[acesn8s]

Abyss, on 03 December 2012 - 04:01 PM, said:

Maybe a secretary....

Like the Maggie Gyllenhaal kind? Harry is Winter now.

This post has been edited by acesn8s: 03 December 2012 - 07:16 PM

[Abyss]

acesn8s, on 03 December 2012 - 07:16 PM, said:

Abyss, on 03 December 2012 - 04:01 PM, said:

Maybe a secretary....

Like the Maggie Gyllenhaal kind? Harry is Winter now.

More like the Hugin and Munin kind from CHANGES, but hey, whatever floats your boat...

...ravenfucker....

[acesn8s]

Abyss, on 03 December 2012 - 07:39 PM, said:

acesn8s, on 03 December 2012 - 07:16 PM, said:

Abyss, on 03 December 2012 - 04:01 PM, said:

Maybe a secretary....

Like the Maggie Gyllenhaal kind? Harry is Winter now.

More like the Hugin and Munin kind from CHANGES, but hey, whatever floats your boat...

...ravenfucker....

I don't think he'll get them, but maybe one of Miss Gard's sisters? You know, just to make his life even more confusing. He's going to need all the powers of Demonreach if Lady Molly, Sarissa, Elaine, and Karrin all start fighting for his affections. Methinks Thomas might be the jealous one in the next few books.

[Use Of Weapons]

And what if Demonreach is the jealous type?

[Abyss]

Genus Loci are notoriously polygamous.

[Obdigore]

Why hasn't Abyss changed his name to Cat Sith yet? I feel disappointed in his lack of action. Offering to slice spines into coasters is a good turn of the banhammer phrase, too.

[worry]

My one iffy question is about Sharkface...he turns into 50 versions of himself to rip apart the iceberg...and then one confronts Harry (who specifically refers to him in narration as "a Sharkface" and not just "Sharkface"), who proceeds to blow his head off. So what happened to the other 49? Why did they disappear/fall back/whatever? And why doesn't he just kill Harry by using a full force of himselves? Did I just miss something about this?

[Abyss]

Obdigore, on 05 December 2012 - 05:05 AM, said:

Why hasn't Abyss changed his name to Cat Sith yet? I feel disappointed in his lack of action. Offering to slice spines into coasters is a good turn of the banhammer phrase, too.

SSSSsssssssspppiiiiiiiiiinnnnneeeeeezzzzzzzzzzzzzz...

[Morgoth]

So I finished the book through a happy week end, which mainly consisted of me sitting by the fireplace reading. Twas great. Having struggled through the incredibly uninspired, flat prose of the Mongoliad, I was grinning like an idiot from the first page of Cold Days.

I enjoyed it immensly, I guess would be the gist of it. I found the expansion of the scope of Dresdenverse very interesting, and find Harry's path following in Merlin's footsteps to be intriguing. Not to mention the action. By god, the action is awesome. And it never lets up. It's like watching the Expendables, just with 4 different main villains and a solid plot.

When that is said, there are aspects of the books that are starting to grate on me a little. I'm pretty sure the explenation for why magic doesn't work on water was repeated five times within the book. Soulfire also got several explenations. And he dwelled on the magic aspects of circles again and again. Not expansions on the previous explenations. No, almsot direct repetitions, and that's just for this one book. If I were to count for all 14 the number would be in the dozens. I understand that some things might be good to refresh between books, but I'm not a complete idiot and I've started to figure out the basic premises of his magic system after 14 books. As have most readers I imagine.

In addition, it seems to me that despite continous stumbling, humbling and general crash course lessons in his own ignorance, Harry has gained very little wisdom. He is still the same rigid, hot headed and impatient man he was at the start. Sure he's gained quite a bit of experience in dealing with situations but he approaches them much the same. Same with people. The final scene with Mab stood out to me in that regard. Harry has been talking quite a lot in Cold Days about how fairies are nothing like human, and that their minds function very differently from ours. They cannot understand mortals he thinks several times. Yet he insists on judging Mab with human standards. Why should she have felt sad seeing Maeve die? She isn't human! For all Dresden knows, the emotions he so brazenly demands of her might be impossible for her to produce. His tendency to judge everything based on his fairly rigid morals becomes a little tiresome. I understand it is his character, but with some wisdom he might have given it some reflection.

Anyways, I loved the book. Let there be no doubt in that regard.

[worry]

Hey, just be thankful that you didn't get another paragraph on how even though Harry respects women he still has a chivalrous streak he can't get rid of.

[amphibian]

worrywort, on 17 December 2012 - 10:20 PM, said:

Hey, just be thankful that you didn't get another paragraph on how even though Harry respects women he still has a chivalrous streak he can't get rid of.

Yeah, it was just a line or two this time when he debated punching Andi or not. LOL.

[Illuyankas]

Speaking of which, who knew Andi was such a fan of polka?

[Obdigore]

Illuyankas, on 17 December 2012 - 11:36 PM, said:

Speaking of which, who knew Andi was such a fan of polka?

Maybe butters is a furry?

[Aptorian]

Morgoth, on 17 December 2012 - 09:02 AM, said:

When that is said, there are aspects of the books that are starting to grate on me a little. I'm pretty sure the explenation for why magic doesn't work on water was repeated five times within the book. Soulfire also got several explanations. And he dwelled on the magic aspects of circles again and again. Not expansions on the previous explenations. No, almsot direct repetitions, and that's just for this one book. If I were to count for all 14 the number would be in the dozens. I understand that some things might be good to refresh between books, but I'm not a complete idiot and I've started to figure out the basic premises of his magic system after 14 books. As have most readers I imagine.

I think this is a by product of the way the series is told. It's slowly become more and more convoluted but I would claim that the first 6 maybe even 10 books in the series could have been read as standalone books. You can pick them up with out having read any of the other books in the series and you'll have a pretty good idea of what is going on and how magic works because Butcher throws in a paragraph about magic or monsters when ever it pops up for the first time in the book.

I suspect it is intentionally repetitiv and probably a request from the editor(s).

Morgoth, on 17 December 2012 - 09:02 AM, said:

In addition, it seems to me that despite continous stumbling, humbling and general crash course lessons in his own ignorance, Harry has gained very little wisdom. He is still the same rigid, hot headed and impatient man he was at the start. Sure he's gained quite a bit of experience in dealing with situations but he approaches them much the same. Same with people. The final scene with Mab stood out to me in that regard. Harry has been talking quite a lot in Cold Days about how fairies are nothing like human, and that their minds function very differently from ours. They cannot understand mortals he thinks several times. Yet he insists on judging Mab with human standards. Why should she have felt sad seeing Maeve die? She isn't human! For all Dresden knows, the emotions he so brazenly demands of her might be impossible for her to produce. His tendency to judge everything based on his fairly rigid morals becomes a little tiresome. I understand it is his character, but with some wisdom he might have given it some reflection.

Anyways, I loved the book. Let there be no doubt in that regard.

worrywort, on 17 December 2012 - 10:20 PM, said:

Hey, just be thankful that you didn't get another paragraph on how even though Harry respects women he still has a chivalrous streak he can't get rid of.

I found the inclusion of a discussion on gay rights between a fairy and Harry a lot more disconcerting. It was completely unnecessary and there was this slight under tone of Butcher/Dresden considering homosexuality amoral which, I don't care how old fashioned Dresden is, seems like a terrible position to hold when Dresden isn't Christian, Muslim or connected with any other kind of moral law. Quite the opposite really, what with him being a freaking warlock. Maybe Dresden is secretly a republican wizard.

It felt like Butcher wanted to show us how open minded Dresden is by having him speak out about a current topics in American politics but it came out less than spectacular.

[worry]

I agree 100% with that. Harry's position was basically "Even if it's wrong, that's none of my business, not my job, etc." which is pretty yellow-bellied of him (the character) and condescending at best from Butcher. Partly because Harry is, if not an atheist, then still not a worshiper or even much of a believer. And partly because that whole conversation seems shoehorned in, as you said. It wasn't quite as bad as "I don't care what they do, just don't shove it in my face (by existing at all in public)" but it wasn't far enough removed for my comfort. And totally unnecessary!

This post has been edited by worrywort: 18 December 2012 - 10:37 AM

[Cause]

Aptorius, on 18 December 2012 - 08:29 AM, said:

Morgoth, on 17 December 2012 - 09:02 AM, said:

When that is said, there are aspects of the books that are starting to grate on me a little. I'm pretty sure the explenation for why magic doesn't work on water was repeated five times within the book. Soulfire also got several explanations. And he dwelled on the magic aspects of circles again and again. Not expansions on the previous explenations. No, almsot direct repetitions, and that's just for this one book. If I were to count for all 14 the number would be in the dozens. I understand that some things might be good to refresh between books, but I'm not a complete idiot and I've started to figure out the basic premises of his magic system after 14 books. As have most readers I imagine.

I think this is a by product of the way the series is told. It's slowly become more and more convoluted but I would claim that the first 6 maybe even 10 books in the series could have been read as standalone books. You can pick them up with out having read any of the other books in the series and you'll have a pretty good idea of what is going on and how magic works because Butcher throws in a paragraph about magic or monsters when ever it pops up for the first time in the book.

I suspect it is intentionally repetitiv and probably a request from the editor(s).

Morgoth, on 17 December 2012 - 09:02 AM, said:

In addition, it seems to me that despite continous stumbling, humbling and general crash course lessons in his own ignorance, Harry has gained very little wisdom. He is still the same rigid, hot headed and impatient man he was at the start. Sure he's gained quite a bit of experience in dealing with situations but he approaches them much the same. Same with people. The final scene with Mab stood out to me in that regard. Harry has been talking quite a lot in Cold Days about how fairies are nothing like human, and that their minds function very differently from ours. They cannot understand mortals he thinks several times. Yet he insists on judging Mab with human standards. Why should she have felt sad seeing Maeve die? She isn't human! For all Dresden knows, the emotions he so brazenly demands of her might be impossible for her to produce. His tendency to judge everything based on his fairly rigid morals becomes a little tiresome. I understand it is his character, but with some wisdom he might have given it some reflection.

Anyways, I loved the book. Let there be no doubt in that regard.

worrywort, on 17 December 2012 - 10:20 PM, said:

Hey, just be thankful that you didn't get another paragraph on how even though Harry respects women he still has a chivalrous streak he can't get rid of.

I found the inclusion of a discussion on gay rights between a fairy and Harry a lot more disconcerting. It was completely unnecessary and there was this slight under tone of Butcher/Dresden considering homosexuality amoral which, I don't care how old fashioned Dresden is, seems like a terrible position to hold when Dresden isn't Christian, Muslim or connected with any other kind of moral law. Quite the opposite really, what with him being a freaking warlock. Maybe Dresden is secretly a republican wizard.

It felt like Butcher wanted to show us how open minded Dresden is by having him speak out about a current topics in American politics but it came out less than spectacular.

I agree. I think it came off worse than its intended. I think in the end we are simply supposed to understand that Dresden like many straight men is uncomfortable by homosexuality. Still Dresden all around great guy acknowledges that if it does not hurt anyone there is nothing wrong with it. He does nt think its immoral he just does not want any men hitting on him either.

[Use Of Weapons]

Cause, on 18 December 2012 - 10:43 AM, said:

I agree. I think it came off worse than its intended. I think in the end we are simply supposed to understand that Dresden like many straight men is uncomfortable by homosexuality. Still Dresden all around great guy acknowledges that if it does not hurt anyone there is nothing wrong with it. He does nt think its immoral he just does not want any men hitting on him either.

that's how I, as a gay man, read it. I raised an eyebrow (a fabulous eyebrow, natch), but it didn't strike me as out-of-character for Dresden. Many straight guys are uncomfortable around overtly gay guys. It doesn't make them homophobic, unless they _act_ on it.

[Abyss]

i'm drawing an utter blank - when/with whom did that exchange take place in the book?

[Aptorian]

It's when he summons Titania in the bird watchers park.

She asks him what his opinion are of the people who come there, gay men who meet in the groves to have sex.

Why does she even care? Shouldn't things like human sexual reproduction and mating rituals be unimportant to her? Maybe she's a young queen but I still found it to be a clumsy scene.

[Abyss]

oh THAT. I took it as Titania trying to connect to something mortal. The exchange really didn't stick with me, clearly.