for a case that I don't agree with. That kind of lazy playing doesn't help town at all. I have my suspicions about you, Tiam and Kara, and considering the amazing success rate (<-- note sarcasm font) of the previous lynches, I think it makes sense for us to start following a different path of reasoning.

So day one you vote for me, day two you vote for me, so what is your "different path of reasoning" today then? You have shown us the way forward yes?

Town needs to stop picking pointless easy votes, and start focussing on interactions. I still want to lynch you, but think Kara or Tiam may be good lynches. I lean more towards Kara as I think Tiam is symp.

And then this post, where Kara is one of the three Cast wants to vote for instead of Galayn. I think it is this post more than anything which made me think Kara could not be connected to Cast.

Cast, on 06 June 2013 - 04:21 PM, said:

I find GL a very odd choice for day 1 since he wasn't under suspicion. We must all be über super genius mafia players if we are able to identify the killers on the first day TWO GAMES IN A ROW!
And Tiam says we can lynch him if he's wrong like a martyr willing to fall on the sword! Only then it might be too late. I'm not at all surprised that Kara and Atrahal fell right in behind Tiam either!
I'll be happy to vote one of those 3.

So, so far, not much to support that theory. But, just to complicate things, Cast then comes out with this at the beginning of this day:

Cast, on 10 June 2013 - 05:56 PM, said:

I think Shadow is most likely scum and Atrahal his symp, based on Atrahal's signaling and Shadow's scrambling during the GL lynch.

vote Shadow

Yeah, you know what this is? This is Karatallid's case on Atrahal and Shadow. Cast is now supporting a case made by Karatallid!


Edit: Notes in wrong place.

This post has been edited by Korlat: 12 June 2013 - 01:00 AM

[Shadow]

Tholen, on 11 June 2013 - 07:40 PM, said:

Shadow, on 11 June 2013 - 07:25 PM, said:

I guess the obvious response would be "but what if you're scum and don't hammer yourself "

But if I'm a killer I'd lose anyway, since I'd be a certain lynch. If I'm the symp it would fuck with the town (and cost them to waste a lynch), but then if I'm the symp you shouldn't be trying to lynch me anyhow...

Edit: Forgot to close my speech marks

I can't see any way that you are the symp. And yeah... I don't think anyone on thread who thinks you are the killer really believes you'll be around to hammer yourself.

And yet here I am.

Catching up.

[Shadow]

Atrahal looks to me like he's throwing a ton around, very haphazard.

Thinks I'm scum, doesn't, thinks I should be lynched even though I'm not scum...

Really erratic play.

[Shadow]

Korlat, on 11 June 2013 - 09:35 PM, said:

Now, Kara also came under some heat for his vote on Silchas Ruin above. Specifically, why he was switching to Silchas when he suspected Shadow. Kara does point out that he had made a connection between the two before voting, so it wasn't out of the blue (the link came about two hours earlier, unless I missed an earlier one).

Except that the connection he made was that Silchas was my symp, so it really doesn't justify the switch.

[Shadow]

Korlat, on 11 June 2013 - 09:35 PM, said:

Below is the quick start of day vote on Shadow. At the time I thought Cast's was more dodgy, but even so, what's the rush? Why not analyse the lynch train, for instance, and see if there's anything there that could potentially change your mind. Even so, I would have to admit it's pretty risky for a sole killer to start a train so soon, unless they were certain they could get the quick lynch.

Don't think it's particularly risky, I was a pretty safe target, in terms of having pressure.

[Shadow]

Korlat, on 11 June 2013 - 09:35 PM, said:

I'd also point out point number 4 below - the two he names as wanting to lynch out of low posters were our healer and our guard. Not something scum would have known, but...funny.

Perhaps more relevant is that he doesn't mention GL, even though his reasoning for why he picked who he did doesn't go very in depth.

[Shadow]

Korlat, on 11 June 2013 - 09:35 PM, said:

And moreover, what happened to Atrahal being the symp? The certainty around that appears to have evaporated for Karatallid.

I feel this is actually a really good point. It suggests Kara's stated reasons for making his vote may not be very consistent with his actual reasons for doing so.

[Shadow]

Karatallid, on 11 June 2013 - 03:52 PM, said:

The thing that's got me is that if there are two scum left, then why don't they just hammer Shadow? Either Cast or Shadow must be one of the scum, if you ask me.

This is a poor piece of reasoning. There could be numerous reasons, not least, we've already seen people getting heat for hammering early.

This reasoning, poor as it is, also does apply to Kara.

[Shadow]

Korlat, on 11 June 2013 - 09:35 PM, said:

making pre-emptive defenses (though Shadow has done that too recently )

Genuinely curious as to where you think I did this, other than maybe when asking not to be lynched before I returned.

[Korlat]

Shadow, on 12 June 2013 - 01:28 AM, said:

Korlat, on 11 June 2013 - 09:35 PM, said:

making pre-emptive defenses (though Shadow has done that too recently )

Genuinely curious as to where you think I did this, other than maybe when asking not to be lynched before I returned.

I was thinking of this, though the should indicate I wasn't being entirely serious:

Shadow, on 11 June 2013 - 07:25 PM, said:

I guess the obvious response would be "but what if you're scum and don't hammer yourself "

But if I'm a killer I'd lose anyway, since I'd be a certain lynch. If I'm the symp it would fuck with the town (and cost them to waste a lynch), but then if I'm the symp you shouldn't be trying to lynch me anyhow...

Edit: Forgot to close my speech marks

I'm just looking through Hanas' posts now to see if there's any connection to Kara there.

[Shadow]

Korlat, on 11 June 2013 - 09:35 PM, said:

Am I wrong about Cast? Or about Karatallid? Or can the former still be symping the latter?

Evidence I'd say is against Cast symping Kara:

Cast, on 05 June 2013 - 01:50 PM, said:

Karatallid, on 05 June 2013 - 01:01 PM, said:

Wow, a whole like 10 posts since I left yesterday. Oh well, at least we got the lynch. As I suspected, Silchas came back town. Doesn't discount him being the symp, but I guess we shall see how the game goes. I am surprised and confused about the no NK situation. Possible that no provisionals were given? Maybe the killers, or at least one of them, actually is one of the low posters.

This kind of hand wringing and "I knew he was inno" whining always bugs me. The only people that have an inkling of what a cf will be are scum.

Cast, on 06 June 2013 - 12:57 PM, said:

Atrahal, on 06 June 2013 - 12:05 PM, said:

So day one you vote for me, day two you vote for me, so what is your "different path of reasoning" today then? You have shown us the way forward yes?

Town needs to stop picking pointless easy votes, and start focussing on interactions. I still want to lynch you, but think Kara or Tiam may be good lynches. I lean more towards Kara as I think Tiam is symp.

Evidence I'd call for Cast as Kara's symp:

Most strongly, the vote.

Cast, on 04 June 2013 - 03:59 PM, said:

Shadow, on 04 June 2013 - 03:09 PM, said:

I find that somewhat rich coming from you. Seven posts perhaps, but what content?

What do you think about say, Karatallid?

Particularly regarding this accusation by Atrahal:

Atrahal, on 03 June 2013 - 02:23 PM, said:

Parroting the OP in order to look useful and insightful.

He could also be accused of trying too hard to appear useful while providing no content with his unnecessary D-day calculations.

Also these posts jumped out at me while looking at Kara, just as being a bit unnecessary, and odd.

Hood, on 03 June 2013 - 02:26 PM, said:

I disagree, he was answering questions, we almost had a conversation going

Until you sent a shadow fax

Hood, on 03 June 2013 - 02:38 PM, said:

but seriously Kara, don't be discouraged by the oppositional methods of a few. It can be an effective but annoying strategy for sparking the flow of information and ideas, a great mutual exchange of thought

I prefer to ask questions, and trust in the integrity of my fellow players to provide the insight that makes the experience so enriching for everyone


oops, exhausted my BS quota, now what am I gonna do?

Edit: This was aimed at Cast.

Not sure if I see anything there tbh.

Or you could simply be wrong about Cast. I wouldn't get hugely hung up about not finding connections with your favourite symp candidate (though it can be worth noting, as I felt earlier when there are no decent ideas about symp connection). There are a lot of people who could be symps, as you mention. A lot of the people that are being connected around the place, don't really connect that much with GL - but it's possible the symp didn't, or just isn't playing that way.

Personally, I can see a lot scummy about Kara, in his own play, and feel Korlat makes several good points.

[Hanas]

Karatallid said:

1370968593[/url]' post='1062121']
remove vote

Too early in the day to be at L-1 I think.

Korlat. How do explain this?
Hell, for that matter, how do you explain that Shadow?

[Shadow]

Hanas, on 12 June 2013 - 01:44 AM, said:

Karatallid, on 11 June 2013 - 04:36 PM, said:

remove vote

Too early in the day to be at L-1 I think.

Korlat. How do explain this?
Hell, for that matter, how do you explain that Shadow?

Very fast lynches are more likely to draw attention, especially considering there'd already been heat for the speed of the first two votes.

[Shadow]

Particularly since someone he'd been calling a symp (and my symp for that matter), had just voted to put me on L-1, the lynch going through would raise a ton of questions.

[Karatallid]

Well, I see things haven't changed much since the last time I was around. I'm gonna go take a shower, then check this out, and will decide if I move my vote or not then. I will be asleep when Day times out, so hopefully a lynch will happen!

[Hanas]

Any chance of a count and time?

[Korlat]

Ok, interaction between Hanas and Karatallid.


Hanas 'backing up' Karatallid here. I say 'backing up' because it's not the main thrust of Hanas' post. One could ask the question why not let Karatallid find it himself (as they do later), why get involved in it at all? Still, this kind of response/interjection to someone else's conversation does happen frequently enough in mafia to not be considered unusual.

Hanas, on 06 June 2013 - 02:46 PM, said:

Karatallid, on 06 June 2013 - 02:34 PM, said:

Atrahal, on 06 June 2013 - 02:05 PM, said:

Karatallid, on 06 June 2013 - 01:54 PM, said:

Atrahal, on 06 June 2013 - 01:43 PM, said:

Karatallid, on 06 June 2013 - 01:40 PM, said:

Wish I hadn't been in bed when Day timed out, or that KL had revealed earlier than she did. I'm mighty confused about what's happening with the NKs. I mean, do we have a guard that's just that good, or do the killers really suck that bad?

I find this post scummy. I'm happy we haven't had any kills. We'd need to have a double gaurd for him to block both killers now that the healer is dead. I think they are abstaining. It could be multiple reasons.

I just figured that the kill shifted from one killer to the other each night. Either way, I still find it weird that the killers haven't managed to pull off a NK. Why would they abstain? What's the point in that?

This is the first time this has been mentioned this game. We have seen no kills indicating this. How can we know that you aren't signalling another killer with knowledge that we do not have. Only the killers will know their roles and how it would work. For this I am voting for you.


Remove Vote


Vote Karatallid

Well that's a load of shit... Not sure if it was during Day 1 or at the beginning of Day 2 when we were discussing why there were no NKs, but the idea that the kill alternates between the two killers has certainly been mentioned before. Give me a few minutes and I'll dig up the quotes.

It was shadow. About 10 minutes into day 2.
As for my night vote. Now that I have your attention:
All we've done so far is have lots of finger pointing and two town lynches. And two nights with no kills.
2 killers independent of each other. Maybe they can only kill on alternate nights. Maybe they have to kill the other before they can start killing us.
I don't know. But until I see evidence of a killer I'm not going to vote for anyone. We're simply thinning our own ranks for them.

Hanas, on 07 June 2013 - 02:53 PM, said:

Karatallid, on 07 June 2013 - 01:36 PM, said:

Atrahal, on 07 June 2013 - 01:26 PM, said:

Karatallid, on 07 June 2013 - 01:22 PM, said:

Hmmm, been a fairly quiet day so far. So who we looking at today?

A bit of interaction between the two here. Again, nothing out of the ordinary by itself.

A few seem to think Cast is supicious and possibly GL's symp. I am thinking Shadow's play is very defensive and could lead to scum. Have a read, we got a scum CF, form your own opinion.

Although the scum CF is great, that doesn't help us pick out the second scum. We're basically shooting blindly again. Gonna have to look for anyone symping GL to try to tie that person to a 2nd potential scum, methinks.

We're not as blind as we were. I think that we should go to freeze. That way those of us who want can go back to the front and do a re-read.
I could maybe go for Shadow today but I can't decide whether that's because he decided I could be the symp or because he's been all over the place.
Or maybe Cast. But for now I buy (barely) his explanation that he thought Tiam was a fake reveal.

I'm going to use that dreaded word 'signalling' again as a possibility. Hanas pointing out the similarities between himself and Karatallid.

Hanas, on 08 June 2013 - 09:14 PM, said:

Karatallid, on 04 June 2013 - 08:07 PM, said:

Well, Silchas is pretty close to a low poster. He's got 9 posts, only 5 of which actually have content. The rest are just condemning me for being French Canadian.

Yes, I know this is day 1 shit. But I have an odd sense of humor and this amuses me.
You think it's bad that you're being targeted because you're French Canadian? I've got people targeting me because Liz is German.

But here Hanas appears suspicious of Karatallid. In the context of the conversation (which is about Hanas being lynched) it appears to fit even less well the idea of Hanas being Kara's symp.

Hanas, on 10 June 2013 - 06:56 PM, said:

Tholen, on 10 June 2013 - 06:43 PM, said:

Karatallid, on 10 June 2013 - 06:33 PM, said:

I think it makes more sense to go after someone we suspect as being a killer today, and, if they turn up inno, then go after Hanas tomorrow in hopes that it'll give us a bit more time.

It's so hard for me to see myself voting someone who is going to come up RI on a WCS D-day. What if we are wrong and Hanas isn't the symp (unlikely, but possible)... then it's game over.

It is much better to lynch me today if you think I'm the symp.
Kara's quick vote on Shadow and now telling the town to wait until d-day to lynch the symp? That raises some flags, or ought to.

A bit more to that conversation here. Not sure what to make of this really. Hanas lamenting his fortune. Though I get the sense both would prefer to see Shadow lynched

Hanas, on 10 June 2013 - 07:46 PM, said:

Karatallid, on 10 June 2013 - 07:20 PM, said:

Hanas, on 10 June 2013 - 06:56 PM, said:

Tholen, on 10 June 2013 - 06:43 PM, said:

Karatallid, on 10 June 2013 - 06:33 PM, said:

I think it makes more sense to go after someone we suspect as being a killer today, and, if they turn up inno, then go after Hanas tomorrow in hopes that it'll give us a bit more time.

It's so hard for me to see myself voting someone who is going to come up RI on a WCS D-day. What if we are wrong and Hanas isn't the symp (unlikely, but possible)... then it's game over.

It is much better to lynch me today if you think I'm the symp.
Kara's quick vote on Shadow and now telling the town to wait until d-day to lynch the symp? That raises some flags, or ought to.

This doesn't make any sense to me. I'd rather try for the killer until we absolutely have to lynch the symp. There is no need to lynch the symp to win, so if we are 95% certain who the symp is, then there's no point in voting them out until we absolutely have to for a WCS situation. Better to try for the killer and whittle down the pool of possible candidates for killer.

I was gonna ask you why you are trying so hard to deflect from Shadow, but I guess since you're the symp, it makes sense for you to do so!

But I'm the symp remember? And everyone 'knows' it. My deflection from Shadow is therefore a fake deflection. I'm really trying to keep your attention focused away from oh wait, look at the time.

[Korlat]

This might be a bit more interesting in terms of contradiction. Look at the bolded part here below, and then contrast with the following post...

Hanas, on 10 June 2013 - 09:16 PM, said:

Desra, on 10 June 2013 - 05:30 PM, said:

Path-Shaper, on 10 June 2013 - 05:25 PM, said:

It is Day 4. 2 hours and 57 minutes remaining
10 Players still alive: Atrahal, Cast, Desra, Gamelon, Hanas, Hood's Path, Karatallid, Korlat, Shadow, Tholen

6 votes to lynch, 5 votes to go to night.

1 Vote for Gamelon ( Hood's Path )
1 Vote for Hanas ( Desra )
5 Votes for Hood's Path ( Atrahal, Shadow, Cast, Korlat, Tholen )
1 Vote for Shadow ( Karatallid )

Players not voted: Gamelon, Hanas

So the scum killer is probably either Korlat, Tholen or Cast and Hansa is the symp.

I don't think Desra was a symp. But he thought I was. So if I give weight to his suspicions and look at those:
I don't think Korlat is scummy.
Cast has been on everyone's list at one time or another and still around. The quick vote drop on Shadow right after the lynch is shady.
Tholen. Meh. Thinks me hammering HP is scummy but his hammer of the healer is ok.
Of those 3 I have to go with Cast if pushed. She's more likely based upon previous looks at her. (And yeah, that's pretty much saying I think she's suspicious because others think she has been suspicious; not really an accusation that enables a defense.)

Kara has had the hots for Shadow all game; that level of obstinence is simply unscummy to me.
Shadow has been all over the place all game. My weekend read dropped him down my list. But...
Atrahal. Maybe. His spat with Kara on Day 3 about the advisability of discussing possible killer mechanisms had me thinking that either one or the other was scummy. But that was a lot of posts ago.

At the moment, my list is Cast/Tholen, Cast/Shadow, or 1 of those with Atrahal.
I feel like shit so I'm going to go take a nap.
Vote Cast

...in this post below. Love it, exact same reasoning, but different conclusion! So does Kara's obsession with Shadow make him unscummy or a killer, Hanas? How does this potentially fit in with them being on the same team? Well, you could posit that Hanas is attempting to inform Kara that he knows he's a killer, but that is as slight as an anorexic...something or other.

Hanas, on 11 June 2013 - 06:46 PM, said:

Atrahal, on 11 June 2013 - 05:42 PM, said:

Karatallid, on 11 June 2013 - 05:26 PM, said:

vote Shadow

day times out at half 6 in the morning GMT, is this right? So I need to vote in 3 hours.

I'm torn and have no time now. I ask people the merit of voting who I think is scum, who others think is scum or who may be scum. Its tough.

The only reason I'm not voting Hanas is because he'll cf ri.

That leaves one of cast, Kara and tholen as scum in my opinion. If I think that, which I do, then how can I vote shadow.

Kara what do you think of cast and tholen?
Tholen why are you voting for hanas today but argued against it with desra yesterday?
cast why did you follow Kara so quick today? Why not take your time and read up?

Assume, just as a hypothetical, that I'm not lying. Give it 15 minutes.

Path-Shaper, on 10 June 2013 - 05:31 PM, said:

On the gallows, there hangs a string and on the string I swing and swing.
It is Day 4. 2 hours and 53 minutes remaining
10 Players still alive: Atrahal, Cast, Desra, Gamelon, Hanas, Hood's Path, Karatallid, Korlat, Shadow, Tholen
6 votes to lynch, 5 votes to go to night.
1 Vote for Gamelon ( Hood's Path )
6 Votes for Hood's Path ( Atrahal, Shadow, Cast, Korlat, Tholen, Hanas )
1 Vote for Shadow ( Karatallid )
1 Vote for Hanas ( Desra )

Players not voted: Gamelon
Hood's Path is dead. He was HO and RI.
Gamelon was modkilled for inactivity. He was EM and RI.

Once more, I hammered because, in my opinion, there was no way that the vote could swing to another player. Even with Veng pushing it. The only likely outcome would be that no one would get lynched. (Remember, for the next 14 minutes you're assuming I'm RI.)
Kara has had a massive hard on for Shadow all game. That, IMO, is not the action of a symp. Killer, maybe.
I thought Shadow was scum until I read up over the weekend. Now I'm not so certain. He strikes me more as the the throw shit against the wall and see what sticks type. His disappearance today is a bit shady though.

Cast is a good,candidate for scum. The quick jump onto Kara's Shadow vote at start of day is shady. And not been around since.
Korlat is IMO almost certainly town.
Tholen would make an excellent candidate for killer.
Atrahal was one of my suspects early on. But his analyses today, for me, move him into town.
The scum only need to make it to night. They're very confident that I'll be the lynch target tomorrow. (11 more minutes).
I'm thinking it is in descending order Cast/Tholen, Cast/Shadow, or Shadow/Tholen.

(5 more minutes. Re-run scenarios with me as not scum.)
If you cannot divorce yourself from the idea of me being the symp, then lynch me today. Do it tomorrow and scum win.

Hanas trying to warn Kara to play better perhaps? Again, nothing solid.

Hanas, on 11 June 2013 - 04:49 PM, said:

Karatallid, on 11 June 2013 - 04:36 PM, said:

remove vote

Too early in the day to be at L-1 I think.

Very good. Now if you try just a little bit harder you can get your head fully out of your ass.


Member namePosts
Atrahal 191
Shadow 171
Karatallid 76
Desra 75
Hood's Path 74
Korlat. 60
Tiamatha 59
Path-Shaper 58
Cast 48
Tholen 40
Hanas. 37
Galayn Lord 23
Skintick 20
Silchas Ruin 13
Gamelon 9
Lizradus 5

Well, it's more hints than anything concrete. There are a few things there, but perhaps only because I'm looking too hard to find them. There is no rock solid connection between Kara and Hanas, or Kara and Cast for that matter. But neither is it clear-cut in the other direction, unfortunately. It is interesting that it always seems to be Hanas replying to Kara's posts, rather than the other way round. As if trying to get his attention? I feel I may be starting to go round in circles.