[QuickTidal]

Briar King, on 12 April 2019 - 05:14 PM, said:

Yep there he is!!!!!

Duuuuuuuude!

"No one's ever really gone..."

cue PALPATINE laugh.

That was 100% Ian McDiarmid.

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 12 April 2019 - 05:17 PM

[Traveller]

Holy fucknuts... rise of skywalker.

Was that the death star?!

[QuickTidal]

Traveller, on 12 April 2019 - 05:18 PM, said:

Holy fucknuts... rise of skywalker.

Was that the death star?!

Yep, and at Celebration after the teaser ran McDiarmid himself (Sidious/Palpatine) walked out onto the stage (to an absolute ROAR of the crowd), and he smiled and said "roll it again" in Sidious voice.

[polishgenius]

I hate the title, especially if it turns out that Rey is said Skywalker. Unless it's by adoption that would be fine. Or they mean Kylo.

Also hopefully, the Death Star is just the ruin of a Death Star rather than another new functioning one. Similarly it'd be cool if Palpatine comes back a force ghost, but if he proves to be the real driving force behind the New Order- and I realise Rhian Johnson took out the real one rather unexpectedly but still- that'll be dry.


Other than that it looks good but, expectedly but slightly worryingly, more like TFA than TLJ.

[QuickTidal]

polishgenius, on 12 April 2019 - 05:32 PM, said:

I hate the title, especially if it turns out that Rey is said Skywalker.

I see no real reason to believe it's about anyone by Rey. This is JJ delivering on his original idea, and the very thing my wife turned to me after TFA and said "So she's a Skywalker right?"

And I've always been fond of ReySky anyways, so this makes me excited.

polishgenius, on 12 April 2019 - 05:32 PM, said:

Also hopefully, the Death Star is just the ruin of a Death Star rather than another new functioning one.

I think it's totally ruin....though this means Endor Prime maybe is where the are? Sounds like the macguffin of the film follows something from the long past, and possibly something that Sinuous had in the Death Star?

polishgenius, on 12 April 2019 - 05:32 PM, said:

Similarly it'd be cool if Palpatine comes back a force ghost,

Sith's/dark siders can't do force ghost.

This will likely tie into something from canon material called Operation Cinder, which Sidious set up before he fell in ROTJ in an attempt to burn the galaxy down in his wake...Jakku is one of the planets that had one of Palpatine's secret labs...cloning is most likely? Sidious also knew about the World Between Worlds introduced on REBELS, so possibly time travel stuff too?

polishgenius, on 12 April 2019 - 05:32 PM, said:

but if he proves to be the real driving force behind the New Order

I think that's the intent actually. The title eludes to that notion as well. The whole "end of the saga"...Whether that means Snoke was working for Sidious/SiduousClone the whole time, reminds to be seen. But I think it's important to note that McDiarmid clearly is IN the film.

polishgenius, on 12 April 2019 - 05:32 PM, said:

Other than that it looks good but, expectedly but slightly worryingly, more like TFA than TLJ.

And that's the bit that excites me since I loved TFA and loathed TLJ.



Different strokes for different folks.

I've always said that a trailer for IX would decide if I'm still in or not...and this did it. I'm in. This looks great!

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 12 April 2019 - 05:45 PM

[polishgenius]

QuickTidal, on 12 April 2019 - 05:39 PM, said:

And that's the bit that excites me since I loved TFA and loathed TLJ.



Different strokes for different folks.

Oh yeah I totally knew you'd be wrong be crazy wrong have a different opinion here.

Quote

Sith's/dark siders can't do force ghost.

Tbh I'd rather they retcon this (was this actually established in the current main universe btw? Was it mentioned in the OT or just guessed at?) than bring Palpatine proper back. I just don't like the idea, I didn't like it in the EU when he kept coming back either.

Quote

I see no real reason to believe it's about anyone by Rey. This is JJ delivering on his original idea, and the very thing my wife turned to me after TFA and said "So she's a Skywalker right?"

Tbh, regardless of what you think of Rhian Johnson's decisions in TLJ regarding the long term plots (and I totally understand why people think some of them are bad, especially killing Snoke with no revelation of who he is or anything), I feel like, having cast his story out into the world and seeing TLJ taking it that way (which I liked, coz I'm not a huge fan of bloodline heroism anyway and while I don't hate most stories with it in I can always get behind a subversion), then straining to bring it back to her being a Skywalker is just unimaginative and probably poor storytelling.

I hope it's a fakeout and it's referring to Ben.

[QuickTidal]

polishgenius, on 12 April 2019 - 06:07 PM, said:

, then straining to bring it back to her being a Skywalker is just unimaginative and probably poor storytelling.

I hope it's a fakeout and it's referring to Ben.

But the ONLY source of info on who she was being nobody is Mr. Unreliable narrator Kylo in that moment in TLJ. Literally everything leading up to that in TFA lends itself to her being a Skywalker. So for me this is just JJ bringing home what he always intended. It's not unimaginative in the slightest when HE's the one who created the character in the first place and had intentions for her... so he's slightly retconning a scene in the follow-up guys film where the villain tells the heroine she's no one.

There is way more in the ST trilogy that eludes to her being a Skywalker than the one scene in TLJ where it's claimed she's no one.

[Abyss]

QuickTidal, on 12 April 2019 - 05:30 PM, said:

Traveller, on 12 April 2019 - 05:18 PM, said:

Holy fucknuts... rise of skywalker.

Was that the death star?!

Yep, and at Celebration after the teaser ran McDiarmid himself (Sidious/Palpatine) walked out onto the stage (to an absolute ROAR of the crowd), and he smiled and said "roll it again" in Sidious voice.

Damn.


But he should have then said 'Freak them out. All of them.'

[polishgenius]

QuickTidal, on 12 April 2019 - 06:41 PM, said:

It's not unimaginative in the slightest when HE's the one who created the character in the first place and had intentions for her...

I feel like it is. Sure, Johnson messed those plans (if you take it at face value), but if his only response to that is to go well ACTUALLY she is...


Also I don't think there are any particularly strong signals in TFA that she's Luke's daughter, specifically. Someone's daughter that's important, yeah most likely, but to settle definitively on Luke you have to factor in the meta knowledge that this is a Skywalker family saga while dismissing the notion that the Skywalker in this particular trilogy is Ben.

And yeah, there's no definitive proof that Kylo was telling the truth either, but it's one of the messages of that film in general, regardless of if Kylo lies, that you don't have to be special to be special. Plus her cave scene, while not confirmed to be a 'real' vision rather than a reflection of her fears, obviously mirrors the ESB scene which, while obviously not 100% accurate hinted at truth about Vader.

[Traveller]

Just before the trailer, JJ fielded a question about any new/previously unseen force powers appearing - the result was very much like a yes.

Don't forget that even though the Sith aren't supposed to have force ghosts, one Sith managed to preserve his soul in a mask in the Seoul Vader series, and actively influence his surroundings, even if he wasn't technically a ghost. There is also the questionable but possible use of the World between worlds.

I still think there will be an intent to link this film back to the start, to Ep 1 - and seeing the trailer just reinforced this. Death Star ruins? Echo of Palpatine? Something there is going to link the original creation of Anakin by force manipulation to Rey/Kylo. I don't immediately see Rey as a Skywalker just because of the title, but she has the Ep4 Luke look, the saber, and seems to fit the Skywalker image perfectly - but it might still actually be referring to someone else.

My dad is visiting, I was getting the kids food sorted, but I had the panel live streaming from Twitter on. Was great watching it as they did, and seeing Ian at the end was just perfect.

I liked most of the Last Jedi, but I'll always prefer TFAs, and this looked more like that which I'm really happy about.

This post has been edited by Traveller: 12 April 2019 - 09:39 PM

[Primateus]

polishgenius, on 12 April 2019 - 07:27 PM, said:

QuickTidal, on 12 April 2019 - 06:41 PM, said:

It's not unimaginative in the slightest when HE's the one who created the character in the first place and had intentions for her...

I feel like it is. Sure, Johnson messed those plans (if you take it at face value), but if his only response to that is to go well ACTUALLY she is...


Also I don't think there are any particularly strong signals in TFA that she's Luke's daughter, specifically. Someone's daughter that's important, yeah most likely, but to settle definitively on Luke you have to factor in the meta knowledge that this is a Skywalker family saga while dismissing the notion that the Skywalker in this particular trilogy is Ben.

And yeah, there's no definitive proof that Kylo was telling the truth either, but it's one of the messages of that film in general, regardless of if Kylo lies, that you don't have to be special to be special. Plus her cave scene, while not confirmed to be a 'real' vision rather than a reflection of her fears, obviously mirrors the ESB scene which, while obviously not 100% accurate hinted at truth about Vader.

Maybe, y'know, Kylo is just like Jon Snow? He knows nothing.

Maybe he doesn't actually know who Rey's parents were or weren't and he was just being a dick because he's a dick?

[QuickTidal]

Briar King, on 12 April 2019 - 10:48 PM, said:

Wonder if that Rey ship jump is at the start or part of the final showdown?

You know...I think that scene is them working together. Like why run alongside it to jump on it like that if attackingÉ That loooked liike training together to me...and the shot of Kylo and Stormtroopers atacking in the woods...they are attacking the Knights of Ren. I think Kylo switches sides earlier on and the big bad is Palpatine...and Kylo and Rey train together.

[Silencer]

Primateus, on 12 April 2019 - 10:52 PM, said:

polishgenius, on 12 April 2019 - 07:27 PM, said:

QuickTidal, on 12 April 2019 - 06:41 PM, said:

It's not unimaginative in the slightest when HE's the one who created the character in the first place and had intentions for her...

I feel like it is. Sure, Johnson messed those plans (if you take it at face value), but if his only response to that is to go well ACTUALLY she is...


Also I don't think there are any particularly strong signals in TFA that she's Luke's daughter, specifically. Someone's daughter that's important, yeah most likely, but to settle definitively on Luke you have to factor in the meta knowledge that this is a Skywalker family saga while dismissing the notion that the Skywalker in this particular trilogy is Ben.

And yeah, there's no definitive proof that Kylo was telling the truth either, but it's one of the messages of that film in general, regardless of if Kylo lies, that you don't have to be special to be special. Plus her cave scene, while not confirmed to be a 'real' vision rather than a reflection of her fears, obviously mirrors the ESB scene which, while obviously not 100% accurate hinted at truth about Vader.

Maybe, y'know, Kylo is just like Jon Snow? He knows nothing.

Maybe he doesn't actually know who Rey's parents were or weren't and he was just being a dick because he's a dick?

And maybe making her yet ANOTHER Skywalker is a dumb idea and it would be quite in character for a petty and evil character to tell the truth if it serves their purpose (and it very much would have there) and that, even if he didn't know it and was just playing on her fears that doesn't have to mean he was wrong, either.

I don't see why anyone would want her to be a Skywalker. It's dumb and it's lazy and we've seen it all before. I get it if you're irrationally invested in that family but hey, the world doesn't have to revolve around Skywalkers as the protagonists.

Not watching the trailers, coz I know I'm seeing this film regardless and will probably like it a lot, so expect me to go back into exile seeing as I wouldn't want my like for TLJ oppressing anyone's right to hate that film and force it to be the 'mainstream' opinion, but just wanted to point out that TLJ was a perfect portrayal of Luke's character as we know it /from the films/ and the "pointless" plots were well executed commentary on seeing the bigger picture and that heroic attempts don't always succeed. All of which was also seen Empire, by the way, just with a little less futility (you know, what with Luke losing an arm to Vader, Han in carbonite being shipped to Jabba, and the rebels barely fleeing from the Empire and all). Second film is always driven by failure and seemingly pointless plots, and it was really well handled in TLJ.

[Slow Ben]

TLJ was so bad i cant even bring myself to be semi-excited for this.

[Traveller]

QuickTidal, on 13 April 2019 - 01:41 AM, said:

Briar King, on 12 April 2019 - 10:48 PM, said:

Wonder if that Rey ship jump is at the start or part of the final showdown?

You know...I think that scene is them working together. Like why run alongside it to jump on it like that if attackingÉ That loooked liike training together to me...and the shot of Kylo and Stormtroopers atacking in the woods...they are attacking the Knights of Ren. I think Kylo switches sides earlier on and the big bad is Palpatine...and Kylo and Rey train together.

This makes the earlier FA stuff make more sense - 'I will finish what you started..' might be referring to Vader turning on Palpatine.

The helmet being reconstructed might be him acting as supreme leader while hunting down some remnant of Sheev.

I would really, really like some good solid connections to the prequels, and Ian McDiarmid.. just awesome.

It's going to be a theory loaded 8 months that's for sure.

Edit... so, Skywalker might be used as a title more than just a character.. instead of Jedi, maybe the name of the new generation of force users?

This post has been edited by Traveller: 13 April 2019 - 12:06 PM

[polishgenius]

There's a leak of the trailer and a few minutes of The Mandalorian floating around and oh my it looks fricking great.

[Traveller]

It really does. A lot of talent involved.. looks like live action Clone Wars!

[Traveller]

I don't like the clone route personally. I haven't read anything that used that in a storyline anyway, but the idea seems a bit dumb.

I mean, the Clone Wars showed us how individual the clones of Jango were - a clone of the Emperor would surely have been Palpatine before he learned anything, and with a different personality?

If they 'bring him back' in any way other than flashbacks, it should be like the Mask of Momin from the Charles Soule Vader series. (The mask is an artifact in the Jedi library, that contains a soul fragment of the Sith Momin. Palpatine gets hold of all these artifacts, and experiments with them, and gives the mask to Vader. Momin helps Vader to construct his castle on Mustafar by possessing anyone that wears it.)

So there is no force ghost as such, but Momin is able to manipulate and act long after his death by possessing people that wear the mask.

It just seems to be a better more accurate way of preserving Palapatines consciousness if he'd experimented with this stuff, rather than just a physical clone which would essentially be a different person.

This post has been edited by Traveller: 15 April 2019 - 06:49 AM

[Garak]

Dark Empire was the old story that had a clone of Palpatine coming back. It was him because his spirit would posses the clone body - which would then degenerate at an accelerated rate due to the immense power and evil of the spirit. The Sith usually had spirits or ghosts lingering around, since they refused to let themselves become one with the Force.

[Cause]

Traveller, on 15 April 2019 - 06:48 AM, said:

I don't like the clone route personally. I haven't read anything that used that in a storyline anyway, but the idea seems a bit dumb.

I mean, the Clone Wars showed us how individual the clones of Jango were - a clone of the Emperor would surely have been Palpatine before he learned anything, and with a different personality?

If they 'bring him back' in any way other than flashbacks, it should be like the Mask of Momin from the Charles Soule Vader series. (The mask is an artifact in the Jedi library, that contains a soul fragment of the Sith Momin. Palpatine gets hold of all these artifacts, and experiments with them, and gives the mask to Vader. Momin helps Vader to construct his castle on Mustafar by possessing anyone that wears it.)

So there is no force ghost as such, but Momin is able to manipulate and act long after his death by possessing people that wear the mask.

It just seems to be a better more accurate way of preserving Palapatines consciousness if he'd experimented with this stuff, rather than just a physical clone which would essentially be a different person.

Palpatines clones are biologically identical to him, he cant become a true force ghost but he can transfer his spirit into clones bodies. They become him.