[Battalion]

Suggesting someone is racist because they don't want James Bond to be cast as a black man is simply pathetic.
I'm sure people who have suffered genuine racism would be horrified to see the problem trivialised in that way.
James Bond is white.
Where is their racist motivation in saying that you would like the portrayal of a character you enjoy watching to be accurate? There isn't any.

[Illuyankas]

Perhaps if you explained how James Bond would be ruined forever if they chose to make him black?

[QuickTidal]

Macros, on 14 November 2012 - 09:31 PM, said:

If everyone in the studio says yes lets make superman Black and the man with the power says hell no he's staying white I would definitely call him a racist, he would be deliberately going against common opinion because he wants superman white.

That's...the strangest logic I've ever heard. Seriously, what the? Frankly dude, it's things like that which muddy the waters of what real racism is. Real racism is the neo nazi skinhead fucks who beat me up in highschool for being part Asian. a head honcho at a studio deciding to leave a character white who was invented as a white person is NOT a racist, he's a purist or traditonalist. There is a HUGE difference!

Battalion, on 14 November 2012 - 11:16 PM, said:

Suggesting someone is racist because they don't want James Bond to be cast as a black man is simply pathetic.
I'm sure people who have suffered genuine racism would be horrified to see the problem trivialised in that way.
James Bond is white.
Where is their racist motivation in saying that you would like the portrayal of a character you enjoy watching to be accurate? There isn't any.

Exactly! Which is a traditionalist stance, not a racist one.

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 14 November 2012 - 11:27 PM

[QuickTidal]

Illuyankas, on 14 November 2012 - 11:24 PM, said:

Perhaps if you explained how James Bond would be ruined forever if they chose to make him black?

I don't think anyone is saying that. I think the implication is that some folk want to be traditional about their characters.

The same reason I want Tonto to be played by a native person. I want authenticity of the character as they were created.

[worry]

James Bond is only white until he's not. Then he won't be. He is inherently not stationary in time or background. It matters who plays him about as much as who's hosting SNL this week.

Tonto is Native American because it's important he know the lay of the land and also act as a bridge between the Lone Ranger and his people. Johnny Depp isn't playing a white Tonto, he's playing Tonto in "red face" as far as I can tell. Elba wouldn't be playing Bond in "white face".

Also, Johnny Depp is a ridiculous person. That's an aside, but worth noting.

[QuickTidal]

worrywort, on 14 November 2012 - 11:51 PM, said:

James Bond is only white until he's not. Then he won't be. He is inherently not stationary in time or background. It matters who plays him about as much as who's hosting SNL this week.

Tonto is Native American because it's important he know the lay of the land and also act as a bridge between the Lone Ranger and his people. Johnny Depp isn't playing a white Tonto, he's playing Tonto in "red face" as far as I can tell. Elba wouldn't be playing Bond in "white face".

Also, Johnny Depp is a ridiculous person. That's an aside, but worth noting.

This is a very good point. At some point perhaps someone of a different skin colour will probably play Bond, but it will be up to society en masse to see that and accept that, and hopefully at some point down the line it will happen... I'd be for it, but not because I think a black person HAS to play him, but rather the actor they choose was worthy of the role regardless of skin colour or ethnicity.

though he MUST be British. That's all I require of Bond.

[worry]

I recognize that your argument is qualitatively different than that of some others who are more staunch about the race thing (who I think you've given too much benefit of the doubt, frankly), but I still think it's either a bit cynical, or you're maybe off mark about how much people care about James Bond being one specific thing (or maybe I am wrong, who knows?). I don't think it would have the huge impact you're talking about where it requires a societal norm threshold to be crossed before it would be accepted. People would be by and large fine with it IMO, and I think you're also discounting people who would be newly drawn to Bond. Like I said in my first post, it might even actually make me want to see a Bond picture more. Scratch that, it would, most definitely, make me want to see a Bond film if Idris Elba was in the role. And I doubt I'm alone.

[Macros]

Sorry QT, but if you're suggesting that a man in charge, is told by his entire studio that changing a characters skin colour is a great thing to do, and he denies it because he's a 'traditionalist' if he's not a racist then he's just a fucking idiot.
I'm not saying changes need to be made, I'm saying people who have problems with the changes being made need to have a look at themselves. They're made up people, its what they do and how they act is important, not the colour of their skin.
I don't buy entrenched character crap for a second.
maybe its because I'm not a big comic fan boi or something but the only beef with an actor choice should be their ability.
If it came down to Elba and Clive Owen for Bond Id pick Owen right now because I think he's fucking ace and would really nail the character. But if it was Elba against Tom Hardy Id pck Elba, hardy is too.. I'm not sure of the word (also a bit young at the minute) maybe apathetic is the word.

I don't know why I picked Tom Hardy as an example.

[Jade-Green Pig-Hog Swine-Beast]

Ok, I don't know about everyone else, but this was never about race or racism, to me -- there's a huge difference between 'Bond is a white man' and 'Bond should be a white man because I hate darkies'. I couldn't care less if Bond was created as a white, black, Asian, mixed-race or even an alien character; I'd just like his on-screen portrayal to be true to that character.

As it is, though, James Bond was written as a white man and, therefore, I don't feel that a black man fits the James Bond character. That's it, that's my opinion and, clearly, I'm in a minority in thinking that.

[worry]

How does it feel to be in the minority? Sounds to me like you're feeling misunderstood, feeling like people are casting their presumptions on you unfairly, and you have to just go that much further to get your voice heard. Well, you have my sympathies, even if the rest of the majority insists on making it awkward for you.

That said, back to the issue at hand: When was the last time a Bond movie correlated that strongly to the novels? Even the ones based on specific novels? In fact I just found a whole Wikipedia page dedicated to the differences between the novels and films: http://en.wikipedia....ovels_and_films If it's not about race, then why is it off limits for reinterpretation when so much else isn't?

[Jade-Green Pig-Hog Swine-Beast]

Of course, there have been so many changes to Bond over the years, what's another one going to make in the grand scheme of things? However, how many alterations can you make to a person or a character before they're not that person/character any more?

Changing Bond's ethnicity, in my opinion, removes him one step too far from the character he was originally supposed to be and that, to me, makes him a kind of not-James Bond.

Being in a minority is kind of ironic.

This post has been edited by Jade-Green Pig-Hog Swine-Beast: 15 November 2012 - 09:46 AM

[Jade-Green Pig-Hog Swine-Beast]

If we are going down this route, though, I think Djimon Hounsou should play Bond. That would be crazy.

[Macros]

Ethnicity is a crock of shit, if someone if born in England, raised in England and speaks with an English accent I'd consider them English. James Bond is a British agent from a slightly well to do background, with two dead parents.
To suggest he shouldn't be black/white/green/blue is ridiculous. He was white in the novel because wt the time of creation it was likely he would have been white (almost certain lets face it)

Superman is white, but lets face it, would a comic with a Black man saving aemerica and the world gave got a decent ublishing deal in 1920's? (I'm guessing at 20's btw) Id say chances were pretty slim.

I get that you're trying to say its not racism, you just see Bind as a well spoken English white man. We're saying there's absolutely no reason in the modern setting he couldn't be black, and all the "justifications" so far have been utter bollocks.

[Jade-Green Pig-Hog Swine-Beast]

What I don't understand is that both Bond and Superman were intended to be white characters, and both have been portrayed by different actors over the years and yet one could be black and the other can't. Please explain that logic.

EDIT: YOU just don't want superman to be black, the same as I just don't want James Bond to be black.

This post has been edited by Jade-Green Pig-Hog Swine-Beast: 15 November 2012 - 11:31 AM

[Macros]

I never said superman couldn't be black.
it was the "entrenched character" brigade that said he couldn't.
I said superman is white in the comics because when hr was created a Black superhero simply wasn't going to happen.

perhaps my wording was off.
I was (in my head) rebuffing the traditionalists, purists, whatever they want to call themselves, who argue that once a character has been around for x amount of years his look becomes entrenched in peoples mindsets.
i was trying to suggest its a look that was created in a time when white strong farmboy was the selling model and I don't think superman would have been a hit back in the day as a Black man, because well, people were still a bit racist back then (sweeping generalisations ahoy!)

To say that he cant be portrayed by an insert colour here person now because he's always been shown as white is ridiculous.
Him being white is not a key part of his make up. Him being a super strong fucking alien is the key part of his make up.

[pathos]

I think I should play James Bond... i did a great job of playing one of the hyenas in my school's version of the lion king.

[McLovin]

That only qualifies you for Blofeld.

[Coco with marshmallows]

gods not Owen, i can't stand that man.

Jason Isaacs would have been a GREAT bond i think.
can definitely do the whole charming / murderous thing that Bond needs (IMNSHO)

[pathos]

McLovin, on 15 November 2012 - 01:25 PM, said:

That only qualifies you for Blofeld.

I'll take it.

[QuickTidal]

I think we begin to shout past each other here.

So I'ma leave the thread at: I have no problem with Bond staying as he is, and would also have no problem with him being black (or any other colour) provided the actor they chose was British.