[QuickTidal]

Posted on io9 by Rob in response to an email. Sums it up rather nicely.

1) No one in any of the six Star Wars movies has ever needed a crossguard. Seriously. Not a single lightsaber as used one, and of all the hands that have been cut off, a guard would not have prevented any of them. Maybe it's just the accepted style of lightsaber dueling, maybe it's a technique that lightsaber wielders learn early so they don't have all their fingers cut off. Either way, if no one ever needs them, it implies that this dude doesn't either.

So what are these little light-nubs, then? I think it could well be a small offensive weapon — a small pointy bit with which to stick the enemy just in case. It's exactly like an axe may have a sharp tip up top, on the very off chance you need to stab instead of chop. If you're wielding a lightsaber and need to punch somebody — which definitely happens — and you have what is essentially a small light-dagger in your hands, you're better off than someone with out it.

Or it could just be decorative. Maybe this dude likes 'em because he thinks it looks badass. That's a perfectly valid reason to me.

2) It looks badass. I don't particularly care what the reason is. Guard, not a guard, whatever. It looks awesome and I don't need to get bogged down in the actual "science" of lightsabers to think so. You do realize that Luke's lightsaber in Return of the Jedi basically cut nothing, right? It's wasn't a bade on Jabba's Sailbarge, it was a baseball bat. No one just sliced in the slightest. It was like Luke had it on "bludgeon" or something. Compared to that, this "handguard" is nothing.

Look, if you want to freak out about the lightsaber, by all means. I'm sure there's shit I'm going to freak out about when I see the movie. But I've seen The Phantom Menace and Attack of the Clones, and I know what actual Star Wars problems are. This lightsaber is not one of them.

[worry]

Are you all sure that he can't avoid chopping his own hand off by just using magic?

[Grief]

QuickTidal, on 03 December 2014 - 03:47 PM, said:

Grief, on 03 December 2014 - 03:40 PM, said:

QuickTidal, on 03 December 2014 - 02:25 PM, said:

Silencer, on 03 December 2014 - 12:31 AM, said:

Nope, we already dealt with that idea up thread - it doesn't hold water because the side emitters are still required to contain focusing crystals and the like, so once they get cut off, no more saber. *shrug*

Nonsense. The three focusing crystals don't have to be outside the hilt in the wings. They can all be in the same area (in a cluster) since the beam passes through them, there is no reason they all can't be located in the main hilt. The only difference would be that instead of one channel, there are three. What is not to understand?

Why you would make it perpendicular to the blade instead of being angled away from your hand, for starters.

For the same reason that normal crossguarded swords don't usually have angled guards. The defense is lessened when it's at an angle that the opponent can sweep by to still hit your grip hand. With the 90 degree cross-guard that chance is lessened significantly.

In that case (and if we accept the argument that the force lets him avoid chopping himself), then I still don't think perpedincular is great, why not go for something that gives more protection if it's not going to hit you anyway?

I'm not a big fan of the comparisons with crossguards, because it just seems to be missing the same thing the designers missed, which is that technology that makes sense for a sword doesn't necessarily make sense for a lightsaber because they aren't the same thing. One is made of lasers; this fact should always be remembered because it's great.

This thread also has a dissapointing lack of lightsaber smiley's

[Grief]

QuickTidal, on 03 December 2014 - 06:17 PM, said:

2) It looks badass. I don't particularly care what the reason is. Guard, not a guard, whatever. It looks awesome and I don't need to get bogged down in the actual "science" of lightsabers to think so. You do realize that Luke's lightsaber in Return of the Jedi basically cut nothing, right? It's wasn't a bade on Jabba's Sailbarge, it was a baseball bat. No one just sliced in the slightest. It was like Luke had it on "bludgeon" or something. Compared to that, this "handguard" is nothing.

Look, if you want to freak out about the lightsaber, by all means. I'm sure there's shit I'm going to freak out about when I see the movie. But I've seen The Phantom Menace and Attack of the Clones, and I know what actual Star Wars problems are. This lightsaber is not one of them.[/i]

Meh, disagree. It looks like they were trying hard to come up with a "cool" lightsaber design because Episode 1 had one, and what they came up with was "it's a laser sword right...swords have crossguards, let's give it one of those".

The last part is just a very irritating form of argument. Saying that people shouldn't say they think something is dumb, because the other films have even dumber parts...so what? Great, it's not as bad as Episode 1-3's stupid parts. What a fantastic benchmark, that certainly clears up any misgivings anyone could have.

His point about it being used in combat is potentially more interesting, but I feel like if you're in a situation where you're punching someone with a lightsaber, you generally are going to be able to kill them regardless, I can't see the additions being useful very often, in an already uncommon scenario, we see people get kicked more often than punched.

The point isn't that it might not have uses, it's that they're outweighed by the impracticalities.

Which really, if it wasn't the case...why haven't Jedi been using crossguards more commonly? If things like lightsabers sliding are a problem, then it's a pretty obvious addition.

[Nicodimas]

worry, on 03 December 2014 - 09:06 PM, said:

Are you all sure that he can't avoid chopping his own hand off by just using magic?

This is my BIGGEST problem with the saber.

Why would a Sith be using his power..for self protection??

It should be all used for offensive capability..

Why would a Sith need a guarded weapon.../facepalm

[worry]

Maybe it's magic, maybe it's the magic of believing in himself. A lesson we could all learn.

[Illuyankas]

There will come a day when someone designs a lightsaber that could deal with a flamethrower. But it is not this day.

[Nicodimas]

A cool sith lightsaber would be one in Ultraviolet, Paryl , Chi etc. Normal humans couldn't, but the sith could see.

This post has been edited by Nicodimas: 04 December 2014 - 12:58 AM

[Illuyankas]

Since they also hum, does that make Daredevil a Sith? Darth Devil!?

[Tsundoku]

http://www.fastcodes...=zergnet_333634

As an aside, it looks like our possible Sith walks pretty normally, only going to a crouch when he activates the Lightclaymore.

[Grief]

Sombra, on 04 December 2014 - 10:06 AM, said:

http://www.fastcodes...=zergnet_333634

As an aside, it looks like our possible Sith walks pretty normally, only going to a crouch when he activates the Lightclaymore.

Of course, he'll look a bit silly if it turns out his speculation is wrong given his claims about everything the lightsaber tells us about the plot. Unless that stuff has been mentioned somewhere that I've missed it?

I'm not against lightsabers being used as visual cues etc, like I mentioned earlier I quite like the ragged edges of the saber. But the crossguard only really useful as a visual cue if it also makes sense, because if you see something (probably quite often, in this case) on screen and realise it's purely a visual cue and actually is impractical, it can break the suspension of disbelief, imo (unlike, for example, black robes/red saber, which are visual cues, but at the same time, are just as practical as any other colours, unless you want to be really picky about heat absorption ). I'm also not sure why he thinks that metals that can't be harmed by a lightsaber would require some huge chemistry lessons. Sith has metal crossguard -> someone tries to chop it and fails -> Sith laughs in their face, shouts "Unobtanium bitch" and uses their surprise to his advantage. Or if he's building the saber, just a quick montage of him finding a metal his basic saber can't chop and making it into a crossguard. Or about a million other things.


I don't think he really justifies the crossguard very well. Sith who knows he's relatively clumsy/untrained with a saber -> making additions that seem likely to chop off the hands of a clumsy untrainted fighter...it just doesn't add up very well imo. As justifications for it go, I feel like it being an addition by someone who wants an edge in combta and is confident enough in his abilities that he isn't worried by the possible downsides makes more sense than someone who isn't confident with the basic lightsaber deciding to make things even more complicated. The claymore comparison seems obvious on a superficial level, but doesn't really make sense for a lightsaber; firstly because the idea of bludgeoning someone with a heavier weapon doesn't really transfer from metal to lasers (physical strength yes, but the claymore-saber at best doesn't seem to make a difference to that tactic), and secondly because the crossguard functions totally differently from with a claymore, because it complicates the weapon rather than aiming towards simpler tactics.

The crouch possibly isn't even that big a deal, it's hard to tell really, as it may just be specific to that scene rather than an actual aspect of his fighting style. It just seemed a bit of an unncessary way to signal who the bad guy was alongside the dark robes, red saber, setting, and OTT narration.

[Brujah]

Also, and maybe they can be fired off as projectiles to catch someone unawares, or detatched and used as light-daggers.

[QuickTidal]

The Level of Nerdery we've unlocked here is godlike.

[Slow Ben]

Or maaaaaaaaaybe its like the small knife Aragon keeps on the side of Andurils sheath? You know, to cut up a deer or something.

What? It could happen.

[QuickTidal]

Slow Ben, on 04 December 2014 - 07:27 PM, said:

Or maaaaaaaaaybe its like the small knife Aragon keeps on the side of Andurils sheath? You know, to cut up a spacedeer or something.

What? It could happen.

Fixed.

[Nicodimas]

Slow Ben, on 04 December 2014 - 07:27 PM, said:

Or maaaaaaaaaybe its like the small knife Aragon keeps on the side of Andurils sheath? You know, to cut up a deer or something.

What? It could happen.

I always wanted to see a Sith Using two very short-bladed Lightsabers <10 inches> ...with his force-power HASTE himself in battle. Assassin mode right there.

This post has been edited by Nicodimas: 04 December 2014 - 08:25 PM

[Grief]

QuickTidal, on 04 December 2014 - 07:29 PM, said:

Slow Ben, on 04 December 2014 - 07:27 PM, said:

Or maaaaaaaaaybe its like the small knife Aragon keeps on the side of Andurils sheath? You know, to cut up a spacedeer or something.

What? It could happen.

Fixed.

Source: http://xkcd.com/890/

[Traveller]

QuickTidal, on 04 December 2014 - 07:22 PM, said:

The Level of Nerdery we've unlocked here is godlike.

It's sort of like a nerd convergence. The most plausable or at least mutually acceptable theory leads to Ascension in High House Nerd.


(Although most likely the design was chosen out of a portfolio of concept art because it 'looked cool'- with no true comprehension of the depth of nerdery out there just waiting to find an acceptable explanation for it..)

[Illuyankas]

Every time you earnestly argue about lightsaber design, an angel changes the timestream so that you lose one act of intercourse from your life, and then once you run out of those, one wank. Think of the sex acts!

[Silencer]

Psh, you give angels too much credit.

*cue arguments over angelic power levels in 3...2...1...*

XD