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ASSAIL Aka ICE 5: The Culminating Convergence SPOILERS!!!!

#1 User is offline   Werthead 

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 09:26 PM

Since we can't add topics to the 'Forthcoming Books' thing, this seems as good a place as any.

Rather oddly, City in the Jungle has popped up again on Amazon recently as a forthcoming book. This is quite odd as City in the Jungle was the working title for Blood and Bone. It appears Amazon are using the title as a placeholder for ICE 5, which will apparently be published on 7 November this year. Previously the book had the working title of Assail, although I think it was always the plan to pick something a bit less terse as the final title (I'm still holding out for Silverfox vs. Kyle).

So anyway, it does sound like the final book in the ICE sub-series is out this year as we originally hoped, and we will finally be visiting Assail and seeing why the place makes even gods and ascendants wet themselves in terror.
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#2 User is offline   Jussi 

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 10:22 PM

http://forum.malazan...showtopic=25449
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Posted 10 March 2013 - 10:26 PM

View PostWerthead, on 10 March 2013 - 09:26 PM, said:

Since we can't add topics to the 'Forthcoming Books' thing, this seems as good a place as any.

Rather oddly, City in the Jungle has popped up again on Amazon recently as a forthcoming book. This is quite odd as City in the Jungle was the working title for Blood and Bone. It appears Amazon are using the title as a placeholder for ICE 5, which will apparently be published on 7 November this year. Previously the book had the working title of Assail, although I think it was always the plan to pick something a bit less terse as the final title (I'm still holding out for Silverfox vs. Kyle).


I wouldn't mind if it was just called Assail. Personally I don't want it to follow the last two, giving us something like Orb Sceptre Throne, Blood and Bone, Root and Willow or something like that. A nice terse one-word title would be fine by me.


View PostWerthead, on 10 March 2013 - 09:26 PM, said:

and we will finally be visiting Assail and seeing why the place makes even gods and ascendants wet themselves in terror.


Well, we sorta already know that there's some "Tyrants" there who can probably resurrect/control the dead, giving them inexhaustible armies for an endless struggle that is "just a game". And you just know Skinner and the brethren are going to give the Tyrants some fun new toys when the Guard get there...

View Postworrywort, on 14 September 2012 - 08:07 PM, said:

I kinda love it when D'rek unleashes her nerd wrath, as I knew she would here. Sorry innocent bystanders, but someone's gotta be the kindling.
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#4 User is offline   worry 

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 10:35 PM

Daaaaaang you just broke my brain.
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Posted 11 March 2013 - 01:45 AM

View PostJussi, on 10 March 2013 - 10:22 PM, said:


Exactly a month earlier, to the day.

This post has been edited by Salt-Man Z: 11 March 2013 - 01:45 AM

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 03:15 AM

I thought I was about to get an eviction notice or something when I saw this in the "Recently Added Topics" drop down menu. Sorry... had to say that and let you know about the overwhelming anxiety that just happened. lol
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#7 User is offline   Cause 

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 09:48 AM

View PostD, on 10 March 2013 - 10:26 PM, said:

View PostWerthead, on 10 March 2013 - 09:26 PM, said:

Since we can't add topics to the 'Forthcoming Books' thing, this seems as good a place as any.

Rather oddly, City in the Jungle has popped up again on Amazon recently as a forthcoming book. This is quite odd as City in the Jungle was the working title for Blood and Bone. It appears Amazon are using the title as a placeholder for ICE 5, which will apparently be published on 7 November this year. Previously the book had the working title of Assail, although I think it was always the plan to pick something a bit less terse as the final title (I'm still holding out for Silverfox vs. Kyle).


I wouldn't mind if it was just called Assail. Personally I don't want it to follow the last two, giving us something like Orb Sceptre Throne, Blood and Bone, Root and Willow or something like that. A nice terse one-word title would be fine by me.


View PostWerthead, on 10 March 2013 - 09:26 PM, said:

and we will finally be visiting Assail and seeing why the place makes even gods and ascendants wet themselves in terror.


Well, we sorta already know that there's some "Tyrants" there who can probably resurrect/control the dead, giving them inexhaustible armies for an endless struggle that is "just a game". And you just know Skinner and the brethren are going to give the Tyrants some fun new toys when the Guard get there...



What makes you think they have mastery over the undead?

If the previous books we have read are in anyway meant to link up to Assail I am hoping it will be more Jhaghut tyrants who have soul shifted into humans who are leading armies of Seguleh like soldiers. Otherwise the Seguleh beyond being cool have achieved very little for all their appearances and orb sceptre and throne was a wasted book. It would be nice for the Ice Riders to somehow be involved too.
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#8 User is offline   champ 

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 12:49 PM

As long as there is a ship on the cover I couldn't care less what it is called.

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#9 User is offline   Spoilsport Stonny 

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 02:28 PM

They should call it "The Hot Tyrant who was Human or Maybe Some Kinda Jaghut" and make it an erotic novel. Nevermind. I'm writing that one.
Theorizing that one could poop within his own lifetime, Doctor Poopet led an elite group of scientists into the desert to develop a top secret project, known as QUANTUM POOP. Pressured to prove his theories or lose funding, Doctor Poopet, prematurely stepped into the Poop Accelerator and vanished. He awoke to find himself in the past, suffering from partial amnesia and facing a mirror image that was not his own. Fortunately, contact with his own bowels was made through brainwave transmissions, with Al the Poop Observer, who appeared in the form of a hologram that only Doctor Poopet could see and hear. Trapped in the past, Doctor Poopet finds himself pooping from life to life, pooping things right, that once went wrong and hoping each time, that his next poop will be the poop home.
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Posted 11 March 2013 - 02:50 PM

View PostCause, on 11 March 2013 - 09:48 AM, said:

View PostD, on 10 March 2013 - 10:26 PM, said:


View PostWerthead, on 10 March 2013 - 09:26 PM, said:


Since we can't add topics to the 'Forthcoming Books' thing, this seems as good a place as any. <a href='http://www.amazon.co.uk/City-Jungle-title-Cameron-Esslemont/dp/0593064488/ref=sr_1_10?s=books&amp;ie=UTF8&amp;qid=1362859662&amp;sr=1-10' class='bbc_url' title='External link' rel='nofollow external'>Rather oddly, <i>City in the Jungle</i> has popped up again on Amazon recently as a forthcoming book</a>. This is quite odd as <i>City in the Jungle</i> was the working title for <i>Blood and Bone</i>. It appears Amazon are using the title as a placeholder for ICE 5, which will apparently be published on 7 November this year. Previously the book had the working title of <i>Assail</i>, although I think it was always the plan to pick something a bit less terse as the final title (I'm still holding out for <i>Silverfox vs. Kyle</i>).

I wouldn't mind if it was just called Assail. Personally I don't want it to follow the last two, giving us something like Orb Sceptre Throne, Blood and Bone, Root and Willow or something like that. A nice terse one-word title would be fine by me.

View PostWerthead, on 10 March 2013 - 09:26 PM, said:

and we will finally be visiting Assail and seeing why the place makes even gods and ascendants wet themselves in terror.

Well, we sorta already know that there's some &quot;Tyrants&quot; there who can probably resurrect/control the dead, giving them inexhaustible armies for an endless struggle that is &quot;just a game&quot;. And you just <i>know</i> Skinner and the brethren are going to give the Tyrants some fun new toys when the Guard get there...

What makes you think they have mastery over the undead?
If the previous books we have read are in anyway meant to link up to Assail I am hoping it will be more Jhaghut tyrants who have soul shifted into humans who are leading armies of Seguleh like soldiers. Otherwise the Seguleh beyond being cool have achieved very little for all their appearances and orb sceptre and throne was a wasted book. It would be nice for the Ice Riders to somehow be involved too.

Well, our totality of information on Assail amounts to more or less this:

MoI, Lanas Tog - the Kerluhm and Ifayle T'lan Imass armies have suffered horrendous losses and cannot escape the continent
MoI, Lanas Tog - the "Tyrants" are human
MT/RG, Iron Bars and co. - an entire Crimson Guard company got devastated in Assail
RotCG, Shimmer - the remaining Guard have no contact with Cal-Brinn and his company (it is indeterminate whether the Brethren can communicate between continents, though)
RotCG, Lost Brothers - the ghostly Brethren are "too much like home" to Badlands/Coots
tBH, Cotillion - "amongst the Tyrants there, it is all a game" (or something like that)
TtH, Spinnock - the situation there is self-contained

...which is not very much. But much of that comes from SE, who was not planning to visit there, while ICE is, so the hints from ICE from Badlands/Coots I think are going to be the key to this. It's one thing for characters who have heard of Assail to hype it up, it's another for characters who once lived there to make a pretty direct comment about it.
Granted, you could put anything on Assail, but I think going with Badlands/Coots' comment which implies the undead makes the most sense for a force that is capable of destroying 40k T'lan Imass but is still somehow self-contained to the continent. Furthermore, I think the Guard events so far have been foreshadowing something like this.
But that's just my guess. We will have to wait and see for certaintiy.

re: Seguleh/Stormriders - I could see Traveller finding a reason to take the Seguleh to Assail, given how lost of a people they are. That'd be interesting. There's not really any reason for the Stormriders to appear that works with their development in SW, though, is there? They're unfathomable alien ice creatures who once migrated across Korel, then were repulsed by The Lady and so began a millenia-long war between the Riders and The Lady. Now that is over, and presumably there are some odd changes going on in Korel with the Riders being able to roam anywhere in Korelian waters, but that wouldn't have any impact on Assail, nor is there anything left to develop on them, so I don't see any reason for them to show up in this book, so far.

View Postworrywort, on 14 September 2012 - 08:07 PM, said:

I kinda love it when D'rek unleashes her nerd wrath, as I knew she would here. Sorry innocent bystanders, but someone's gotta be the kindling.
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#11 User is offline   Salt-Man Z 

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 02:57 PM

View Postchamp, on 11 March 2013 - 12:49 PM, said:

As long as there is a ship on the cover I couldn't care less what it is called.

Yeah, they should do something different this time...maybe a generic dude with a sword.
"Here is light. You will say that it is not a living entity, but you miss the point that it is more, not less. Without occupying space, it fills the universe. It nourishes everything, yet itself feeds upon destruction. We claim to control it, but does it not perhaps cultivate us as a source of food? May it not be that all wood grows so that it can be set ablaze, and that men and women are born to kindle fires?"
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#12 User is offline   Spoilsport Stonny 

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 02:59 PM

View PostD, on 11 March 2013 - 02:50 PM, said:

re: Seguleh/Stormriders - I could see Traveller finding a reason to take the Seguleh to Assail, given how lost of a people they are. That'd be interesting. There's not really any reason for the Stormriders to appear that works with their development in SW, though, is there? They're unfathomable alien ice creatures who once migrated across Korel, then were repulsed by The Lady and so began a millenia-long war between the Riders and The Lady. Now that is over, and presumably there are some odd changes going on in Korel with the Riders being able to roam anywhere in Korelian waters, but that wouldn't have any impact on Assail, nor is there anything left to develop on them, so I don't see any reason for them to show up in this book, so far.


I think we'll see a bunch of Light/Liosan/Osserc stuff too, maybe as related to Assail in varying degrees, maybe not. THat's where we will see the Stormriders, b/c I think the whole vitr/whorl thing is what T'riss was talking to them about in BaB and kind of connects to her original gift of light to Urusander. In that respect, I believe our old pal Tayschrenn will make an appearance, is some fashion and Leoman will finally redeem himself. All this is why I dont think they'll just call the novel Assail, but something sexier.
Theorizing that one could poop within his own lifetime, Doctor Poopet led an elite group of scientists into the desert to develop a top secret project, known as QUANTUM POOP. Pressured to prove his theories or lose funding, Doctor Poopet, prematurely stepped into the Poop Accelerator and vanished. He awoke to find himself in the past, suffering from partial amnesia and facing a mirror image that was not his own. Fortunately, contact with his own bowels was made through brainwave transmissions, with Al the Poop Observer, who appeared in the form of a hologram that only Doctor Poopet could see and hear. Trapped in the past, Doctor Poopet finds himself pooping from life to life, pooping things right, that once went wrong and hoping each time, that his next poop will be the poop home.
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#13 User is offline   D'rek 

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 05:47 PM

View PostStalking Stonny, on 11 March 2013 - 02:59 PM, said:

<br />

View PostD, on 11 March 2013 - 02:50 PM, said:

<br />re: Seguleh/Stormriders - I could see Traveller finding a reason to take the Seguleh to Assail, given how lost of a people they are. That'd be interesting. There's not really any reason for the Stormriders to appear that works with their development in SW, though, is there? They're unfathomable alien ice creatures who once migrated across Korel, then were repulsed by The Lady and so began a millenia-long war between the Riders and The Lady. Now that is over, and presumably there are some odd changes going on in Korel with the Riders being able to roam anywhere in Korelian waters, but that wouldn't have any impact on Assail, nor is there anything left to develop on them, so I don't see any reason for them to show up in this book, so far.<br />
<br /><br />I think we'll see a bunch of Light/Liosan/Osserc stuff too, maybe as related to Assail in varying degrees, maybe not. THat's where we will see the Stormriders, b/c I think the whole vitr/whorl thing is what T'riss was talking to them about in BaB and kind of connects to her original gift of light to Urusander. In that respect, I believe our old pal Tayschrenn will make an appearance, is some fashion and Leoman will finally redeem himself. All this is why I dont think they'll just call the novel Assail, but something sexier.<br />
<br /><br /><br />

This kinda leads into an interesting topic of which dangling plot threads will be wrapped up in ICE #6. The only real SE plotline is Silverfox, which we will surely learn of what happened to her and the Logros/Kron with her, even if they don't appear on-screen in ICE #6 (it has been, after all, many years since they left in MoI/HoC). ICE, though, has left several plots open from his previous works.

Crimson Guard? Check
Kyle? YOU KNOW IT
Ghelel? Probably not.
Osseric, the Liosan army from SW and more Light-aspect stuff? Probably in some form or another.
Tayschrenn/T'renn and wtf is going on with him? I will be super sad if not.
Stormriders? Maybe, but even if we do see them I don't think there's anything left to explain about them.
Traveller, with some continuation of his Seguleh/Army of Redemption segments? Could go either way, I think.
Something to do with all these Crippled God pieces that aren't making it to the Unchaining? Hmm, now that could make for an interesting convergence...

View Postworrywort, on 14 September 2012 - 08:07 PM, said:

I kinda love it when D'rek unleashes her nerd wrath, as I knew she would here. Sorry innocent bystanders, but someone's gotta be the kindling.
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Posted 11 March 2013 - 06:52 PM

View PostD, on 11 March 2013 - 05:47 PM, said:

...Something to do with all these Crippled God pieces that aren't making it to the Unchaining? Hmm, now that could make for an interesting convergence...


Now that's a big ugly question right there... so far we have CG chunks at the heart of SW and BaB, but the core of the Assail mystery is hinted to involve the FA vs Jaghut conflict, one or more human empires, and (aspect) Death. I'd almost be dissappointed if the whole thing came down to another stray CG chunk, but given what The Lady was revealed to have pulled off with the Stormwall, the entire continent could turn out to be a great big altar ... which would actually be pretty cool now that i think about it...

We know from MoI that some Tlan Imass clans became engaged on Assail and wouldn't extract themselves, and SFox took more clans to the party. It's unknown whether there's an older connection to the Imass... if the hint in TtH that Assail is an unending FA v Jaghut conflict pays off, then the Imass connection is there, tho MoI also suggested the Empires were human, not Jaghut.

The Crimson Guard bring a possible 'modern' version of the Imass' Tellan Ritual to the show, with a peculiar undeath (the Brethren and whatever's happening to K'azz) that RCG and elsewhere suggested may mirror something going on on Assail, and BaB showed us the Brethren may not be as dead as they thought they were.

Throw a stray CG chunk or two into the mix and things could be on a fast train headed to awesometown.
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#15 User is offline   Spoilsport Stonny 

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 07:19 PM

View PostAbyss, on 11 March 2013 - 06:52 PM, said:



The Crimson Guard bring a possible 'modern' version of the Imass' Tellan Ritual to the show, with a peculiar undeath (the Brethren and whatever's happening to K'azz) that RCG and elsewhere suggested may mirror something going on on Assail, and BaB showed us the Brethren may not be as dead as they thought they were.




I've lately thought of K'azz as like a Dorian Gray type, with the Crimson Guard being the portrait, if you will, and the more that die, the closer to frailty and death is K'azz's appearance. No real basis for this, but it seems like the kind of trope these guys would like to subvert.
Theorizing that one could poop within his own lifetime, Doctor Poopet led an elite group of scientists into the desert to develop a top secret project, known as QUANTUM POOP. Pressured to prove his theories or lose funding, Doctor Poopet, prematurely stepped into the Poop Accelerator and vanished. He awoke to find himself in the past, suffering from partial amnesia and facing a mirror image that was not his own. Fortunately, contact with his own bowels was made through brainwave transmissions, with Al the Poop Observer, who appeared in the form of a hologram that only Doctor Poopet could see and hear. Trapped in the past, Doctor Poopet finds himself pooping from life to life, pooping things right, that once went wrong and hoping each time, that his next poop will be the poop home.
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#16 User is offline   Cause 

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 07:26 PM

View PostAbyss, on 11 March 2013 - 06:52 PM, said:

View PostD, on 11 March 2013 - 05:47 PM, said:

...Something to do with all these Crippled God pieces that aren't making it to the Unchaining? Hmm, now that could make for an interesting convergence...


Now that's a big ugly question right there... so far we have CG chunks at the heart of SW and BaB, but the core of the Assail mystery is hinted to involve the FA vs Jaghut conflict, one or more human empires, and (aspect) Death. I'd almost be dissappointed if the whole thing came down to another stray CG chunk, but given what The Lady was revealed to have pulled off with the Stormwall, the entire continent could turn out to be a great big altar ... which would actually be pretty cool now that i think about it...

We know from MoI that some Tlan Imass clans became engaged on Assail and wouldn't extract themselves, and SFox took more clans to the party. It's unknown whether there's an older connection to the Imass... if the hint in TtH that Assail is an unending FA v Jaghut conflict pays off, then the Imass connection is there, tho MoI also suggested the Empires were human, not Jaghut.

The Crimson Guard bring a possible 'modern' version of the Imass' Tellan Ritual to the show, with a peculiar undeath (the Brethren and whatever's happening to K'azz) that RCG and elsewhere suggested may mirror something going on on Assail, and BaB showed us the Brethren may not be as dead as they thought they were.

Throw a stray CG chunk or two into the mix and things could be on a fast train headed to awesometown.


This again makes me think Jhagut who are ruling human empires. Their is no such thing as a Jhagut empire so they have to rule something else after all. Specifically, perhaps more soul shifting Jhagut as well.

Also we know whatever is their is killing Imass but that to my mind does not necessarilly mean more Imass. Seguleh like soldiers could and have killed Imass. Also the Imass could leave I think (the messenger got out) its more like they wont without winning, which they cant. Lastly recall the messenger was impaled with several ensorcerelled blades so something epic is going on their.
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Posted 11 March 2013 - 08:57 PM

In OST the Miner Imass had no trouble telling that the Tyrant was human, not Jaghut. Presumably if Jaghut were active on Assail, the Imass messenger/coatrack in MoI would have known it.

But contrast that with Brood's discussion with Endest Silan in TtH that the FA/Jaghut conflict is still going on in Assail....

Unless it's the humans who are directing the FA and Jaghut....


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#18 User is offline   worry 

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 09:03 PM

Just to add to the list of danglers, there are two fish SE brought in that ICE seemed to throw back in the water: Seguleh 2nd and Dunsparrow.

Nowadays I tend to agree with the interpretation that Ghelel's finale implied Moss was after her and would eventually succeed. At best, there's an off-screen cat and mouse game out there.

Stormriders -- there is the possible Tiste connection there. Tend to agree with D'rek that we've got their purpose on lock. We just don't have their origins (which could come up in Assail, or could come up in the Karkhanas trilogy, or none of the above, who knows?).
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Posted 11 March 2013 - 09:10 PM

The Emperor Rel subplot may resurface with Ghelel's story, perhaps not in the Assail book but a later ICE malaz book. The Empire has been part of every book to some extent, so it's not unthinkable that there may be an element of it in the Assail story.

And while it's implied that Moss was gunning for Ghelel, he may have had a less sinister motive.


The Dead Second ... i dunno if we'll see it, but given the hints that Death may not 'work' on Assail or with the Brethren, this would seem to be the logical time for him to resurface.


I think we've seen all we're going to about the Stormriders.
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Posted 11 March 2013 - 09:40 PM

View PostAbyss, on 11 March 2013 - 09:10 PM, said:

I think we've seen all we're going to about the Stormriders.


I agree. We'll never learn what their "origin" is because not a single character in the books knows either.

View Postworrywort, on 14 September 2012 - 08:07 PM, said:

I kinda love it when D'rek unleashes her nerd wrath, as I knew she would here. Sorry innocent bystanders, but someone's gotta be the kindling.
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