[Abyss]

Illuyankas, on 04 December 2012 - 12:34 PM, said:

Thomas is totally going to get the Sword of Love.

I was thinking Justine, altho Charity and of course Harry himself are contenders.
And Michael's irritating eldest son. or not.

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Mother Winter's walking stick is totally the Blackstaff.

That's..... BRILLIANT.

Cause, on 04 December 2012 - 01:12 PM, said:

...Crazy idea. Is Cowl and his assistant somehow Dresden and Molly from the future? I just recalled how Cowls magic was said to be tainted similar to how Dresdens was, he is not a practioner of black magic per say (that was highlighted), and it struck me how his relationship with his apprentice mirrors Dresden and Molly. Also while he has been responsible for a lot of questionable events, everything he has done has also led Dresden down a path to a greater mantle of responsibility and power. I know this one is a little out there though.

The theory has been around since DEAD BEAT and while i think it has potential, especially with the time travel angle raised in COLD DAYS.
That said, DeMorne seems way more likely for Cowl.

polishgenius, on 04 December 2012 - 03:16 PM, said:

Cause, on 04 December 2012 - 01:12 PM, said:

Lastly it finally occurred to me that Merlin and what we have seen of how he could manipulate time may not necessarily be out of the picture. He could be any character past present or future, or may just pop in for a visit if he has not yet.

He might, for instance, have settled down to run a bar.

I love that in theory but in execution i'm expecting an Outsider link for Mac.


Harry ending up as Blackstaff seems possible but almost obvious. Harry ending up as Merlin on the other hand is a glorious crazy theory.

The only way to save Molly could be to defeat Nemesis and the Outsiders once and for all and close the gates.

The Jade Court will finally reveal itself by dognapping Mouse.

Cat Sith will disguise himself as Mister.

[acesn8s]

Mac being the original Merlin is an excellent plot.

[Illuyankas]

Abyss, on 04 December 2012 - 04:16 PM, said:

Mister will disguise himself as Cat Sith disguised as Mister.

Fixed.

[amphibian]

Can an angel spin-off parasite create a body for itself out of magic and soul-material to become its own entity? This is some pretty interesting cosmological shit here.

[Illuyankas]

Cause, on 03 December 2012 - 10:24 AM, said:

Illuyankas, on 02 December 2012 - 10:50 PM, said:

I'm hoping being exposed to these mantle-induced impulses sorts that whole issue right the fuck out, personally.

Sorts it out in that they get together or that its never brought up again? I cant tell your slant on the issue.

Never brought up again, sorry for missing this earlier.

[Obdigore]

amphibian, on 04 December 2012 - 10:55 PM, said:

Can an angel spin-off parasite create a body for itself out of magic and soul-material to become its own entity? This is some pretty interesting cosmological shit here.

I'm more inclined to believe, if the Parasite in his head is still Lash, that Harry will drop her into the secondary dimensional pocket he creates for Bob, and the two of them will have some sort of weird romance.

[Cause]

I forgot all about it since everything else seemed so much more important but Lacuna (SP? the female little folk)eats celery, cheese and green tea. She was offended by Pizza and horrified that Harry fed it to the other little folk. Is this a personnel quirk or was she implying it will actually have terrible consequences for the the faeries? She said 'you dont know what your doing to them' or some similar thing and she wanted to duel them to stop.

What attention has Harry Gained by dying and coming back? Even Rashid is aware of the possible entities who might be interested, so who are they. Do we have enough info to guess? I also find it a bit odd that its such a big deal since he sort of cheated, he never really died. Not like say Kremmler I aim thinking who has died and resurrected several times through crazy necromantic magic.

Also as an aside, what ever happened to Harry's Bear bult buckle. He just stopped using it.

I also have been thinking it amazing how the story has evolved over the past twelve years. Some things are just the plot ramping up which required time but some I feel are Butcher becoming a better writer. Potions have been disappearing from the Dresden files for a while now. I think the potions were scrapped as they were a bit of a deus ex machina to solve any problem. Thats the first change off the top of my head I can think of a few others. Any of you feel the same>

[Illuyankas]

I enjoyed their use in Changes, that's the sort of thing I'd like to see them used for, helpful side tasks.

Also wide odds on Kemmler either being still around and a servant of, subsumed and part of, or actually Nemesis.

[Abyss]

Obdigore, on 05 December 2012 - 05:52 AM, said:

amphibian, on 04 December 2012 - 10:55 PM, said:

Can an angel spin-off parasite create a body for itself out of magic and soul-material to become its own entity? This is some pretty interesting cosmological shit here.

I'm more inclined to believe, if the Parasite in his head is still Lash, that Harry will drop her into the secondary dimensional pocket he creates for Bob, and the two of them will have some sort of weird romance.

It's all possible. With Harry having passed Bob back to Butters and the JLC he technically has an opening for a librarian spirit.

Cause, on 06 December 2012 - 09:48 AM, said:

I forgot all about it since everything else seemed so much more important but Lacuna (SP? the female little folk)eats celery, cheese and green tea. She was offended by Pizza and horrified that Harry fed it to the other little folk. Is this a personnel quirk or was she implying it will actually have terrible consequences for the the faeries? She said 'you dont know what your doing to them' or some similar thing and she wanted to duel them to stop.

I took that as health related ie: pizza is bad for you!, but now i wonder if the massive amounts of human evil processed chemicals might not be the concern.

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What attention has Harry Gained by dying and coming back? Even Rashid is aware of the possible entities who might be interested, so who are they. Do we have enough info to guess? I also find it a bit odd that its such a big deal since he sort of cheated, he never really died. Not like say Kremmler I aim thinking who has died and resurrected several times through crazy necromantic magic.

There's a 'holy shit he's alive' shock value to the whole thing, but he never really died... no, waitasec... he went to the afterlife and was sent back, so technically he did.... that IS interesting...

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Also as an aside, what ever happened to Harry's Bear bult buckle. He just stopped using it.

Wasn't that subsumed by the sheild rings and enchantments on the jacket... in the sense that if he got hit less he didn't need the boost? Plus there was the whole crach afterwards part.

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... Potions have been disappearing from the Dresden files for a while now. I think the potions were scrapped as they were a bit of a deus ex machina to solve any problem. Thats the first change off the top of my head I can think of a few others. Any of you feel the same>

They always took time to make, and the last few books he hasn't exacty had much opportunity to putter i the lab when a crisis hit.
I vaguely recall that potions didn't have much shelf life so he couldn't keep them on hand for trouble either, but not sure if i'm making that up in my headparts.

Illuyankas, on 06 December 2012 - 01:13 PM, said:

Also wide odds on Kemmler either being still around and a servant of, subsumed and part of, or actually Nemesis.

I'm figuring when we see Nazi-Bob again (and we will, this i am certain of) there will be vestiges of Kremmler.

[Chance]

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... Potions have been disappearing from the Dresden files for a while now. I think the potions were scrapped as they were a bit of a deus ex machina to solve any problem. Thats the first change off the top of my head I can think of a few others. Any of you feel the same>

They always took time to make, and the last few books he hasn't exacty had much opportunity to putter i the lab when a crisis hit.
I vaguely recall that potions didn't have much shelf life so he couldn't keep them on hand for trouble either, but not sure if i'm making that up in my headparts.

He used them in Changes to pretty good effect which was pretty much the last time he had the possibility to do so...so not gone just less emphasised.

Cause, on 06 December 2012 - 09:48 AM, said:

I forgot all about it since everything else seemed so much more important but Lacuna (SP? the female little folk)eats celery, cheese and green tea. She was offended by Pizza and horrified that Harry fed it to the other little folk. Is this a personnel quirk or was she implying it will actually have terrible consequences for the the faeries? She said 'you dont know what your doing to them' or some similar thing and she wanted to duel them to stop.

Seems to me that faeries doesn't care about nutrition so I'm guessing its about obligation. Each time he give them pizza for a small favor or just becuase he does every week they become more and more in debt to him...

But who knows...

This post has been edited by Chance: 06 December 2012 - 07:08 PM

[Coco with marshmallows]

Chance, on 06 December 2012 - 07:04 PM, said:

Seems to me that faeries doesn't care about nutrition so I'm guessing its about obligation. Each time he give them pizza for a small favor or just becuase he does every week they become more and more in debt to him...

But who knows...

But that was partially payment for housekeeping.

Mind you, given that he's been houseless for a few months but the pizza kept going, they probably DO owe him quite a lot.

As a wild speculation type deal - think Toot and compatriots are going to keep growing? Toot was fairly small initially, and even Harry has mentioned his continued growth.

Considering that Harry is now tied in properly with the Fae courts, could there be a Lord/retainer relationship that could feed into a power boost for Toot et al?

[Obdigore]

Cocoreturns, on 06 December 2012 - 10:56 PM, said:

Chance, on 06 December 2012 - 07:04 PM, said:

Seems to me that faeries doesn't care about nutrition so I'm guessing its about obligation. Each time he give them pizza for a small favor or just becuase he does every week they become more and more in debt to him...

But who knows...

But that was partially payment for housekeeping.

Mind you, given that he's been houseless for a few months but the pizza kept going, they probably DO owe him quite a lot.

As a wild speculation type deal - think Toot and compatriots are going to keep growing? Toot was fairly small initially, and even Harry has mentioned his continued growth.

Considering that Harry is now tied in properly with the Fae courts, could there be a Lord/retainer relationship that could feed into a power boost for Toot et al?

I think the more authority/praise Toot gets from his liege the more powerful he gets, so if Harry keeps giving him 'tasks' (only you can protect the car, Toot-Toot!), and telling him a job well done, I think Toot will continue to get more and more powerful. I imagine that his increase in size is in relation to his power increase. By 20 Toot is going to be 'normal' size and his wings will drop off.

[Cause]

Another one I forgot to bring up. Bob seems like a bit of a plothole to me now. We knew Mab was angry at him for a long time now which is why he has been hiding out in the mortal world in his skull for centuries. Before we thought he had just done something to upset her though which is why hiding out in the mortal world worked. So long as he never popped into Faerie and showed his face she would ignore him. Exile in a way was his punishment. Now however we learn that she is angry at Bob because he holds secret knowledge on how to kill an immortal. If that's why she is angry with him then letting him work with Mortal Wizards for centuries on improving their magical knowledge strikes me as the very thing she would want to avoid. Evil Bob under Kemmler I don't doubt would have been willing if not eager to share this piece of knowledge with his master even if current Bob seemed hesitant to tell Harry. I don't even see why Harry had to bargain with Bob out of anything other than friendship since Bob is bound to obey his master.

[Chance]

Cocoreturns, on 06 December 2012 - 10:56 PM, said:

But that was partially payment for housekeeping.

Mind you, given that he's been houseless for a few months but the pizza kept going, they probably DO owe him quite a lot.

As a wild speculation type deal - think Toot and compatriots are going to keep growing? Toot was fairly small initially, and even Harry has mentioned his continued growth.

Considering that Harry is now tied in properly with the Fae courts, could there be a Lord/retainer relationship that could feed into a power boost for Toot et al?

The housekeeping was set up by Lilly in Summer Knight as thanks nothing Dresden pays for...the weekly pizza is more or less a direct bribe to get the small folk in his favor build up obligation. Note that Dresden always also pays for specific services with additional pizza never allowing the small folk to pay of earlier debt.

I agree that Toot is going to grow as a fearies looks is most likly an expressions of the faes power and where it came from. Toot has a lot more power then he used to simply leading a large band of other small folk.

[acesn8s]

So, since Changes has it been acknowledged whether or not Harry actually died? Did he fulfill his Death Curse?

[Cause]

Chance, on 07 December 2012 - 12:51 PM, said:

Cocoreturns, on 06 December 2012 - 10:56 PM, said:

But that was partially payment for housekeeping.

Mind you, given that he's been houseless for a few months but the pizza kept going, they probably DO owe him quite a lot.

As a wild speculation type deal - think Toot and compatriots are going to keep growing? Toot was fairly small initially, and even Harry has mentioned his continued growth.

Considering that Harry is now tied in properly with the Fae courts, could there be a Lord/retainer relationship that could feed into a power boost for Toot et al?

The housekeeping was set up by Lilly in Summer Knight as thanks nothing Dresden pays for...the weekly pizza is more or less a direct bribe to get the small folk in his favor build up obligation. Note that Dresden always also pays for specific services with additional pizza never allowing the small folk to pay of earlier debt.

I agree that Toot is going to grow as a fearies looks is most likly an expressions of the faes power and where it came from. Toot has a lot more power then he used to simply leading a large band of other small folk.

I swear dresden owes them pizza once a week since he promised it to them in return for previous work. Its his obligation to them! That is why he is worried about the fact the the leahsidhe did it in his absence, because she performed the obligation on his behalf he now owes her. If she did it and he was not bound to do it he could say thanks but I never asked you to.

Also Toot growing has all but been confirmed to be an expression of his growing power under Harry's influence. Dresden himself speculates it.

[Abyss]

Obdigore, on 07 December 2012 - 04:56 AM, said:

Cocoreturns, on 06 December 2012 - 10:56 PM, said:

Chance, on 06 December 2012 - 07:04 PM, said:

Seems to me that faeries doesn't care about nutrition so I'm guessing its about obligation. Each time he give them pizza for a small favor or just becuase he does every week they become more and more in debt to him...

But who knows...

But that was partially payment for housekeeping....

I think the more authority/praise Toot gets from his liege the more powerful he gets,...

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Cause, on 07 December 2012 - 01:39 PM, said:

...The housekeeping was set up by Lilly in Summer Knight as thanks nothing Dresden pays for...the weekly pizza is more or less a direct bribe to get the small folk in his favor build up obligation. Note that Dresden always also pays for specific services with additional pizza never allowing the small folk to pay of earlier debt.

I agree that Toot is going to grow as a fearies looks is most likly an expressions of the faes power and where it came from. Toot has a lot more power then he used to simply leading a large band of other small folk.

I swear dresden owes them pizza once a week since he promised it to them in return for previous work. Its his obligation to them! That is why he is worried about the fact the the leahsidhe did it in his absence, because she performed the obligation on his behalf he now owes her. If she did it and he was not bound to do it he could say thanks but I never asked you to.

Also Toot growing has all but been confirmed to be an expression of his growing power under Harry's influence. Dresden himself speculates it.

Two things are being confused here...

The Housekeeping is not the Little Folk. Lily set that up as Cause mentioned and it was never done when anyone was around except possibly Mister or Mouse.

The Little Folk involvement started with Harry binding Toot and bribing him with pizza. When he needed more help from them for the SK finale, he bribed more of them. The real link came when Harry rescued a bunch of them from the White Court in WN... in a subsequent book, i think it was SMALL FAVOUR, a bunch of them started helping Toot help Harry and Harry kicked in the pizza as incentive, which turned into the link we see in CHANGES when Toot shows up with Winter colors.

Despite the Winter link via Harry, the Little Folk are still Wildfae... i'm figuring by bk 20 or so Toot will be replacing the Erl King.

acesn8s, on 07 December 2012 - 01:04 PM, said:

So, since Changes has it been acknowledged whether or not Harry actually died? Did he fulfill his Death Curse?

Good question.

[amphibian]

Butcher making Toot-Took a polevoi was a smart move. There's no definitive "This is a polevoi and this is what they do" literature out there. He can take this anywhere and we will loyally follow like members of the Za Lord Army.

I wish I could transfer Lacuna over to Andii because if anyone needs a guardian spirit in these books, it's her. Lady gets kidnapped every third book at this point.

[Abyss]

amphibian, on 07 December 2012 - 03:36 PM, said:

...I wish I could transfer Lacuna over to Andii because if anyone needs a guardian spirit in these books, it's her. Lady gets kidnapped every third book at this point.

When it gets to the point that the characters themselves are cracking jokes about it....

[amphibian]

Briar King, on 07 December 2012 - 06:11 PM, said:

What's a polevoi?

That's exactly my point.

There was a conversation that Sanya (the black Russian atheist Knight of the Cross) had with Toot Toot when they first met. Sanya called him a "domovoi" which is kind of a house fairy guard dog. Toot Toot indignantly declares himself a polevoi and Sanya laughs. They move on.

If you do some e-digging around (in English), you find that a polevoi is a sorta vague-ish woodland or field spirit. The Russian language stuff might have more, but I'm willing to bet that it's still pretty vague what exactly a polevoi is and what they do, what they pay attention to most or what they become.

I think it's a good example of Butcher being cagey enough to build some flex into Toot Toot, rather than declare him Fairy Type X, which immediately shackles him into certain things as a character. Or it could be that Butcher has something in mind that I didn't find in my 20 minutes of e-digging.