[Tulas Shorn]

A lot of thoughts spinning round in my head, so I'm going to freestyle before putting forth some quotes.

First of all, chi-blocking. This is the hot topic of the day. My impression, largely from Naruto, is that chi is a magical energy source and that blocking it would prevent the use of extraordinary abilities reliant on magical energy. However, I think that chi is intrinsic to non-equalists, which means that the power is not merely a guard imao. I'm more concerned with how removal of bending ability looks in the game since that is a major victory condition for the equalists.

Originally, I thought an equalist win may be eliminating all voting powers except their own. Reading back through, I agree with the assessment that my equating vote blocking with chi blocking was erroneous.

In my opinion: I think that vote blocking sounds more like incapacitation to me. Chi blocking also should be temporary by traditionalist anime standards, thus not the ability to remove bending abilities permanently and instead more akin to guarding.

[Fener]

Before I go to bed..

remove vote
vote liosan

I don't think a tulas lynch is gonna happen today, but lio works too IMO.

[Tulas Shorn]

My thoughts are still scattered, but now let me attempt to discuss my general impressions on day 2.

The big two obviously are Spite and Galain, both leading the way against their respective lynch targets: Galain and Liosan. In this breakdown, few seem to stand behind Spite and many stand behind Galain. The primary complaint against Spite is the adamancy with which he attacks Galain and Galain's case on Liosan.

I for one stand by Spite. I think that Spite makes a good point that Galain makes a lot of assumptions and rides these to the bitter end with more presence than well-thought-through arguments. He leads the thread and has people riding his coattails, some of which are most certainly equalist if not himself.

The reason I say this stems from my belief (which appears in line with a large part of the thread) that vote blocking sounds more like an equalist power than a good-guy power. It doesn't actually make that much sense as a good-guy power since blocking votes will be more statistically likely to hurt the good-guys than the comparatively smaller population of bad-guys.

Thus, I think Liosan and Karosis' confirmed vote block makes them more likely good-guys from the outset than bad guys. Moreover, Spite's logically assessment that if incapacitate equals vote blocking, then the incapacitation could not have been reflected back onto himself.

So let's say that Liosan is a baddy, proven all the more by people like myself and Spite "defending" him. That also defies logical reasoning in that no equalist will defend another equalist directly at the risk of being coupled with each other. So to be linked to Liosan by defending him bespeaks more of the possibility that we are good-guys not scum trying to save ourselves.

These are some of the holes in the Liosan case that bother me. My vote stays on Galain

[Tulas Shorn]

Galain, on 19 December 2012 - 09:08 PM, said:

Spite, on 19 December 2012 - 08:41 PM, said:

Galain, on 19 December 2012 - 07:16 PM, said:

<snip> Liosan, did you toss something incapacitating at somebody last night and now find it reflected back on you? That would be rather upsetting.Vote Liosan

Read the OP.

Quote

Order of Resolution for Night Actions: Incapacitate > Block/Reflect > Guard > Control > Heal > KillCertain special abilities have special rules that may supercede the order of resolution.

Read the fucking manual to get your facts straight before you start a wild chase.Incapacitate comes before reflect so if Lio is incapacitated, it could not have been by a reflect unless that reflect was also a special ability that superceded the normal order of resolution.Furthermore, you tie "Lio can incapacitate" (no proof apart from his rather pissy inquiry into resolution)" to "Lio is scum". That's jumping the gun a bit. You thereby assume that the incapacitating action (if it is vote blocking) is limited to scum only. Dangerous assumption, in and by itself, and always a bit scummy in a tmdi 10 game, where likely everyone has abilities and few will be limited to one side, apart perhaps from kills, the traditional scum ability. I also consider it rather strange that you are so certain that Lio incapacitated someone, when I haven't seen any definition of 'incapacitate'. Looks like you know more than I do. In fact, your post smacks a bit like someone really eager to reap the benefits of their own night action. All in all, to me it seems that you are pressing a lynch using either deliberately faulty logic and/or superior knowledge (a misrepresentation of the order of resolution of reflect & incapacitate, and superior knowledge of what constitutes 'incapacitate'), or logic that is tied to several assumptions and/or at the least a misunderstanding of action resolution (the leaps of faith being 1) incapacitate is what the vote block is, 2) Lio's target had a reflect that was also special, and 3) Lio is pissed because he is targeted by his own action). To me, that sounds sympish, especially considering how easily a faulty lynch can be laughed off later on by "oops, I misunderstood mechanics, lol".There are several scenarios here that are a better explanation (one of them being, Lio can reflect and is pissed off because he figured he might be immune). You didn't even consider that but vote straight away. To me, that is extremely aggressive and traditional symp behavior.Vote Galain.

Wow. More words there than all your posts combined.So, yeah, I'll back through it for you.PS:

Path-Shaper, on 13 December 2012 - 02:38 PM, said:

though everyone starts with at least one ability.Days will be 36 hours, Nights will be 6 hours (or resolution when all actions are in if it's prior to the 6 hours being up).The game will be frozen from December 21 to 26, and December 29 to late in the day of January 1.Order of Resolution for Night Actions: Incapacitate > Block/Reflect > Guard > Control > Heal > KillCertain special abilities have special rules that may supercede the order of resolution.Order of Resolution for successful Blocks/Reflects: Kill > Guard > Incapacitate > HealAbilities not listed above will not be blocked or reflected

So the fucking manual says that if Liosan tossed a Guard at somebody with a Reflect, the Reflect triggers before the Guard. If Liosan had tossed a Kill and it reflected, he would be dead because on successful Reflects, Kill has higher priority than Guard.I am not taking into account the "special abilities" yet because I don't know of any. EVERYONE has one ability though.Simply using standard abilities Liosan's guard could have been reflected back by a standard reflection ability. Now, as you yourself said Spite:

Quote

I have no clue about the show, but ability wise, vote blocking is pretty strong, and sounds a bit more severe than something a simple grunt (or average police officer) would be able to do, doesn't it?

If Liosan's Guard has a special that adds vote blocking and it was reflected by a standard ability, Liosan ends up Guarded and Vote Blocked. Again, Liosan seems to be freaking out not about the "what" of what happened, but the "how" of it. As in "How the fuck did I get vote blocked." I add into that the slightly weird vote on Ruse, which is weak but that others have also seen as weird, and concluded that Liosan is suspicious. Hence, the vote. Yes, I make assumptions. But without making assumptions, we have fucking little to go on. But maybe your passionate response is because you know things we don't know. Like maybe the identity of Liosan.

This is really the main post I wanted to quote. There are other suspicions on other people that need some more developing, but this quote epitomizes my vote on Galain. First of all, he seems to equate guarding with vote blocking, right? This is kind of odd given that he asked Lio if an incapacitate had been reflected onto himself. Quite a change in terminology. My theory here is that Galain is actually a vote blocker and knows that it is called "incapacitate." After being called out on the incapacitate/reflection incompatibility, he switches gears into relabeling the vote blocking as "guarding" in order to hold onto his theory that is damning Lio. Red lights are flashing at this point.

[Spite]

Osseric, on 20 December 2012 - 12:29 AM, said:

Spite, on 19 December 2012 - 09:30 PM, said:

Fener, on 19 December 2012 - 09:20 PM, said:

Not gonna lie, the severity of Spite's response to the pressure on Lio (which hasn't even translated to votes really) seems a bit dodgy.

Do you like a debate based on faulty premises? I don't. That was reason one. Reason 2 why I came on so strong was that Galain had everyone nodding along - trains have started for worse than that.

Yes but why are you so worried about Liosan? Why are you willing to irrevocably tie yourself to Liosan? You seem intelligent, you had to know that with your post you were throwing your eggs in the basket with Liosan. Why would you do that after 1 vote?

You may note that I have not attacked Tennes at all, nor Galain's re-quotation of the Ruse-Liosan interaction (which is what Tennes was interested in), nor where it ties into Ruse's alignment - and I mention Liosan as antsy too. That's a decent case.

I attack the bits where Galain is making far-fetched (imho) assumptions about abilities and gets the system wrong. That's basically bogus sleight of hand to add weight to a case.

I read it, thought "this is wrong", PMed P-S about the timing order of actions, got an answer that confirmed what I thought, and essentially put on thread what P-S told me about the mechanics, just a bit more long-winded. Mechanics-fu is a powerful craft in high tmdi, and few will slap you down for it if you get it wrong, then excuse yourself. To use it this much, and faultily, when you can check it, well, to me, it simply reeks.

[Anomandaris]

Reading up. Spite's defence is stupid if Its actually a defence.He could have destroyed the case before it even began by trying to dismantle the case and not attacking Galain. That means either Spite is stupid (admittedly more likely of the 2) or Galain/Spite have a lover connection or something with Galain having some protection(admittedly crazy). It is possible that the Galain is helping Spite to get in everyone's good side.He has protection so he is safe and Spite has publicity and can lead the thread.
It's very unlikely, but it just doesn't seem natural to defend someone like that and expect him not to get lynched.
UNLESS, Lio is a high ranking Equalist/Town.In which case it is possible that other members of the faction (whatever it is) know him (like in last Sengoku game) and are defending him.that even explains the reluctance of quiet a few people to vote him.Oh,and if he is high ranking he may be protected from a lynch, so he does not care about being lynched.But even if he doesn't get lynched we can most probably tell about him in the next day, a double LP is too much even for a leader.

I don't know if I'm making sense or not.this post was a good idea before I started it.
I will vote Lio if it is needed for the lynch but I now I wait for further discussion.

[Atrahal]

ok im back for a bit now. How long have we got till time out?

right now i think im still happy with my vote for Liosan, as people have mentioned his lynch has been commented enough that either way the CF turns out we will porbably have a solid idea where to look tomorrow.

[Atrahal]

so noone on in the mornings? :S why must you all have such unsocial posting times

[Atrahal]

checking back, i think we may have missed the lynch looks like it may be night now.

[Emurlahn]

How long do we have left?

[Emurlahn]

Last day in work today and it's fucking busy so i've had no time this morning so far!

[Atrahal]

well from the last ps update i think day timed out half an hour ago. So weve got no lynch....

[Path-Shaper]

I am here and just got to work. Give me a couple of minutes to get caught up at both places.


Venge

[Path-Shaper]

I am also here, so working on getting everything resolved.

- Blend

[Path-Shaper]

Day 2 timed out at 5:18am EST (4 hours 15 minutes ago)

14 Players still alive: Ampelas, Anomandaris, Atrahal, Emurlahn, Fener, Galain, Karosis, Kaschan, Liosan, Osseric, Silanah, Spite, Tennes, Tulas Shorn

8 votes to lynch, 7 votes to go to night.

6 Votes Liosan : Galain, Tennes, Atrahal, Osseric, Silanah, Fener
2 Votes Galain : Spite, Tulas Shorn

Players not voted: Ampelas, Anomandaris, Emurlahn, Karosis, Kaschan, Liosan

There was no lynch.

It is now Night. 1 hour 45 minutes remaining.

[Path-Shaper]

Still missing a NA, so will wait until I either receive that last NA, or night times out.

This is a plea - PLEASE SUBMIT PROVISIONALS!

[Emurlahn]

Provisionals people! It isn't hard to do!

[Path-Shaper]

Okay, officially starting resolution. Will have a scene posted in about 10-15 minutes after I have sent out all relevant PMs

[Path-Shaper]

In the wake of Officer Song’s tragic death, several members of Republic City and Team Avatar were furious. Many spoke of killing suspected Equalists without trial. However, as the day progressed, tempers cooled and plans and ideas were thought out. We could not kill these suspected Equalists without further proof, confirmation that these were, in fact, members of that nefarious organization. Though Officer Song’s memory lives on in all members of Republic City and Team Avatar’s hearts, it was decided that it would be more productive to spend the night gathering intelligence. Of course, there were a couple of small scuffles in the streets, someone was injured in each of the city’s factions, but there were no deaths during this night.

It is now Day 3. 36 hours remaining.

14 Players still alive: Ampelas, Anomandaris, Atrahal, Emurlahn, Fener, Galain, Karosis, Kaschan, Liosan, Osseric, Silanah, Spite, Tennes, Tulas Shorn

8 votes to lynch, 7 votes to go to night.

Players not voted: Ampelas, Anomandaris, Atrahal, Emurlahn, Fener, Galain, Karosis, Kaschan, Liosan, Osseric, Silanah, Spite, Tennes, Tulas Shorn

Day will run until it ends, Christmas freeze will begin at end of Day 3 (unless you guys speed lynch, then things might change) and I will resolve night when it unfreezes on December 27.

[Silanah]

I'm incapacitated. Damn