[Vengeance]

QuickTidal, on 26 July 2013 - 03:51 AM, said:

Abyss, on 25 July 2013 - 01:42 PM, said:

I tried CONTINUUM but the bad acting and not an original idea to be seen drove me away. I just can't do predictable television any more. Had the same problem with DEFIANCE.

What the hell show were you watching? I think the acting is stellar.

I wouldn't say steller. Lets save steller for Mad men and Breaking Bad. The acting was wooden at the beginning and warmed up a bit as the show went on. The script is tight on some thing but way off on others. The writers had a good idea and some decent implementation during the season but had a hard time not using stale ideas as a crutch when they where stuck moving the plot.

[Abyss]

D, on 24 July 2013 - 04:00 PM, said:

I started watching this on and off halfway through the season and finished it up a little while ago, too. Overall I like it, it's sort of categorized for me as a fun popcorn show that doesn't necessarily have a lot of depth, but is good enough I can't just watch it while distractedly doing something else at the same time.

Abyss, on 24 July 2013 - 03:34 PM, said:

The finale does set up some neat changes for S2, notably

Spoiler

1. Det Drake thinks the Vigilante is nifty. Tho i'm almost upset by this because he was more fun as an antagonist.
2. Drake knows about Felicity's connection to the Hood.
3. With Merlyn out we get a new Big Bad, tho Merlyn's return is inevitable, hopefully they wait a season.

4. Am also curious where the Island flashback storyline goes, now that the evil plot was foiled and Yang is dead. Slade and Shaido are still on the scene but in theory have to be gone by the time Ollie is rescued. And we don't know where the Russian Mafia tattoos came from yet.

Spoiler

1+2 - I really thought he was going to die at the end... him making his tearful goodbye speech because there was no more time left and then oh wait I guess there is time to flee after all I'm totally fine was kinda weird to me. Hopefully this part of it can lead to more interesting cops vs Hood dynamics, though, because the police chasing Ollie in season 1 never really seemed like much of a threat other than when he was arrested. Maybe season 2 will see some FBI hard-ass super detective show up to hunt down the vigilante via ruthless means, but Drake will give Ollie an in on the police activities.

3 - I do like that they killed off Tommy, as I was afraid they were going to either do the spiderman green goblin thing (ick) or agonizingly keep drawing out the love triangle dramas through season 2 as well (double ick). But having Tommy dead and Elder Merlyn put away leaves a vaccuum at the top of Merlyn Corp, doesn't it? Could see something happen with that.

4 - There was a short scene in one of the last few episodes of the mercenary leader reporting to a mystery woman, but not really any details. It's probably not Ollie's mom, though, I don't think there's any way that could make sense with what was revealed of her involvement in DER UNDERTAKING in the final episodes' flashbacks.

I really hope whoever the next big bad is has better naming conventions for his sinister plots />

FINALE SPOILERY DISCUSSION

Spoiler

Apparently next season is supposed to move Ollie a bit further from revenge-driven-vigilante to hero-helping-his-city, so Det. Drake's influence may be useful in that respect, esp if he's suspended from the SPD and has nothing better to do but help Ollie.

...which will also play funny with Ollie/Laurel, because Det Drake approving of Ollie is just utterly guaranteed to make Laurel suspicious. Also FFS HE WAS CHEATING ON HER BY SHAGGING HER SISTER!!!!!!


You make an interesting point about the vacuum at Merlyn Inc... we could see a new Merlyn family member show up as a foil. Since Queen Ind and Merlyn Inc are both going to be trying to recover, there could be some room for fun corp conflict there.

I thought that 'Mysterious Woman' was the white haired Triad lady from mid-season, but could be totally wrong.

Seeing some debate elsesite about how annoyed some people are that the show isn't doing superpowers, spawned from th Comicon revelation that we're getting Black Canary next season but sans super sonic scream.
I'm completely at the other end of the spectrum on this... we don't need another SMALLVILLE or HEROES and i'm totally cool with the show staying the hell away from anything metahuman. Sure the DCU easter eggs are good fun, but i liked that Count Vertigo was a math-obsessed drug dealer, and i like that Deadshot was a mildly cyborgized merc without the jumpsuit and so on. This show doesn't need superpowers and is better without them. Hi-tech, sure, but relatively grounded, not over-the-top. Give Black Canary mad karate skills and sonic grenades or something, we don't need her screaming with bad fx whenever the budget permits.

[champ]

The Flash to appear in next seasons Arrow!

Rock on!

[Abyss]

champ, on 30 July 2013 - 06:09 PM, said:

The Flash to appear in next seasons Arrow!

Rock on!

You sure about that? I read that a Flash show was being fasttracked (pun intended) because Arrow was a success, but no suggestion of guesting.

[D'rek]

That would be weird. How do you make a realistic version of a guy who can run impossibly fast...?

[QuickTidal]

Abyss, on 30 July 2013 - 06:13 PM, said:

champ, on 30 July 2013 - 06:09 PM, said:

The Flash to appear in next seasons Arrow!

Rock on!

You sure about that? I read that a Flash show was being fasttracked (pun intended) because Arrow was a success, but no suggestion of guesting.

Yep. It was in the Variety article that he was to be seeded on ARROW first before his own show comes out. I'd expect a few episodes with him in it before it happens.

D, on 30 July 2013 - 06:45 PM, said:

That would be weird. How do you make a realistic version of a guy who can run impossibly fast...?

MAN OF STEEL kind of blows the doors off straight realism in ARROW and subsequent DC projects.

The DC universe can't exist without stuff like the Speed Force (FLASH), Amazons, hidden islands (WONDER WOMAN), and SPace Police (GREEN LANTERN).

However, the Speed Force is a feasible scientific manipulation. If you could tap into it, you could use it to your advantage in such ways.

[Abyss]

I was kind of happy with ARROW off in its own little pocket DC universe without all the meta/super/para elements, alas.

[champ]

I was on my phone before, I can link the article now:

http://uk.ign.com/ar...pinoff-of-arrow

Guess they are putting the feelers out to see what sort of reaction it generates, I just hope it pays off.

This post has been edited by champ: 30 July 2013 - 07:25 PM

[QuickTidal]

Abyss, on 30 July 2013 - 07:12 PM, said:

I was kind of happy with ARROW off in its own little pocket DC universe without all the meta/super/para elements, alas.

See, but what is wrong with the Superhero and fantastical elements?

I don't get how having the fantastical in the show takes anything away from what you are enjoying.

EDIT: No offense intended, mind you Abyss. I'm just curious is all.

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 30 July 2013 - 07:47 PM

[Abyss]

Seen the articles now. Meh. I'll watch, but... meh.

@QT - Smallville. Heroes. Alphas. Large chunks of those shows were silly and wrong and done badly because of fx budgets (and yes, other things, but my point rests with this...). Arrow avoids this by not having to expend dollars making Oliver fight people who shoot laser beams out of their eyes, and the show is, imnsho, better for it. No freak of the weak. No retasked leftover Babylon 5 masks. No long drawn out episode to big reveal or fight at the end because the budget can only afford one flight sequence, two lightning bolts and a fadeaway. Even successful shows like Buffy, Angel, Supernatural and so on could suffer from this, but those shows created their own 'mythology' and worked within those limitations. When you're dealing with the DCU, well, Smallville.... Aquaman. Need i say more?

Point being that liked that Arrow stuck to a 'realistic' (using the term very loosely) storyline that avoided a lot of the things that put me off most genre shows.

[QuickTidal]

Abyss, on 30 July 2013 - 08:43 PM, said:

Seen the articles now. Meh. I'll watch, but... meh.

@QT - Smallville. Heroes. Alphas. Large chunks of those shows were silly and wrong and done badly because of fx budgets (and yes, other things, but my point rests with this...). Arrow avoids this by not having to expend dollars making Oliver fight people who shoot laser beams out of their eyes, and the show is, imnsho, better for it. No freak of the weak. No retasked leftover Babylon 5 masks. No long drawn out episode to big reveal or fight at the end because the budget can only afford one flight sequence, two lightning bolts and a fadeaway. Even successful shows like Buffy, Angel, Supernatural and so on could suffer from this, but those shows created their own 'mythology' and worked within those limitations. When you're dealing with the DCU, well, Smallville.... Aquaman. Need i say more?

Point being that liked that Arrow stuck to a 'realistic' (using the term very loosely) storyline that avoided a lot of the things that put me off most genre shows.

Good points indeed.

However, I doubt you need to worry about ARROW as a show on it's own. It may have Flash show up, or even superman, or Bats....but the core rogues gallery of villains, and overarcing stories about Oliver are always grounded. Kind of like Batman, his villains are all earthbound, non-magic jerkfaces he can fight with fancy weapons and gadgets. So I think ARROW itself will probably stay somewhat grounded as you wish....with the exception being that I'm REALLY quite sure that if the Green Arrow ever shows up in the Justice League films...it's gonna be Amell playing him, and it will be a crossover from the ARROW world...

But yeah, the WB and DC Entertainment are FAR too aware of Marvel's lead on them to not seed the future movies and Universe with a show that has ostensibly become not only a hit but one of the only shows on the CW to hit the male demographic with any hardness (pun intended).

[Abyss]

QuickTidal, on 31 July 2013 - 12:33 PM, said:

... I doubt you need to worry about ARROW as a show on it's own. It may have Flash show up, or even superman, or Bats....but the core rogues gallery of villains, and overarcing stories about Oliver are always grounded.

So far, and based on most interviews they're sticking with that. But industry pressure is giving us the Flash in a non-super show, so who knows? It's not hard to think of ways they could do it that downplay the superpower element (ie he moves ninja fast but we never see him running), so hopefully they'll go that way.

HEROES crumbled under pressure to (among other things) introduce more and more new characters and if ARROW's success is rewarded by being the entry point for new DCU tv characters, i suspect it will suffer for it.

As nifty as it was when SMALLVILLE attempted its own Justice League, Aquaman and Cybord were pretty silly. Oddly Oliver Queen (who was originally supposed to be Bruce Wayne but for licensing issues) worked pretty well on SMALLVILLE, which was the impetus for the ARROW show, tho of course they did a complete revamp... which actually goes to my point that Green Arrow works best as a grounded show, not one spun off of Superman's boyhood.

Quote

Kind of like Batman, his villains are all earthbound, non-magic jerkfaces he can fight with fancy weapons and gadgets.

Well that is the question... if they did a GOTHAM or POINTY EARS tv show, budget dictates they can't have Poison Ivy throwing vine/tentacles around every ep. They can do Killer Croc because makeup is cheaper than vfx, but that's essentially Batman fighting a Star Trek knobby forehead alien... so Ivy becomes a poisoning horticulturaliost and Killer Croc becomes a nickname for a guy with leather boots and it works. As long as no one tries to portray The Penguin. Rhas al Ghul... sure... the Joker, why not... but Mister Freeze i don't think so, and save the Superman guest appearance for the finale. But the Batsuit??? forget it.. no network tv show has the budget for that week after week. Bruce Wayne is wearing black jammies and a balaclava.

Quote

So I think ARROW itself will probably stay somewhat grounded as you wish....with the exception being that I'm REALLY quite sure that if the Green Arrow ever shows up in the Justice League films...it's gonna be Amell playing him, and it will be a crossover from the ARROW world...

Interesting point. It would certainly make sense, but i cold see them deciding to stick with the 'big 5' (7, whatever) and avoiding Amell's Arrow or Green Arrow at all because it would dilute the movie impact of Superman, Batman, Wonderwoman, GL, Flash etc etc on the big screen. Esp because none of those characters have a live action tv series at the moment (Bat-toon doesn't count). Tho hey, FLASH series...

Quote

But yeah, the WB and DC Entertainment are FAR too aware of Marvel's lead on them to not seed the future movies and Universe with a show that has ostensibly become not only a hit but one of the only shows on the CW to hit the male demographic with any hardness (pun intended).

Yes, but i think other elements may make them go in the other direction. Notice Marvel's AGENTS OF SHEILD is trying to ground things in a more street level espionage show precisely because they know there's a demand, but can't drop $10mil per episode. J August Richards leaping tall buildlings is about as 'super' as the show is likely to be most of the time.

And note Arrow doesn't even go that far. Deadshot's cyber-eye-patch was as 'super' as the show has gone.

[champ]

I wonder if WB and DC will try to make up for lost time Vs Marvel with getting The Flash show to tie in directly with the film universe and go high end production.

It would definitely make sense with the rumour they could somehow tie in the Arrow series too.

Also:

Quote

Allen will be a presence in the 8th, 9th and 20th episodes of Arrow, with the 20th acting as a backdoor pilot. The pilot will be directed by Game of Thrones Red Wedding/"The Rains of Castamere" helmer, and vetran TV director, David Nutter - whose many pilots include Smallville and Arrow.

[D'rek]

I saw the season 2 premiere, and liked it more than Agents of Shield

[Coco with marshmallows]

3 eps in, enjoying Arrow season 2.

Black Canary is..... so-so

Mention of Rhas al Ghul = Good.

Mention of Particle Accelerator in Century City = Fanboy glee.

[Primateus]

Cocoreturns, on 31 October 2013 - 12:39 AM, said:

3 eps in, enjoying Arrow season 2.

Black Canary is..... so-so

Mention of Rhas al Ghul = Good.

Mention of Particle Accelerator in Century City = Fanboy glee.

I agree, Black Canary is, and who she is, a bit teen angsty. That's what I thought, anyway, until the end of episode 4...Yikes!

[Serenity]

Only seen the first three eps of season 2, but I've enjoyed it very much so far. Annoyingly, I know little to nothing about the character(s) from the comics and managed to pick up a spoiler about the identity of Black Canary just by googling the title of the show (thanks Google for the cast photos and character names in search results these days!!).

[Coco with marshmallows]

So, given that they may be doing a Flash spin off from Arrow......

Could DC actually be planning to utilise TV shows to build the universe then jump into movies?

Essentially taking the opposite direction to Marvel?

Thoughts?

[D'rek]

Cocoreturns, on 07 November 2013 - 09:47 PM, said:

So, given that they may be doing a Flash spin off from Arrow......

Could DC actually be planning to utilise TV shows to build the universe then jump into movies?

Essentially taking the opposite direction to Marvel?

Thoughts?

Does DC really have that much much control over their properties though? Marvel made their own studio to unify the movies and TV shows for the properties that they hadn't sold off the rights to. There's been a whole bunch of DC movies and shows in recent years, but is there actually any connection on the business/studio side of things that unifies the whole thing? Obviously Arrow and the new Flash show are connected, but is there any link from them to the production of the upcoming Superman+Batman sequel movie, or to the Green Lantern movie?

Or instead are we discarding all of that, and Arrow + the new Flash series are the start of their own cinematic universe that is supposed to lead into other shows and movies that are in their own "universe" seperate from the Batman/Superman/Green Lantern/other movies and shows already made?

---

I do like that the writers have been setting up a lot of things so far this season. Not only have there been plenty of secret reveals and such, but they're adding in little hints that show they already know where they are going at least for the rest of the season, and that is always a good sign.

My count so far:

(spoiler tags for safety! This is up to episode 5)

Spoiler

Present plots
-mysterious lady Fyers was reporting to, from the S1 finale
-Deadshot is still out there
-Moira's got another big secret
-Black Canary, who exited stage right but could always come back
-the League of Assassins, Raz al Ghul and/or Talia
-Brother Blood
-Summer Glau, because let's face it they wouldn't have cast Summer Glau if she wasn't going to do something crazy and/or badass later on

Past plots
-Sara: "last time I saw this hood Shado was wearing it" or something like that
-Sara: "what happened to Slade?" - we last saw him on fire, and has been arguing with Ollie - could become the real, antagonistic, Deathstroke
-Sara - Ollie says he saw her die a second time. Also she's not very nice.
-Professor Ivo and his crazy ship with crazy research (presumably into some kind of immortality - tie this into League of Assassins with a Lazarus Pit?)

and in a couple more episodes, monsieur Flash will appear, too.

So there's lots on the go! I hope they plan to inter-weave a whole bunch of these together into a plot that is a huge pain in the ass for Ollie, but also lets him knock a lot of these hanging issues down by the end of the season!

---

Saw this up-thread:

Abyss, on 26 July 2013 - 03:55 PM, said:

Give Black Canary mad karate skills and sonic grenades or something, we don't need her screaming with bad fx whenever the budget permits.

Good call

This post has been edited by D'rek: 08 November 2013 - 05:17 PM

[QuickTidal]

DC is owned in its entirety by Warner Brothers. It has been that way for a few years now. So yeah, WB has control over most of their characters.