[Blend]

Wow, didn't expect so much to happen while I was away, what with the freeze and all...

So, regarding the whole Dude 'reveal' thing - seems to me that if he's fake 'revealing' cause he's scum, that probably makes him the symp. Brings us back to who might he be symping? Obvious answers are either myself or Tatts, seeing as we were on the chopping block during Day 1, and the best way to pull everyone's attention away from that is to fake 'reveal' thus drawing everyone's attention to him. Now, I debated whether I should bring this up or not, for the obvious reason that this makes ME just as suspicious as Tatts, but I decided, in the end, that rather than hide in a hole and not stick my neck out in hopes of not getting lynched, it would be more important to point out that it would be better to lynch a killer than a symp. Anyway, all that to say that I think it would be smarter to vote Tatts. I'll move to The Dude if you're all really set on it, but I do think we should aim for a killer rather than what seems to me to be an obvious symp... so....

vote Tattersail

[Tattersail_]

Sixty, on 19 January 2013 - 12:53 AM, said:

Tattersail, on 18 January 2013 - 10:47 PM, said:

Sixty, on 18 January 2013 - 10:27 PM, said:

Tattersail, on 18 January 2013 - 09:22 PM, said:

Sixty, on 18 January 2013 - 08:13 PM, said:

Well I'll leave my vote where it was at the end of day one. I think that we are best off lynching Tatts for reasons outlined at the end of day one, but I'd settle for lynching Blend as well. The fact we couldn't lynch either of them (and frankly I was a bit worried we were gonna no-lynch even without the board going down) is rather telling IMO.

Vote Tattersail

If not me then Blend.

Based on the end of day one I'd say you and blend are the prime candidates, no?

I'm more interested in you trying to speed a lynch when people aren't around and HO is being fingered. Prime candidates you say why? Go back and build a case rather than taking the embassy option so that people may vote along. Its easy to say its got to be one of those two because they were up yesterday.

Khell had gone very quiet boy I suppose that's because the limelight is elsewhere.

Both of you had decent-sized trains on you at some point. Blend was full emo-I'm-about-to-be-lynched mode. Yet we couldn't pull a lynch on either of you? Being that it was day one you'd expect people to be happy to swap to secure the lynch, but there were people online before the downtime who didn't get their votes in. Of course it's possible, perhaps even likely that those people would've laid down votes if not for the downtime, but that's something we can't know for sure at this stage. I consider that failure to lynch something that makes both of you suspicious, and between the two of you I find you more suspicious based on your initial reaction to those 2 first votes.

You keep saying this but it is very weak, go back and highlight my "reaction" if you can, then show me how it is different to how I've played all game. You're case is weak and although Silencer had said that you completely ignore him and have tunnel vision towards me. Day one I went away with ample time when I could've been lynches is that "reacting"?

[Tattersail_]

Finally caught up until Bubba said anything I was going to suggest we lynch them both HO and The Dude and that way we would have got 1 scum for sure.

Now though it does look to be fake so The Dude should explain his actions as they are the scummiest to date.

I hate to say it but I agree with Blend and therefore Sixty that it has got to be one of us today, I'd push for The Dude lynch because he is obvious Scum but not a killer unless he thought he'd get away with it

[Silencer]

Tattersail, on 19 January 2013 - 09:07 AM, said:

Finally caught up until Bubba said anything I was going to suggest we lynch them both HO and The Dude and that way we would have got 1 scum for sure.

Now though it does look to be fake so The Dude should explain his actions as they are the scummiest to date.

I hate to say it but I agree with Blend and therefore Sixty that it has got to be one of us today, I'd push for The Dude lynch because he is obvious Scum but not a killer unless he thought he'd get away with it

It is still possible that the Dude is just getting leniency from Bubba and was making a very, ludicrously risky play. Of course, it's also still possible that the Dude is a Killer trying to absolutely guarantee victory through a very, ludicrously risky play.

The trouble is, there isn't any guarantee that the Dude was simply distracting us from Blend and you, Tatts. It's likely if he's a symp that this is what he's doing, but it would also not be out of consideration to find a symp playing...a non-standard long-game on the thread. I.e. no pressure on his real masters, do something like this. Why? WCS for him, is he gets lynched (that's still one scum down, even if it's not a necessary scum). But other than that, it's allll positives - WIFOM all over the fucking place, we either lynch the (innocent) people he's "distracting" us from (in this case, you and Blend) - to no resolution without a CF - or we lynch the person who he is pointing his finger at (HO) - again, with no resolution because there is no CF.

In other words, that would be an almost flawless scum play (which is why I doubt it to be the case, but still). It has only one possible downside - loss of a symp - and the upsides that arise from every other conceivable scenario are vast and massively beneficial to Team Scum.


Of course, the trouble with that theory is that it leaves us with nothing. Except that the Dude would be scum - i.e the correct lynch choice. Why? Because if we assume the Dude is scum, of any kind, and making this play, which is becoming increasingly likely, then leaving him alive is a mistake - because we lynch Tatts or Blend today? Who then, tomorrow? The other one? Because believe me, the killers WILL leave the walking talking can of WIFOM that the Dude now is alive. And then where are we? Nowhere. Not without a CF to ratify Blend or Tatt's CF.
But if we lynch the Dude today, then we get rid of the WIFOM, and we can start again looking at the generous info produced by today's discussion. We SHOULD have lynched one of you yesterday - but today is different. And tomorrow now has the potential to be a lot better.


That being said, I'm definitely not advocating a speed lynch. I'd still like to hear the Dude's answers to my questions upthread, his opinion on this clusterfuck, and we're in a damn weekend freeze with more than 30 hours on the clock. The fact that we've already got, what, three votes on the Dude isn't a *good* thing. We need to consider all angles and hear a lot more input if today is going to be as productive as it has the potential to be.

But imo, the "obvious" route we would go in a CF game is ruled out - as is obvious option two(lynch Tatts/lynch Blend): because that just keeps us running on from day one and leaves the WIFOM sitting there, with NO CF to bring an end to the madness with their lynches. Thus the best route is lynching the very probably scum player - even if he's just a symp, it gives us an extra day to play (potentially) and more importantly kills the WIFOM in the room. Which is very important right now, if you ask me. *shrug*

[Lizradusa]

11 Players still alive: Blend, Bonecaster, Dude, Hiddenone, Hinter, Khell, Lady Bliss, Silencer, Sixty, Tapper, Tattersail

6 votes to lynch, 6 votes to go to night.

1 Vote for Hiddenone ( Dude )
1 Vote for Tapper ( Tattersail )
3 Votes for Dude ( Silencer, Hinter, Bonecaster )
2 Votes for Tattersail ( Sixty, Blend )

Players not voted: Hiddenone, Khell, Lady Bliss, Tapper

[Bonecaster]

The Dude definitely muddied the waters intentionally. Others are, doubtless, doing the same thing. But the only one we know did so is Dude. X or Y may be untrustworthy, but Dude is untrustrorthy. So let's get rid of one we know is definitely throwing mud in the waters.

[HiddenOne]

what a friggin' mess. Veiled reveal is fake, I know - we have no means of confirming through the usual way.

The Dude is savvy, no doubt, so whatever his play, there has to be a great potential gain for him in this gamble. He has created the WIFOM bomb and unleashed it. As said above, his motivation could be distracting from his master(s), muddying up the thread, a sweeping strategy to build our trust and run the whole game as PI, and so on - none of them are town's goals, only scum.

Vote the Dude

[Tattersail_]

We do have bags of time, I agree the Dude is the best way to go today and that's probably where my vote will end up.

[Silencer]

Whoa, whoa! Four out of six votes already? Calm the FUCK down, ladies and gentlemen!

We are in weekend freeze and there is so much time left on the clock I don't even need to count it to know it's practically a full day once the clock starts again. I know the Dude looks scummy as fuck right now but let's not lynch him overnight, huh? O.o

I'm very tempted to remove my vote for safety purposes, jeez.

[HiddenOne]

I will remove if need be

[Khellendros]

Hello all, sorry for my absence yesterday, twas unavoidable. And I probably won't be around too much this weekend either.

The first thing I thought when I saw the Dude's post was: 'Modkill'. For a game like this, with the pretty clear objectives which it hopes to achieve, I was a bit disappointed, as I thought it crossed over what was 'acceptable.'

Having said that, stupidity could just as easily equate to bona fide finder as it could to scum for me. Anyone who did that kind of post obviously wasn't fully cognizant of the rule applications, whatever their own role might be. So for me it's not definitive proof that the Dude is scum, just that he's played badly.

Going off how I've seen the Dude play before, he tends to coast the first half/two-thirds of the game, before exploding into action around endgame. So this is unusual play for him to say the least. Which makes me think something is forcing his hand, or at least he feels something is forcing his hand.

If we theorise that he is a symp, then the obvious thing seems to be either Tattersail or Blend (or both?! Well, not too likely). If he is a finder, perhaps something we don't know about has made him rush. So I want to wait to see what the Dude says. I wonder at this moment if it has anything to do with that 'parting word' which the Professor pulled people aside for in the scene.


What makes me quite nervous is how quickly the likes of Hinter, Bonecaster, and HO jumped on the Dude train - that was startling. And Silencer, even though he is asking people to slow down, could easily himelf be saying that to make him seem more inno after starting the train in the first place. But those jump on votes make me very very nervous.

I won't vote anything yet, but I do want to ask - has anyone looked at the Gnaw NK? If not, I'm going to have a look through his posts, see if there's any sort of possible clue there.

[Bonecaster]

What seems obvious to all of you is almost never obvious to me, being as how I never so much as heard of Mafia until a few days ago. I don't expect to be handed such clear-cut situations often, so I'm not gonna waste it.

[HiddenOne]

I never have any problem voting for somebody who fake-reveals against me, Khell - and I don't think you would either.

[Khellendros]

HiddenOne, on 19 January 2013 - 02:31 PM, said:

I never have any problem voting for somebody who fake-reveals against me, Khell - and I don't think you would either.

Of course not, but the rest of us have no way of knowing that even if Dude is lynched. With the no CF, your voting could just as easily be interpreted as gratefully jumping on a speeding lynch train, and afterwards pronouncing to all and sundry how you're now CI because the Dude is so obviously scum.


Disclaimer: I am making no actual judgement one way or the other right now, so yes HO, you could just as easily be being set up, but you're not doing putting in any great effort of convincing us of that - simply jumping on the argument which Silencer proposed. In this game in particular, the people in the spotlight need to work all the harder to convince why we should vote for someone other than them.

[Tapper]

Here, but only for five minutes. Life is hectic. Normally I I'd agree with letting the likely symp off the hook, as Blend suggests, and instead monitor his connections to find his masters.
This time, though, he'd just use it to muddy the waters more.

So,

vote The Dude

I just hope posting from my phone doesn't affect the format of the message too much.

[Khellendros]

As a complete aside, has anyone else thought that there have been an unusual amount of forum outages recently? Makes me think it's the prelude to another forumpocalypse.

[Silencer]

Remove Vote

In the interests of not speed-lynching completely unnecessarily, what with Tapper putting us at, I believe, L-1.


I will likely be replacing this vote unless something really juicy comes out of the woodwork, but L-1 this early is just too much.

[Lizradusa]

11 Players still alive: Blend, Bonecaster, Dude, Hiddenone, Hinter, Khell, Lady Bliss, Silencer, Sixty, Tapper, Tattersail

6 votes to lynch, 6 votes to go to night.

1 Vote for Hiddenone ( Dude )
1 Vote for Tapper ( Tattersail )
4 Votes for Dude ( Hinter, Bonecaster, Hiddenone, Tapper )
2 Votes for Tattersail ( Sixty, Blend )

Players not voted: Khell, Lady Bliss, Silencer

[Silencer]

Khellendros, on 19 January 2013 - 02:27 PM, said:

Hello all, sorry for my absence yesterday, twas unavoidable. And I probably won't be around too much this weekend either.

The first thing I thought when I saw the Dude's post was: 'Modkill'. For a game like this, with the pretty clear objectives which it hopes to achieve, I was a bit disappointed, as I thought it crossed over what was 'acceptable.'

Having said that, stupidity could just as easily equate to bona fide finder as it could to scum for me. Anyone who did that kind of post obviously wasn't fully cognizant of the rule applications, whatever their own role might be. So for me it's not definitive proof that the Dude is scum, just that he's played badly.

I don't think anyone is claiming definitive proof - it's just vastly more likely that 1) a scum would take that kind of risk, and 2) they wouldn't be modkilled for it. Of course, my argument is that, actually, the Dude WAS fully cognizant of the rules, and was pushing his luck in order to try and control the thread like a boss. It's a brilliant play by scum. It's a horrific play by Town; and with no way to verify the claim as we normally would be able to, leaving the Dude alive is just begging for the WIFOM to come bite us in the ass later.

Quote

Going off how I've seen the Dude play before, he tends to coast the first half/two-thirds of the game, before exploding into action around endgame. So this is unusual play for him to say the least. Which makes me think something is forcing his hand, or at least he feels something is forcing his hand.

If we theorise that he is a symp, then the obvious thing seems to be either Tattersail or Blend (or both?! Well, not too likely). If he is a finder, perhaps something we don't know about has made him rush. So I want to wait to see what the Dude says. I wonder at this moment if it has anything to do with that 'parting word' which the Professor pulled people aside for in the scene.

I completely agree with waiting to see what he says. Though he has already been warned that his current situation is almost a rules breach - if he says much more he may get modkilled regardless of being a Finder or not. And I'm not *that* familiar with the Dude - though I do recall he plays a little like I do (which does, as you say, usually involve coasting for the first half then taking action). That being said, I'm not about to rule out someone with his rep as being deliberately different this game and breaking out a really ballsy strategy.

Quote

What makes me quite nervous is how quickly the likes of Hinter, Bonecaster, and HO jumped on the Dude train - that was startling. And Silencer, even though he is asking people to slow down, could easily himelf be saying that to make him seem more inno after starting the train in the first place. But those jump on votes make me very very nervous.

I won't vote anything yet, but I do want to ask - has anyone looked at the Gnaw NK? If not, I'm going to have a look through his posts, see if there's any sort of possible clue there.

Yeah, the pileup on this one has been startlingly swift. I guess people are a bit frustrated at the outcome of Day One (what with the board outage and all), but it's still overkill. Though I'm hurt that you'd think I would just *say* something like that to seem more inno. In all seriousness, the pileon is concerning, no doubt.

I haven't looked into the NK too hard - there's WIFOM enough on this thread already. But probing his interactions on day one is probably worthwhile, even if I can't really bring myself to comb back over that madness just yet. XD

[HiddenOne]

Khellendros, on 19 January 2013 - 02:43 PM, said:

HiddenOne, on 19 January 2013 - 02:31 PM, said:

I never have any problem voting for somebody who fake-reveals against me, Khell - and I don't think you would either.

Of course not, but the rest of us have no way of knowing that even if Dude is lynched. With the no CF, your voting could just as easily be interpreted as gratefully jumping on a speeding lynch train, and afterwards pronouncing to all and sundry how you're now CI because the Dude is so obviously scum.


Disclaimer: I am making no actual judgement one way or the other right now, so yes HO, you could just as easily be being set up, but you're not doing putting in any great effort of convincing us of that - simply jumping on the argument which Silencer proposed. In this game in particular, the people in the spotlight need to work all the harder to convince why we should vote for someone other than them.

I am aware of that first part, and I never pronounce myself CI - I think something like that would rely on the judgement of everyone else.

I can't help it that Silencer's points are valid. Any further speculation is useless on Dude's motivations and fuel WIFOM. Until this is resolved, my opinions are somewhat compromised in the public domain since I have been falsely named scum.