[WhiskeyJackDaniels]

Khazduk, on 19 November 2013 - 08:41 AM, said:

amphibian, on 19 November 2013 - 06:41 AM, said:

However, if the last line means the greatest enemy of order, I believe that to be Tiam - born of draconean chaos. K'rul + Tiam maybe = K'rul's bargain?

I read the "its greatest avowed enemy" as "chaos" right away too.

Could also be Errastas.

Dragons are kind of naturally anathemic to order, but Errastas actually chose and "avowed" an aspect against it.

[Spoilsport Stonny]

WhiskeyJackDaniels, on 21 November 2013 - 12:57 AM, said:

Khazduk, on 19 November 2013 - 08:41 AM, said:

amphibian, on 19 November 2013 - 06:41 AM, said:

However, if the last line means the greatest enemy of order, I believe that to be Tiam - born of draconean chaos. K'rul + Tiam maybe = K'rul's bargain?

I read the "its greatest avowed enemy" as "chaos" right away too.

Could also be Errastas.

Dragons are kind of naturally anathemic to order, but Errastas actually chose and "avowed" an aspect against it.

Sort of...the Errant is more like a push in an unexpected direction. Not really chaos, not really bad luck, but more like Butch seeing Marcellus walking across the street with a box of donuts and the Errant "pushed" him to step on the gas and run his ass over.

[WhiskeyJackDaniels]

Spoilsport Stonny, on 21 November 2013 - 01:34 AM, said:

WhiskeyJackDaniels, on 21 November 2013 - 12:57 AM, said:

Khazduk, on 19 November 2013 - 08:41 AM, said:

amphibian, on 19 November 2013 - 06:41 AM, said:

However, if the last line means the greatest enemy of order, I believe that to be Tiam - born of draconean chaos. K'rul + Tiam maybe = K'rul's bargain?

I read the "its greatest avowed enemy" as "chaos" right away too.

Could also be Errastas.

Dragons are kind of naturally anathemic to order, but Errastas actually chose and "avowed" an aspect against it.

Sort of...the Errant is more like a push in an unexpected direction. Not really chaos, not really bad luck, but more like Butch seeing Marcellus walking across the street with a box of donuts and the Errant "pushed" him to step on the gas and run his ass over.

Yea but thats still chaos. I just can't decide if The Errant's actions in Forge of Darkness make it more or less likely, because he seems to have made some powerful enemies.

[amphibian]

Errastas has to hide basically from now on until forever/his death due to what he did in Forge of Darkness.

Draconus vowed revenge against him. Hood declared war on death because of him and then became Death.

[WhiskeyJackDaniels]

amphibian, on 21 November 2013 - 06:19 AM, said:

Errastas has to hide basically from now on until forever/his death due to what he did in Forge of Darkness.

Draconus vowed revenge against him. Hood declared war on death because of him and then became Death.

That is exactly my point. Errastas might go hide for a few eons until everyone calms down a bit, or he might need to make some powerful allies of his own. Maybe like a desperate K'rul?

For what it's worth, FoD made it seem like he was gonna do the run far, far away thing, I just wanted to point out that there was another agent of chaos/disorder running around besides the dragons.

[Abyss]

When we first met the Errant in MT he was 'hiding' among the Letherii royals. Had been there for generations. I wonder if he was still hiding from Hood at that point.

[WhiskeyJackDaniels]

Abyss, on 21 November 2013 - 02:23 PM, said:

When we first met the Errant in MT he was 'hiding' among the Letherii royals. Had been there for generations. I wonder if he was still hiding from Hood at that point.

My gut reaction to that would be he wasn't still hiding from Hood in MT because he had obviously been a very active god on Lether for awhile before getting bored and slipping into the life of the royal consort. But then again, Lether was probably the best place in the world to hide from the god of death after Gothos ritual, so yea, he probably was there hiding from Hood (at least initially).

[Spoilsport Stonny]

I still don't think the Errant represents chaos. Chaos is complete disorder and confusion. He doesn't desire that. He relishes the change in the course of events that his aspect empowers, and I think its even stated somewhere that he can't help it. Now, perhaps that is closer to chaos than it is to order, but I wouldn't even go that far. There are countless possibilities that could result from an action, as in the butterfly effect (not the movie. That was terrible). The Errant nudges the action to result in a particular possibility. The entire realm of possibilities is, in fact, an order, not a disorder.

There is some connection, however, to chaos theory here, i.e. widely divergent outcomes based on small differences in initial conditions. But Chaos theory and chaos are not quite the same thing, as Chaos theory refers to an apparent lack of order in a system that nevertheless obeys particular laws or rules, and is more about predictability (or the absence thereof) in physical systems.

My short theory about why he ended up in Lether: He flees to the High Kingdom, where he is promptly told to GTFO. Dissembelackis is a member of the High Kingdom, but chooses to leave along with the Errant and they go to proto-Seven Cities. There, Errastas causes all kinds of bullshit, like fucking with the Soletaken Ritual, causing that whole thing to take a different direction, and heads to Lether when elements of the Fist Human Empire travel there. Details are sketchy. I may alter this upon timeline clarity.

[Aptorian]

I think you are all putting way too much emphasis on Errastas and what he did to Hoods wife. Hood himself says something to the effect of "his beef is not with the Errastas". Errastas is a child. He did something bad. Something that will most likely become the foundation of the entire pantheon later. And he ran away. I think that is about all there is to that story for now.

From the interactions between the gods in DOD and TCG I get the feeling that the Errant rose to power later. Not just a Master of the Tiles but he became a kind of King of the Gods for a while. Or maybe it was just a small band of them that teamed up. What ever the case I sincerely doubt that the Errant ran away and hid in an Empire for half a million years.

Being the Master of the Tiles is a pretty official job. It's not the kind of job you take if you want to avoid the spotlight.

Quote

alas, his choice of potential allies is suspect. In the name of order, K'rul seeks its greatest avowed enemy.

We know that the opposite of Order is Chaos. Dragons represent chaos. Does it really need to be more complicated than that?

We know he strikes a deal with the dragons that means a bunch of them become aspects of power. We know from legend that the twin chambers of K'ruls heart contains Kurald Galain and Starvald Demelain.

Why would K'rul be enemies with Errastas? Because of the stunt he pulled with the blood? I don't think he's that petty. Errastas only did what would have happened eventually.

This post has been edited by Crustaceous Apt: 21 November 2013 - 04:19 PM

[Salt-Man Z]

Crustaceous Apt, on 21 November 2013 - 04:17 PM, said:

Quote

alas, his choice of potential allies is suspect. In the name of order, K'rul seeks its greatest avowed enemy.

We know that the opposite of Order is Chaos. Dragons represent chaos. Does it really need to be more complicated than that?

We know he strikes a deal with the dragons that means a bunch of them become aspects of power. We know from legend that the twin chambers of K'ruls heart contains Kurald Galain and Starvald Demelain.

Exactly this. Occam's Razor, people!

[Spoilsport Stonny]

The whole reason he stays in Lether is because he has power there, due to Gothos ritual preventing the warrens, and thus the houses, from having any kind of effect, forcing them to rely on the Holds and the Cedance.

[amphibian]

Right, so until Gothos makes the ritual preventing spiritual death on an entire continent, Sechul Lath tricks Kilmandaros into staying in an Azath house and Draconus gets trapped in the sword, Errastas runs and runs and runs.

He's got no time to be making alliances with K'rul.

[Aptorian]

Again I don't buy the idea that Errastas is a chicken and hides himself away. Them fleeing across the sea was obviously a tactical withdrawal

Admittedly I have been fan of his since Midnight Tides but I imagine him more as the trickster god that manipulates things to his advantage. We know he became the Master of the Tiles. This to me suggests that when he began the connection between blood and magic and power or what ever he did in that pocket warren, he was setting the stage for him to grasp power. We know he led an army and we know people warred against him.

This post has been edited by Crustaceous Apt: 21 November 2013 - 08:55 PM

[Spoilsport Stonny]

Spoiler

This post has been edited by Spoilsport Stonny: 21 November 2013 - 09:07 PM

[Tarthenal Theloman Toblakai]

I would hide from Draconus even if I knew he was imprisoned within his own sword wouldn't you guys? I think their are two people able to stop Draconus, Rake and maybe Dassem. Rake stopped him once (I don't know how but this might be because I haven't read FOD yet, or because I forgot?) and I think Dassem is the best swordsman left on the Planet. Not sure if Karsa could stop him or maybe some avowed but I think everybody on the planet knows not to fuck with Draconus!

[Aptorian]

I think that a coconut falling out of tree could kill Draconus. Or a rogue spear lying around on the ground could best him in open comabat.

[Spoilsport Stonny]

Don't underestimate the humans. I think Tavore, Ganoes and Quick Ben would have a good shot of taking out the Suzerain.

[WhiskeyJackDaniels]

Spoilsport Stonny, on 25 November 2013 - 03:06 PM, said:

Don't underestimate the humans. I think Tavore, Ganoes and Quick Ben would have a good shot of taking out the Suzerain.

I am fine with your comment about their being powerful humans that could give Draconus a run for his money, but how'd Tavore make that list?

[Spoilsport Stonny]

She's an exceptional strategist, second to none, able to gather allies to her cause for reasons unknown. I have no doubt that she could find a way to defeat Draconus. One on one? Probably not, but thats not really her forte. Its a bit of a stretch, yes, but I cannot count her out of anything.

[Tarthenal Theloman Toblakai]

not sure how quick or Paran could interact with him considering his Ascendant status, Ascendants and other special persons tend to have a high sensitivity for power, given Paran and Quick standing together every ascendant on the planet would probably know their location especially one as powerful as Draconus. I certainly doubt they could kill him whereas Tavore and Quick are certainly mortal at this point, Paran is a bit of a mystery though, ascendant? almost ascendant? unique? I think the super special list of people needed to ATTEMPT to take out Draconus would need to include more major players of old school origins like Brood, or Korlat etc. I am not sure the new school would fare well against true ascendants in the know. I suppose quick did suprise Silchas but I wouldn't imagine that happening again any time soon. I suppose you may be right in that the trio would have the element of suprise and stand a chance. Still though....Draconus guys! C'mon!!