[Puck]

First off, I hate creating threads, but I looked around the FoD subforum and couldn't find a thread that fit, so here I am.. I figure we could use this thread for collecting and discussing things from the main series that hint at things in the Kharkanas Trilogy and that are not related to certain characters, as there's already a thread about those.. Hell, this here will probably die pretty fast but I found something I feel like sharing..

Lookie, it's from the beginning of Chapter 12 of tCG:

Quote

Word came, and in the ashes I finally straightened and looked upon those few of my children left standing. The Throne of Shadows was no more and out from the twilight flew dragons, filling the air with cries of rage and frustration.
I knew then that he had done it. He had cheated them all, but at what cost? I looked at the heaps of corpses, a monstrous high water mark upon this cursed strand. Blood ran in streams down the slope to where crimson-streaked light cascaded, where all the wounds still gaped. Another wave was coming. We could not hold.
Down from the forest, at that moment of deepest despair, came a trio of figures. I faced them, and from my ravaged soul there was born hope's glimmer...
Excerpt
Book Eleven
Throne, Sceptre and Crown
Rise Harat
(Coral Trove)

Don't know if it's worth anything, but look at who is supposed to have written it.. Rise Harat, Rise Herat, not much differece there.. And this is clearly a scene from the battle at Lightfall we are probably going to see in the trilogy.. Now, I'm curious as to who the one who 'cheated them all' would be? First throught was Rake.. And maybe this is just a bunch of fluff, but coming upon this now after having read tCG several times before made me quite excited.

I'm also curious about the 'those few of my children left standing' part.. Is it all really from Rise Herat's PoV? And were they fighting in favor or against the Throne of Shadow? Ah, so many possibilities..

[Puck]

Another one, from the beginning of Chapter 5 of tCG..

Quote

She was dying but we carried her down to the shore. There was light stretched like skin over her pain, but it was thin and fast fraying. None of us dared note in any whisper of irony, how she who was named Awakening Dawn was now fading in this morning's wretched rise.
Her weak gestures had brought her down here, where the silver waves fell like rain and the froth at the curling foot was flecked crimson. Bodies bloated and pale fanned limbs in the shallows, and we wondered at the fitness of her last command.
Is it suit to face your slayer? Soon enough I will answer that for myself. We can hear the legions mustering again behind the flowing wall, and the others are drawing back to ready their rough line. So few left. Perhaps this is what she came to see, before the killing light dried her eyes.

Shake fragment, Kharkanas, Author unknown

She? I can't think of anyone except Synthara, but somehow I don't want to see her namen anything as pretty as Awakening Dawn..

[worry]

There's bound to be more proto-Liosan women of importance in coming books, or depending on the stretch of years, a genuine TL woman. Besides the two Shake positions, there seems to be a TA one (Sister of Cold Nights) and a TL one (Awakening Dawn), and no apparent Edur position there, but I still think the story has to be spread out over years and years.

[Puck]

Yeah, I'm just guessing while rereading tCG all over again, and posting what I come upon.

Another one, from the PoV of Aparal Forge in Chapter 12:

Quote

The once glorious gate had been shattered long ago. It had commemorated a marriage that had spilled more blood than could be imagined. Shattered three civilizations. Destroyed an entire realm. Father Light, could you but have known, would you have turned away? Would you have sacrificed your happiness for the sake of your people? And hers?

The reason it stood out to me was because it says three civilizations but also an entire realm, which goes better with what we see in FoD than what we had previously thought of the different Tiste people living in different realms, and sounds more like one realm that's divided by sorcery/whatever means into smaller parts accessible through gates.

[Cyclorrhapha]

Puck, on 09 April 2013 - 07:30 PM, said:

First off, I hate creating threads, but I looked around the FoD subforum and couldn't find a thread that fit, so here I am.. I figure we could use this thread for collecting and discussing things from the main series that hint at things in the Kharkanas Trilogy and that are not related to certain characters, as there's already a thread about those.. Hell, this here will probably die pretty fast but I found something I feel like sharing..

Lookie, it's from the beginning of Chapter 12 of tCG:

Quote

Word came, and in the ashes I finally straightened and looked upon those few of my children left standing. The Throne of Shadows was no more and out from the twilight flew dragons, filling the air with cries of rage and frustration.
I knew then that he had done it. He had cheated them all, but at what cost? I looked at the heaps of corpses, a monstrous high water mark upon this cursed strand. Blood ran in streams down the slope to where crimson-streaked light cascaded, where all the wounds still gaped. Another wave was coming. We could not hold.
Down from the forest, at that moment of deepest despair, came a trio of figures. I faced them, and from my ravaged soul there was born hope's glimmer...
Excerpt
Book Eleven
Throne, Sceptre and Crown
Rise Harat
(Coral Trove)

Don't know if it's worth anything, but look at who is supposed to have written it.. Rise Harat, Rise Herat, not much differece there.. And this is clearly a scene from the battle at Lightfall we are probably going to see in the trilogy.. Now, I'm curious as to who the one who 'cheated them all' would be? First throught was Rake.. And maybe this is just a bunch of fluff, but coming upon this now after having read tCG several times before made me quite excited.

I'm also curious about the 'those few of my children left standing' part.. Is it all really from Rise Herat's PoV? And were they fighting in favor or against the Throne of Shadow? Ah, so many possibilities..

My first guess of the trio to which he's referring to would be Rake, Silchas and Andarist. That being said I sort of doubt Anomander is the one who "cheated them all", thinking that spot's reserved for either Hunn Raal or possibly Draconus when he forges Dragnipur. Waiting for the next book to shed some light on this. Pun intended. Also props for the thread idea, can't really contribute though since I've not done a full reread of the main series yet and the last time I read tCG was back in 2011.

[ShadowOwl]

Perhaps the one who 'cheated them all' could be Edgewalker (whoever that turns out to be). He certainly paid a price for sitting in the throne of shadow. Maybe that's why he did it, to ensure the dragons did not get it. If it was him, it frees up Rake to be one of the trio. Great quote finds Puck!

[nacht]

Puck, on 09 April 2013 - 08:56 PM, said:

Another one, from the beginning of Chapter 5 of tCG..

Quote

She was dying but we carried her down to the shore. There was light stretched like skin over her pain, but it was thin and fast fraying. None of us dared note in any whisper of irony, how she who was named Awakening Dawn was now fading in this morning's wretched rise.
Her weak gestures had brought her down here, where the silver waves fell like rain and the froth at the curling foot was flecked crimson. Bodies bloated and pale fanned limbs in the shallows, and we wondered at the fitness of her last command.
Is it suit to face your slayer? Soon enough I will answer that for myself. We can hear the legions mustering again behind the flowing wall, and the others are drawing back to ready their rough line. So few left. Perhaps this is what she came to see, before the killing light dried her eyes.

Shake fragment, Kharkanas, Author unknown

She? I can't think of anyone except Synthara, but somehow I don't want to see her namen anything as pretty as Awakening Dawn..

@Puck: Cool finds
I think this particular view is a Shake perspective and the Awakening Dawn is a Shake title (similar to Twilight and the Night Watch) and the legion is Ursander's legion.

[Nevyn]

Yeah, I think the cheated them all thing will end up being Draconus. There are references (Baruk reading "Dillat"'s book) to Draconus being a dragon slayer, and of course Dragnipur makes the gate of darkness unaccessible. Not certain, but my best guess.

[nacht]

nacht, on 10 April 2013 - 07:28 PM, said:

Puck, on 09 April 2013 - 08:56 PM, said:

Another one, from the beginning of Chapter 5 of tCG..

Quote

She was dying but we carried her down to the shore. There was light stretched like skin over her pain, but it was thin and fast fraying. None of us dared note in any whisper of irony, how she who was named Awakening Dawn was now fading in this morning's wretched rise.
Her weak gestures had brought her down here, where the silver waves fell like rain and the froth at the curling foot was flecked crimson. Bodies bloated and pale fanned limbs in the shallows, and we wondered at the fitness of her last command.
Is it suit to face your slayer? Soon enough I will answer that for myself. We can hear the legions mustering again behind the flowing wall, and the others are drawing back to ready their rough line. So few left. Perhaps this is what she came to see, before the killing light dried her eyes.

Shake fragment, Kharkanas, Author unknown

She? I can't think of anyone except Synthara, but somehow I don't want to see her namen anything as pretty as Awakening Dawn..

@Puck: Cool finds
I think this particular view is a Shake perspective and the Awakening Dawn is a Shake title (similar to Twilight and the Night Watch) and the legion is Ursander's legion.

I take this back. Jayshul is referred to with a similar title.

Stonewielder quote

Quote

The guard's gauntleted fist went to his sword. 'You will show respect. She chose not to honour you with her titles but you should know she is Jayashul 'Od Lossica. She Who Brings the Dawn. Daughter of our Lord Liossercal.'

Menandore is also tied to Dawn
where as Sheltatha Lore is tied to Dusk

This post has been edited by nacht: 10 April 2013 - 07:50 PM

[Puck]

Oooh, that Stonewielder quote's a good one, didn't remember that. So, most likely a Liosan title.

I got some more, too, again just posting quotes for now.

Both from tCG, first from Chapter 13, second from Chapter 15.

Quote

[Silchas Ruin] '[…] The Eleint blood within you is a poison. I share it, of course. My brother and I chose it for ourselves – we perceived a necessity, but that is the fatal lure of power, isn't it? With the blood of T'iam within our veins, we could bring peace to Kurald Galain. Of course, that meant crushing every House opposing us. Regrettable, but that sentiment was as far as the poison would permit us to go in our thoughts. The thousands who died could not make us hesitate, could not stop us from continuing. Killing thousands more.'

Quote

[Sandalath's PoV] One side crimson with blood, Anomander Rake straightening to face the Hust Legion. 'The invasion has just begun,' he told the waiting warriors. 'We risk being overwhelmed.' He drew a slow, deep breath, jaws briefly clenching in pain. 'I shall wait for them beyond the Rent, to deny them the Throne of Shadow. This leaves the gate itself. Hust Legion! You shall march to the gate. You shall march through it. You shall take the battle to them, and hold them there. And,' he scanned the rows of helmed faces, 'when the last five of you remain, you must give your lives to sealing that wound. You shall, Hust-armed and Hust-armoured, for ever close Starvald Demelain.'
Wailing shrieks from blades and scaled breastplates, from helms, from greaves and gauntlets, a deafening chorus that shattered into wild laughter. But within that insane glee, the faces of the Andiian warriors were expressionless. And with solemn salutes they acknowledged their lord's command.
Hust Legion, we never saw you again.
But the Eleint stopped coming.
Hust Legion, how many did you kill on that other side? How many bones lie in heaps upon that alien plain? There at the gate? I can almost... almost see them, a felled forest of bones.
But now shadows slide over them, shadows from the sky.
Anomander Rake, 'for ever' was a lie. But you knew that. You were just buying time. Thinking we would ready ourselves for the next invasion. Did we? Did anyone?

Edit: And about two pages later, more Sandalath..

Quote

[…] 'Five thousand warriors. From the mines, from the prisons. From the gutters. Five thousand. The Hust Legion – I saw them marching out from the burning city.' […] 'Their swords howled. Their armour sang with joy. No one stood by and wept. No. Instead, they ran from the laughter, they fled the streets – those not already dead. The sound – so terrible – the Hust Legion marched to their deaths, and no one watched them go!'

So, if Sandalath could be believed the Hust Legion marched to stop the Eleint from coming through, and then sealed the gate to Starvald Demelain, and so it remained until the time of the main series. Nice.

There's also a lengthy flashback from Aparal Forge's PoV (Chapter 15) to back when once Kallor visited the Liosan (I'm sure this is more known than the pieces I've been posting). So, he married Serap Issgin (Hunn Raal's cousin), who managed to have a daughter before that and this daughter then was the grandma of Kadagar Fant (the Liosan lord who stages the storm on Lightfall in DoD/tCG). Gotta love complicated family trees.
In any case, Kallor was married to Serap for like a thousand years, but if it is THE Serap, so is it likely that the High King mentioned in FoD is THE Kallor.

I think I've got more nice quotes marked, but I need to sort out my notes..

This post has been edited by Puck: 11 April 2013 - 02:13 PM

[nacht]

GotM

Quote

It is said that the matron's
blood like ice brought forth into this
world a birthing of dragons
and this flowing river of fate
brought light into dark and dark into light,

unveiling at last in cold, cold eyes the children of chaos . . .

T'MATHA'S CHILDREN HEBORIC

Quote

The flowering of light from darkness
brought into my sight there on the field
a host of dragons caught
like a crest of wind before the eternal flame.
I saw the ages in their eyes a worldly map inscribed
in each whirled scale on their hides.
Their sorcery bled from them like the breathing of stars
and I knew then
that dragons had come among us . . .

ANOMANDARIS FISHER (B.?)

This post has been edited by nacht: 17 April 2013 - 02:37 PM

[Abyss]

Puck, on 11 April 2013 - 01:56 PM, said:

...

Quote

[Sandalath's PoV] .... Hust Legion! You shall march to the gate. You shall march through it. You shall take the battle to them, and hold them there. And,' he scanned the rows of helmed faces, 'when the last five of you remain, you must give your lives to sealing that wound. You shall, Hust-armed and Hust-armoured, for ever close Starvald Demelain.'...Edit: And about two pages later, more Sandalath..
...
'Five thousand warriors. From the mines, from the prisons. From the gutters. Five thousand. The Hust Legion – I saw them marching out from the burning city.' […] 'Their swords howled. Their armour sang with joy. No one stood by and wept. No. Instead, they ran from the laughter, they fled the streets – those not already dead. The sound – so terrible – the Hust Legion marched to their deaths, and no one watched them go!'

So, if Sandalath could be believed the Hust Legion marched to stop the Eleint from coming through, and then sealed the gate to Starvald Demelain, and so it remained until the time of the main series. Nice....

Excellent quote fu. While Sandy isn't exactly the most reliable of narrators, the intro of the armor at the end of FoD certainly leave sit open for this to happen.

Now that said, when Fear, Silch and co step from Drakness into into SD, they find a field of undead/sleeping/starved dragons, not a pile of bones.
Obviously they could have been entering at a different point from where the Hust Legion marched in, but i'm wondering if what they found and faced wasn't what they or Rake expected.

[nacht]

TTH quotes

Quote

Endest Silann could feel every breach as he knelt on the cold mosaic floor of the temple’s Grand Vestry. He had once held the waters back from Moon’s Spawn. He had once, long, long ago, guided his Lord to the fateful, final encounter with Mother Dark herself. He had clasped the hand of a dying High Priestess, sharing with her the bleak knowledge that nothing awaited her, nothing at all. He had stood, gods, so long ago now, staring down at his blood-covered hands, above the body of a sweet, gentle woman, Andarist’s wife. While through the high window, the flames of dying Kharkanas flickered crimson and gold.

On the Forging of Dragnipur

Quote

After all, Dragnipur had never offered salvation. Iron forged to bind, a hundred thousand chains hammered into the blade, layers upon layers entwined, folded, wrapped like rope. Draconus, surrounded in the molten fires of Burn’s heart, drawing forth chains of every metal that existed, drawing them out link by glowing link. Twisted ropes of metal on the anvil, and down came the hammer. The one hammer, the only tool that could forge such a weapon – and he remembered its vast weight, the scalding grip that lacerated his alien hand.

Even in her dreaming, Burn had been most displeased.

Chains upon chains. Chains to bind. Bind Darkness itself, transforming the ancient forest through which it had wandered, twisting that blackwood into a wagon, into huge, tottering wheels, into a bed that formed a horizontal door – like the entrance to a barrow – above the portal. Blackwood, to hold and contain the soul of Kurald Galain.

He remembered. Sparks in countless hues skipping away like shattered rainbows. The deafening ringing of the hammer and the way the anvil trembled to every blow. The waves of heat flashing against his face. The bitter taste of raw ore, the stench of sulphur. Chains! Chains and chains, pounded down into glowing impressions upon the blade, quenched and honed and into Burn’s white heart and then – it begins again. And again. Chains! Chains to bind! Bind the Fallen!

[Kanese S's]

I don't really have anything to contribute right now, but great thread, Puck. I'd rep, but I'm all out.

[Cyclorrhapha]

Silchas Ruin regarding Eleint blood in Dust of Dreams:

Quote

Rare the blood-fouled who managed to overcome that innate megalomania. 'Ah, Udinaas,' Silchas Ruin had said. 'My brother, perhaps, Anomander. Osserc? Maybe, maybe not. There was a Bonecaster, once . . . and a Soletaken Jaghut. A handful of others—when the Eleint blood within them was thinner—and that is why I have hope for Rud Elalle, Udinaas. He is third-generation—did he not clash with his mother's will?'

Guess this means we'll see a Jaghut drinking Tiams blood, possibly in one of the next two books of this trilogy. Wondering if it's Hood/Gothos or someone that has not even made an appearance in the main series.

Props to a mate of mine for remembering where to find this quote.

This post has been edited by Cyclorrharpha: 19 April 2013 - 05:04 PM

[nacht]

Cyclorrharpha, on 19 April 2013 - 05:02 PM, said:

Silchas Ruin regarding Eleint blood in Dust of Dreams:

Quote

Rare the blood-fouled who managed to overcome that innate megalomania. 'Ah, Udinaas,' Silchas Ruin had said. 'My brother, perhaps, Anomander. Osserc? Maybe, maybe not. There was a Bonecaster, once . . . and a Soletaken Jaghut. A handful of others—when the Eleint blood within them was thinner—and that is why I have hope for Rud Elalle, Udinaas. He is third-generation—did he not clash with his mother's will?'

Guess this means we'll see a Jaghut drinking Tiams blood, possibly in one of the next two books of this trilogy. Wondering if it's Hood/Gothos or someone that has not even made an appearance in the main series.

Props to a mate of mine for remembering where to find this quote.

I dont know if Olar Ethil would be considered a bonecaster but we know she is a dragon.
I vaguely remember a discussion where Gothos was proposed to be a soletaken dragon.

[Cyclorrhapha]

@nacht, I'm positive that Silchas is referring to Olar Ethil when he mentioned a Bonecaster. As far as I can recall it was definitely mentioned more than once (pretty sure OE also stated this) that she drank Tiams life force. She's also called a Bonecaster in the Deadhouse Gates Dramatis Personae, perhaps even earlier in Gardens of the Moon.


Regarding Gothos being an Eleint Soletaken... for the life of me I can't remember this being said anywhere but given the fact that, in FoD, he did not join Hood and most of the other Jaghut population on their war on death it's possible that by staying behind the lines and engaging a completely different war (Tiste,Azathanai,Eleint) that spills the blood of dragons he might just end up being one of the many mixed up in the drinking blood of Tiam tea party.

[nacht]

There is a really long thread on this. But the case that Gothos could be the Jaghut soletaken is pure speculation (in this thread).

http://forum.malazan...r-ethil-is-who/

[nacht]

There are these interesting characters,

The Builder who appears in TTH builds Azath houses. He is called as elder (perhaps an elder god)

Quote

‘Are you a spirit?’
The huge head shook in a negative. ‘I am an Elder, and I am lost.’

‘Elder.’ Nimander frowned. ‘You call yourself that. Why?’ A shrug like hills in motion.
‘The spirits have so named me.’ ‘How did you come to be here?’ ‘I don’t know. I am lost, you see.’ ‘
And before this place?’
‘Somewhere else. I built things. Of stone. But each house I built then vanished – I know not where. It was most…frustrating.’ ‘
Do you have a name?’
‘Elder?’
‘Nothing else?’
‘Sometimes, I would carve the stone. To make it look like wood. Or bone. I remember…sunsets. Different suns, each night, different suns. Sometimes two. Sometimes three, one fierce, the others like children. I would build another house, if I could. I think, if I could do that, I would stop being lost.’

And there is the "Maker" in OST who somehow controls the spread of Vitr and mentions the Jaghut's war against death.

Quote

Maker’s blunt head turned to the restless surging sea of light. ‘The Vitr. That from which all creation comes.’

'All … creation? Everything?’
‘All that exists. All distills out of the Vitr. And all returns to dissolution. You, I. All life essence. All sentience.’

Kiska felt her brows rising higher and higher. ‘All? Everything? All races? Surely not the dragons … the Tiste … or the Jaghut.’ Maker’s shovel hands clenched into fists with a grinding and crackling of rock. The sands at his wide feet hissed and glowed, sintering into black obsidian glass. The beach shuddered and a great landslide of rocks echoed among the distant headlands. Kiska found herself on the ground, and rolled away from the searing heat surrounding Maker.

‘Speak not to me of the meddling Jaghut!’

[worry]

Do you think the TCG scene where Silchas and Tulas discuss Anomander's "final secret" has any room in this thread? It's probably too long to excerpt unfortunately. But when I re-read TCG I got the distinct feeling that Anomander took possession of the Throne of Shadow as a final measure in the wars, to remove it from play and end all the squabbling of those seeking it (as opposed to sitting in it himself), and had to kill the lone witness Tulas as a safeguard. I also got just the faintest hint that maybe Anomander himself, after all those millennia, was personally involved in the evolution of Kel and Dancer into ST and Cots -- maybe even gifting the real Throne to ST as the ultimate progenitor or conspirator of their longest-term schemes (the non-flitting, actual Kellanved might be sitting there while the smoky one is gallivanting about). Perhaps at the same time Anomander gave him the mysterious Hust sword that ST gives to Silchas, if it was indeed from him. I'm not sure if that fits anything from GotM though, so I could be wrong on the details for sure....but I think this scene shows, somehow, important connective tissue between Kharkanas Trilogy and MBotF.