[QuickTidal]

FUCK.

Expanded Universe officially being rebooted, including the Zahn trilogy.

I honestly didn't think they'd do it. I thought they'd keep portions of it...

I'm pissed.

[QuickTidal]

Here are the first four POST-Jettison books though...

http://io9.com/first...nded-1567755354

[QuickTidal]

Briar King, on 25 April 2014 - 10:22 PM, said:

Let's be honest we knew it would happen to some extent but ALL the EU...fuck them I say. No amount of but you still enjoyed the books can sweeten that sting for me. I've spent SO much $ and TIME on this shit just to have it all erased. FUCK THEM!!!

Agreed.

[Silencer]

While I'm not a huge Expanded Universe fan (aside from the Jedi Knight games, and a dozen or so of the Obi-Wan as a Padawan books, I haven't really read much of the other content), I was always under the impression that the EU's status as canon was always basically "not canon", or dubious at best, based on popularity with the fans. Is it such a surprise that it's all being thrown out?

Consider; taking a knife to the EU was always going to piss some fans off. Always. Whoever would have to go through all of the EU and make some sort of decision on in/out would have spent months, if not years, making decisions, and probably receiving death threats all the way. Rather than that, it is a whole lot easier to stick with the party line - the EU wasn't canon, and instead of picking and choosing (and let's face it; unless that was a popularity contest, it was always going to end badly; and popularity contest isn't the best way to decide these things) just reboot it all. Simple.

Sure, it pisses EVERYONE off (except maybe the purists/diehard Original Trilogy fans), but it clears the shelf. Everyone is on the same footing, and the best stuff is available to be recycled into the canon proper at a later point.

I just can't see how they could have handled this any other way. The backlash was always going to be there. It was a no-win situation. And there's no reason fans can't take the approach that "fuck Disney, the EU is OURS so what we say, goes!". It may lead to conflicts under the new canon, but hey, the EU already had that.


In any case, I'm renaming this thread to something shorter and more suited to its overall conversations.

[Garak]

I knew this was coming, still pissed about it. At least the books they announced look interesting and are by writters I trust.

[QuickTidal]

@Silencer: See, if the EU were considered non-canon then you'd be right...but that's where things get REALLY murky.

George had final say on everything in the EU that happaned...not because he didn't want silly shit happening with his universe, but rather he wanted to make sure nothing contradicted the movie line or each other. He also very specifically told the book / comic writers to NOT kill off certain characters because he wanted to use them...so, for example, Jedi master Quinlan Vos (who was invented in the EU) made his debut in the CLONE WARS TV series fighting alongside Obi-Wan and Anakin in the Clone Wars...or Dathomir the planet where the nightsisters existed, and where Darth Maul originated...invented in the book THE COURTSHIP OF PRINCESS LEIA....used in not only the prequels with Maul, but the CLONE WARS tv show features both the planet and the Nightsisters as antagonists for a whole season. So basically George and Lucasfilm used the EU as a fertile ground for things that exist and people who live in the Star Wars universe. He approved the death of Chewbacca because he felt it was a nice story progression for Han to have to go through that loss (alcoholism and all)...Coruscant was named, created and described by Timothy Zahn in HEIR TO THE EMPIRE...the Coruscant that appears in the prequels is VERY much based off his work.

So while the waters are murky, a lot of the EU is either considered canon, or was made into canon...at least it was...

Here are a few things I guarantee you have now been stolen from the EU and will show up in one form or another in the new movies:

1. Mara Jade. Mara Jade has her own figures, comics, books, and is like THE fan favourite character. She WILL be involved with Luke...her backstory may just change.

2. Thrawn. Though Zahn's trilogy is a part of the jettison, I flat out guarantee you that Thrawn will show up in the new movies...he was and still is the BEST villain that the EU ever produced...and I have a sketchy feelign that if Benedict Cumberbatch HAS been cast in Ep VII....he'll be a variation on Thrawn. Or maybe they'll call him soemthing else and JJ will swear up and down in press interviews that he's NOT Thrawn....only to have him do all that Thrawn does.

3. Boba Fett will have survived the Sarlaac, been spat out, and goes in search of a way to prevent his clone body from dying.

I'm most upset by the loss of Jaina. She was (up till they ruined her by making her a foil to be married) the perfect culminatiuon of the SW story....roguish with a vicious tongue like her dad, an expert X-Wing pilot like her uncle, but calm and level headed like neither was...and eventually an unmathced swordsperson. Losing her sucks.

So yeah, I realize that my soapbox upon wihch I spout complaints is rickety, and fannish...but it's still mine and this is a series that I have been a die-hard fan of since birth (born in '77 don'tchaknow ) and so I feel I have more than a little leeway to do that. Not that anyone will listen, but no one gets to take away my right to bitch about it.

PLEASE NOTE: I was in favour of jettisoning SOME of the EU chaff that would mess with the new movies (killing off Chewie, Jecen going bad, the Yhuzaan Vong) but for the most part the setting was still good, as were the characters. They could have all been adapted and blended into the new movie universe.

for example:

Spoiler

Anakin Solo's death will still be the most heartbreaking thing to ever happen in the EU, and it was literally perfectly molded for a movie series event.

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 26 April 2014 - 12:03 PM

[QuickTidal]

I want to add the follwing:

I think this is going to create a religious-style schism like old Testament and New Testament in SW fandom. Just like when the Big Finish stuff was canonized on DOCTOR WHO, there are going to be fans who DON'T accept that it happened and is canon. Like ever.

That said, I want to say that I'm not at all unaccepting of a new canon...and I will read the new canon books (I'm a bit excited about the ones that take place before REBELS)...and I'm still SUPER excited about the movies...but there is a part of me that's goign to miss what came before, and be rankled that it may (depending on how much of it is ditched entirely) be gone forever.

I mean I only this morning realized that the old Brian daley books (SPLINTER IN THE MINDS EYE ect.) and even SHADOW OF THE EMPIRE is now gone as canon. My childhood is screaming. LOL!

Oh, but apparently the EMPIRE & REBELLION book series (RAZOR's EDGE by Martha Wells, HONOR AMONG THIEVES by SA Corey, and the forthcoming HEIR TO THE JEDI by Kevin Hearne) all of which take place between ANH and TESB, are considered a part of the new canon. Along with that NEW DAWN book about the SW:REBELS characters. So if one wanted to, one could already sink themselves into at least two books of the new EU...

[Gnaw]

It's the same process all revelatory religions go through when the original prophet passes the keys to a successor. Schisms develop over issues of authenticity. In a couple of hundred years there will probably be three major sects and numerous smaller ones.

• The Originalists == Only those portions of knowledge revealed by Lucas himself. i.e. no EU at all
• The Lucasites == The EU included but only up to the 'takeover' by the Ratists.
• The New Originalists (derogatory: Ratists) == The Original Lucas material plus any knowledge revealed after the Assumption of the Disneyites.

I'll guess at ~300 years before reaching equivalency with Christianity, Islam, and Buddhism.

[Illuyankas]

I need to buy a giant fuckoff laser so I can burn the word NERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRDS onto the Moon in molten letters hundreds of miles tall

[QuickTidal]

I don't think you should ever be allowed a laser Illy...not even when we all have laser guns of some kind in the future.

Too many lives would be lost.

[amphibian]

So... some of you are now in the position where I found myself after the movie prequels were halfway released - "This is stupid and I'm not giving them any more of my money."

I will add the possible mollifying sentence of "None of the people now handling Star Wars are as inconsiderate towards the overall story and quality of story as George Lucas is/was."

I do not mean that Lucas or anyone owes things to the nebulous fan masses. I mean that Lucas admitted stretching 1.5 movies into 3 and purposely dumbing them down to get merchandising going, rather than telling a good story, among other things with the EU. That dilution of story and marketing was or is behavior you'd expect from a drug dealer, not a story teller genuinely interested in telling stories.

[QuickTidal]

Adding to Lucas' Asshole moniker, he recently (before selling to Disney) changed the long-tsanding name of the Sith Homeworld from Korriban to Morriban....cause "he liked it better"

Like for real.

It's seriously a good thing his hand is not really in the punch bowl any longer.

[Garak]

Yeah I'm not calling it Moriband even if you theaten to Dragnipur me.

[Garak]

I first heard about it there then came here to see if the news had spread. It did.

[Silencer]

QuickTidal, on 26 April 2014 - 11:54 AM, said:

@Silencer: See, if the EU were considered non-canon then you'd be right...but that's where things get REALLY murky.

Ah, but I it was considered non-canon. The ongoing party line, as I understood it, has always been "the only firm canon are the movies". While I'm not going to dispute the rest of your post, that's less to do with those things being "canon" and Lucas using the EU as his own personal cherry-picking field. Again, that's just him being an asshole and profiting off other people's work.

This is why it's a mess. People who wanted that stuff to be canon, took it as a sign it was "official". People who didn't, ignored it. Other people treated anything with the "Star Wars" logo on it as canon. But again, implications or not, the "official" line, has always been "movies only".



But as I said, it's actually not that much of a problem. Unless it directly conflicts with new material, why can't you just go on treating the best bits as unofficial/fan-canon? Just say "stuff Lucasarts" and keep the non-conflicting bits.
I know it's a massive shitstorm right now but...has any of this actually been a surprise? Was this not obviously going to happen in some form? It's simple economics in terms of which option was going to be easiest and most beneficial, plus it was already "official" policy.

*shrug* Doesn't make it any less disappointing to the fans, I guess. But even I saw this coming and I'm not a huge EU guy, as I said.

[Gnaw]

Silencer, on 27 April 2014 - 02:02 AM, said:

QuickTidal, on 26 April 2014 - 11:54 AM, said:

@Silencer: See, if the EU were considered non-canon then you'd be right...but that's where things get REALLY murky.

Ah, but I it was considered non-canon. The ongoing party line, as I understood it, has always been "the only firm canon are the movies". While I'm not going to dispute the rest of your post, that's less to do with those things being "canon" and Lucas using the EU as his own personal cherry-picking field. Again, that's just him being an asshole and profiting off other people's work.

This is why it's a mess. People who wanted that stuff to be canon, took it as a sign it was "official". People who didn't, ignored it. Other people treated anything with the "Star Wars" logo on it as canon. But again, implications or not, the "official" line, has always been "movies only".



But as I said, it's actually not that much of a problem. Unless it directly conflicts with new material, why can't you just go on treating the best bits as unofficial/fan-canon? Just say "stuff Lucasarts" and keep the non-conflicting bits.
I know it's a massive shitstorm right now but...has any of this actually been a surprise? Was this not obviously going to happen in some form? It's simple economics in terms of which option was going to be easiest and most beneficial, plus it was already "official" policy.

*shrug* Doesn't make it any less disappointing to the fans, I guess. But even I saw this coming and I'm not a huge EU guy, as I said.

Oh. I forgot the Fundamental Originalists: Only Eps 4-6 are True revealed knowledge. Everything after Ep 1 is Apostasy due to Lucas Falling to the Dark Side.

This post has been edited by Gnaw: 27 April 2014 - 11:49 PM

[McLovin]

Rageun Cajun, on 27 April 2014 - 02:39 AM, said:

Has it been a surprise? No not since it was announced ep7 would make it onscreen. However all post ROTJ novels is a huge blow esp to those of us that have built up our bookcases since 1992.

No argument there. But you still have the enjoyment you got out of all those books. Disney can take that away from future readers, but they can't take it away from you.

[Gnaw]

Rageun Cajun, on 27 April 2014 - 02:39 AM, said:

Has it been a surprise? No not since it was announced ep7 would make it onscreen. However all post ROTJ novels is a huge blow esp to those of us that have built up our bookcases since 1992.

Get even with them. Box up the books, put them in a dry storage space, and let your grandkids sell them as collectibles many years from now.

Then acquire digital copies of all of them so you can still have them to read should you so desire.

[worry]

Just think of the books as canon and the movies as fanfic. I mean who cares, there's a 60/40 chance they're not gonna be any good and they might as well not exist except as larks anyway.

[QuickTidal]

So, as I thought when they dropped the bombshell about the EU rebooting/singular canon being created...they have something ready to announce to please everyone...

casting news is said to drop this week...and all three of the biggies have been spotted in London (Mark Hamill, Harrison Ford, and Carrie Fisher)...where a large portion of the films are being shot...Fisher brought her dog with her...which speaks of her staying a while...possibly shooting a movie or something....

But the best bit...

Here is a pic snapped and tweeted the other day of Hamill in London...he's looking great! Lost a LOT of the weight.

 MHpeter_large.jpg (57.18K)
Number of downloads: 0

My nerd-ometer is going into overdrive. When they announce the big three officially, officially in the film, I may jizz in my pants. Fair warning.

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 28 April 2014 - 07:55 PM