[polishgenius]

The 'it completely changes their persona' argument doesn't really work for Bond, because I'd suggest that the persona change from, for example, Brosnan to Craig is a far bigger one than from Craig to Elba - there's only a few things that Bonds have in common with one another. Every other example you've given is either based on a real person or a specific portrayal that is being emulated. That's not the case for movie Bond- he's essentially become the archetype of a certain kind of stereotypical Britishness and, nowadays, there's no reason why the embodiment of that archetype can't be black. Doctor Who is more of a comparison than any of the ones you've given.

[champ]

Lucy Liu playing John (Joan) Watson in Elementary, just doesn't work, anyone seen it?

If Bond has been wrote as a white guy, leave it as a white guy.

Look at it this way, if Malazan was made into a TV series and white guys were picked to play Kalam and QB, would we not be up in arms?

[polishgenius]

champ, on 14 November 2012 - 12:55 PM, said:

Lucy Liu playing John (Joan) Watson in Elementary, just doesn't work, anyone seen it?

That's because Watson being a woman inevitably adds a gender dimension to the relationship that changes their whole dynamic. Bond being a black fella these days just doesn't do anything of the sort.

[Abyss]

Aside from my point upthread that this whole 'Black Bond' thing is a misunderstanding, while we're at it, how about a Shaft remake where he's played by Ben Affleck.

[Jade-Green Pig-Hog Swine-Beast]

Wouldn't they have to re-write the theme song as well, for continuity?

[polishgenius]

Abyss, on 14 November 2012 - 02:43 PM, said:

Aside from my point upthread that this whole 'Black Bond' thing is a misunderstanding,

I still have no idea where you got that from. Barbara Broccoli is the producer in chief of Bond and specifically the person with whom the final decision on who plays Bond rests, and the producer in no respect of anything else in film ever. If she's meeting people about Bond, it's about the actual Bond.

Should be noted though that at no point did Harris say that Elba was put forward to actually play the role.

[Abyss]

It`s typical industryspeak.

And it's entirely possible he's being contacted about a role in a Bond movie where the character is a black secret-agent Bond equivalent.

But i remain certain he's not being scouted for the actual Bond role.

[Illuyankas]

There's nothing in Bond's background that states he is and must be irrevocably white, and the Andii comparisons are particularly retarded since a defining feature of the Andii is 'magically made black'. Bond isn't a fictional Caucausian secret agent, he's a fictional British secret agent.

[Macros]

The strawmanning of Luther king and the queen is completely ridiculous.
Martin Luther King was a black man
QE2 is a white English woman.

portraying them as other is foolishness as any portrayal of them will be in a fashion where they must clearly represent the people being portrayed.

Bond is a fictional character, some people I know hate crqig as bong because they still love connerys bond and craigs blonde hair is too far removed for them
If we're going to complain about true representations of a fictional character, lets complain about connery being scottsh, flemming had to adapt his character to reflect this portrayal, so he was wrong for the part.
BSG, Starbuck was a man, the re-imagining had her as a woman, OH NOES!!! did it hurt the story or character, not in the slightest, sackhoff was great Imo.

paint it anyway you like, there is simply no reason Bond couldn't be black in todays world, a somewhat posh Englishman who's a ruthless agent, why on earth couldn't he be Black.

open your minds a little

[Abyss]

Illuyankas, on 14 November 2012 - 04:55 PM, said:

... Bond isn't a fictional Caucausian secret agent, he's a fictional British secret agent.

Who happens to be white since page one of the first Fleming novel.

Put it this way, what if the next Batman flic featured Elba as Bruce Wayne.
Edgy! Challenging! ...maybe he can fight Superhombre over who gets to date Wonder Katana.

....actually i would watch all that....


...but the point is, this character has been around since the 20s and he's been white the whole time.
If the producer wants to start a new franchise with a black secret agent, sticking the 'Bond' name on him won't be the way they do it.

[Macros]

Also using the andii as a reference is silly.
ruin is an albino, cleary marked as different from his brethren. The only way having him black would work would be to have the rest of the tiste be white. Totally irrelevant arguement.

[Macros]

Hogwash Abyss, it was written in a different time, had Fleming been creating the character now there would be no reason he would have to be white.

you saying they can't have a black superman or any other character that's been knocking around for 60/70 years, why The hell not?

[polishgenius]

Macros, on 14 November 2012 - 05:27 PM, said:

you saying they can't have a black superman or any other character that's been knocking around for 60/70 years, why The hell not?

Well, in fairness, Superman has a specific corn-belt farmboy image that him being black wouldn't fit. Same goes for Batman, whose old-money billionaire backstory pretty much ensures he's got to be white.

However there is no problem with a black Nick Fury, for example. And there's a black Spider-man in the Ultimates universe now.

Quote

...but the point is, this character has been around since the 20s and he's been white the whole time.

Since the 50s, but either way, 'it's always been like this' holds no water whatsoever because there have been far more significant departures from the original than making him black.


And regardless of whether you think they shouldn't make Bond black, I'm not sure why you're so convinced they wouldn't. There doesn't seem to me to be any reason to find that less likely than the Broccolis working on something that isn't Bond.

This post has been edited by polishgenius: 14 November 2012 - 06:18 PM

[QuickTidal]

I see no reason for Bond not to be played by a black man, simply by virtue of the fact that they made M a woman for a time, Moneypenny is now a black woman, ect. These are fictional characters and I don't think skin colour enters into it with Bond as a character.

Now that said. Abyss makes a good point that in today's world you apparently can't go the other way (making a traditionally black character white). For example, Alex Cross (from the James Patterson books) is an American detective and was written (and portrayed in various movies) as a black man...but with his back story and his daily life there is no reason he couldn't be white in a future movie...but you won't ever see that happen because the uproar would be deafening if anyone tried.

So while I can see both sides of the argument, I will come down on the side of a Black Bond in future not bothering me one bit. Just like if a future Doctor on DOCTOR WHO were black (or a woman for that matter) would not bother me a bit.

[Illuyankas]

His race doesn't effect his character at all, and holy shit if it'll piss you off as much as I'm thinking it would I would sell my internal organs to fund the next movie with an all-minorities cast.

e: Damn it [Nameless poster] how dare you delete that post before I could reply!

This post has been edited by Illuyankas: 14 November 2012 - 06:31 PM

[Abyss]

Macros, on 14 November 2012 - 05:27 PM, said:

Hogwash Abyss, it was written in a different time, had Fleming been creating the character now there would be no reason he would have to be white.

Fleming could have made Bond whatever he wanted. What he did was make him white and white he has been since then.
Fleming was also a product of his time as much as Bond, and the same man 'now' wouldn't be working with the same experienced and influences.

Quote

you saying they can't have a black superman or any other character that's been knocking around for 60/70 years, why The hell not?

Anyone can do anything they want. DC has done alt universe stories, hell, they once made Barack Obama into Superman.
My point is that it won't work. You can slap a big red S on a Korean boy from a Seoul highrise and call him whatever you want but he's not going to 'Superman' in anything but name.
When it comes to Bond, the studio will shy away from that massive a break from the character.

polishgenius, on 14 November 2012 - 06:12 PM, said:

...in fairness, Superman has a specific corn-belt farmboy image that him being black wouldn't fit. Same goes for Batman, whose old-money billionaire backstory pretty much ensures he's got to be white.

And therein lies my point. A sufficiently entrenched character doesn't 'work' if you break that far from the image.
There are black farmers all over the US and there are non-white millionaires too, but when DC hit the resent button for the New52, i didn't see any race-bending. They made the Earth 2 Green Lantern gay. That was about it.

Quote

However there is no problem with a black Nick Fury, for example.

Nick Fury was massively under the radar in the general zeitgeist until they cast Samuel Jackson in the role. Comics fans - a subset of a subset of the moviegoing public - knew who he was and that was it.
If they had cast Jackson as Bruce Wayne it would have amounted to parody.

If anything this supports my pointr that a sufficiently established character won't work too far from what is established.
if they did cast Elba as Bond, and made it the most mindblowingly awesome spy action movie ever, and it made millions and billions, at the end people would stull say 'that was GREAT! but it wasn't bond'.

Quote

And there's a black Spider-man in the Ultimates universe now.

Yes but he isn't Peter Parker. They didn't make Peter Parker black, they made a whole other guy into Spidey. Black/latino btw..

Quote

...'it's always been like this' holds no water whatsoever because there have been far more significant departures from the original than making him black.

Departures in story and style, not in the fundamentals.


Let's be clear, i'm not against it, i'm not saying it's a bad thing, i'm saying the studio will never do it and the rumour is a misunderstanding.

[McLovin]

Indeed, why not?

Because non-white males are rarely given protagonist roles in serious big-budget films.

Which IMO is a damn good reason to do it.

[End of Disc One]

I remember when Puff Daddy (or whatever he calls himself) made an audition video to be the first black Bond. I saw comments that "black Bond is okay, American Bond is not." Because for some reason it's morally okay to discriminate based on country of origin. Anyway Idris Elba would satisfy those people. I could certainly see Stringer as Bond.

[Abyss]

Now that's an interesting point.... if he can be Black, can he be American? How about Ugandan?
Is a Black Ugandan spy named James Bond still James Bond?

What about if we give him a hook hand??? Still Bond now?

[Illuyankas]

They've said 'that was great, but it wasn't Bond' to literally every single actor in the role, even before Connery, no matter how successful they were. They were idiots, and should be ignored.

And what the fuck is that last post about, dude? Is there some negative situation I'm not thinking of that'll happen if Bond isn't dazzlingly white at all times? And if you don't think a Bond with a prosthetic, gadget-filled hand wouldn't be awesome, then you're even more wrong than you already were.