[pat5150]

Hey guys,

I haven't read any of the other threads for fear of spoilers. . .

Was supposed to get an early of this one, but it only showed up while I was in Mexico. So I couldn't give it a go until I got back. I'm about 200 pages into BLOOD AND BONE and I'm really not feeling it. I like the setting, but everything else is decidedly off. Especially the characterization and the dialogue...

Please tell me it gets better. I wasn't enamored with ORB, SCEPTRE, THRONE and this one appears to be more of the same...

Hope I'm wrong...

Patrick

[Spoilsport Stonny]

I don't know if u care what I think, but I thought it was ICE's best so far.

Are you really not going to finish it? But...but...you're Fantasy Pat...

[pat5150]

Oh, I'm going to finish it for sure. . .

I was just hoping that it would be a return to form, as good as STONEWIELDER turned out to be.

So far, it's not. . .

Patrick

[Hinter]

I know where you're coming from. I'ts taken me two weeks or so to get halfway through and usually I can't put a malazan book down.

[Khellendros]

I thought it was ICE's best written work.

That's not to say most interesting. But in terms of flow, sentence structure, build up of background atmosphere, and use of reveals and vagueness (all things which have caused issues in previous ICE novels) it was the best read. He has matured as a writer. Has he got a good story to tell, on the other hand? Well, yes and no.

I've been meaning to write my own review for the last few days, and will try and do that sometime this week.

[pat5150]

Well, so far it's doing absolutely nothing for me. Every single character is off at the moment. Whatever happened to the members of the Crimson Guard, both Avowed and Disavowed, who were all so interesting??

His best written work, you say? Well, if you don't have a good story to tell, the structure of the narrative means very little. Add to that, so far at least, the fact that the characterization is rather weak and the dialogue pretty much YA, and you don't necessarily have a winner on your hands...

Let's hope that things will look up before I reach the end. . . Still have 2/3 of the novel to read. . .

Patrick

[amphibian]

ICE stinks at intros and getting the reader to believe.

However, the rest of the book is pretty good. I did have some problems here and there, but about 2/3rds of the book is a fun read - sometimes getting into awesome territory.

Keep going, Pat.

[blackzoid]

This book made the Disavowed more interesting than they have ever been. RoTCG can't compare for their characterisation
Odd Pat, very odd.

[Spoilsport Stonny]

I agree. up until this point they seemed like a bunch of thugs following the biggest thug. We got to see their motivation, an inner dialogue, some sympathetic characters. And I thought the story was great. Simultaneous quests in the living jungle, while SW & tCG are occurring simultaneously. So much glory goes to the majesty of cities in fantasy work, but I was overcome by the change in setting; the jungle idea with all forces on the move was awesome and kept the action going and the suspense palpable, while providing several good philosophical dialogs, a love story, etc. etc....

I think the thing is, its a GOOD book, but the expectations run high around here. From a fantasy reader standpoint its probably OK stuff, but from a Malazan reader pov, its more answers, more questions and that Assail novel is looming ever closer.

[End of Disc One]

"YA" should be banned as a critique.

[Abyss]

Short answer to OP: Yes, it gets better.

[Asharak]

I think it does, though your criticism makes me wonder if you got a different book called "Blood and Bone" than the one I read.

Don't really see any weaker characterization here than in the previous Esslemont books. The Crimson guard feel way more like individuals here than in ROTCG IMHO,

even though most of the "A-Team" are busy over in "Stonewielder". I thought OST was rather strong despite its flaws though, so what do I know

This post has been edited by Asharak: 19 December 2012 - 08:56 PM

[polishgenius]

End of Disc One, on 19 December 2012 - 02:17 PM, said:

"YA" should be banned as a critique.

Pat fucking loves using it to put down things he doesn't like. Never mind that some of the best, most iconic and important speculative fiction both of our times and down the decades has been YA/kid's stuff, and that the implication that whether something is aimed at kids or not is a question of quality is pretty insulting to children.

I liked both the characters and the story from the start, so I guess I can't really help reassure there- in fact for me where it stuttered was the end, where one of the plot strands didn't really wrap up satisfactorily. Still very much enjoyed it overall though.

[pat5150]

Plodding on, folks. . .

At least you gave me hope!

And yes, at least for the first 250 pages or so, the characterization is subpar. I threw in the YA thingie because at times it feels as though the dialogue and the interactions between characters seem to come straight out of a FR book... Insofar as I have read, the Golans section are particularly weak in that regard. . .

Time will tell. . .

Patrick

This post has been edited by pat5150: 20 December 2012 - 05:23 AM

[Macros]

Jumping in with a reply, haven't read the whole thread, on my phone.

Imo, it doesn't get worse.
but it doesn't pick up all that much either. It stays at the same slow burn the whole way, for me it was readable but I was by no means running to pick it up at every oppourtunity.

there's a few good moments but overly I was very underwhelmed by it. On a dislike scale I put it en par with return of the guard.

I maintain that Ice was better on the short focused story of NoK and struggles on the larger stage.
I had little time for OST either if that helps put my opinion in perspective.

[amphibian]

polishgenius, on 20 December 2012 - 03:00 AM, said:

Pat fucking loves using it to put down things he doesn't like.

This is an easily testable assertion. Find a set of occasions when Pat has used YA in his critiques of books, then examine the context.

I ask you to do some, as I will.

[Gnaw]

pat5150, on 20 December 2012 - 05:23 AM, said:

Plodding on, folks. . .

At least you gave me hope!

And yes, at least for the first 250 pages or so, the characterization is subpar. I threw in the YA thingie because at times it feels as though the dialogue and the interactions between characters seem to come straight out of a FR book... Insofar as I have read, the Golans section are particularly weak in that regard. . .

Time will tell. . .

Patrick

Ugh. I have yet to start this one and you're not providing much incentive.

Try what I did for OST: repeat the mantra "ICE is writing in an alternate wuverse" every few minutes. Alternate with "the timeline is not important" occasionally.

[Traveller]

Same here. I've not even got this yet, and so far I've seen nothing that makes me want to. Being 'not bad' or 'better than his other books' isn't filling me with any desire to rush out and get it.

[pat5150]

Well, I just finished the book. . .

It does get a bit better, but not much. Saw it coming since, for me at least, Blood and Bone was a failure to launch from the start. But I'm even more underwhelmed now than I was when I reached the end of Orb, Sceptre, Throne...

Always knew who the Warleader was, so there was no punchline for me at the end. The resolution of Skinner storyline was so lackluster I wanted to throw the book across my living room.

A disappointment. . .

Patrick

[Silk]

Just goes to show that everyone reads things in different ways, .....personally I and as some have stated in thread that this has been one of his better books.

I think that at the end of the day its best for each to make their own minds up on the book given the totally mixed reactions in thread.