[D'riss]

3 votes shy. He better hurry.

[Korvalain]

He said he'd be gone for an hour about an hour and a half ago, so I imagine he'll be back soonish.

[Osseric]

I'm here .
Mockra thing looks pretty good . I will vote for him before I leave again (probably) .

[Osseric]

 Korvalain, on 19 September 2012 - 08:04 PM, said:

 Galain, on 19 September 2012 - 08:00 PM, said:

Hello all,

First, the important stuff:

I shave about once a week, and I look very handsome with or without facial hair. Of course, I wet shave. Everywhere.


Now for the minor details: I too subscribe to the 'brings up a role because they have a vested interest in it' theory, so at this moment I too am thinking Eloth could be an assassin. If this was later in the game and the faction lines were more clear, I would be inclined to leave Eloth alone, seeing as killing assassins isn't part of the faction victory conditions. But as I have little idea about the identities of most of my teammates, an Eloth lynch seems a safeish one.

The one thing I would point out is that it's also possible for the first person to have cried "assassin!" about Eloth and voted for them to themselves ALSO be an assassin, as they would be most keen to get rid of other possible assassins.

Vote Eloth

This is something I meant to point out, but forgot to actually mention it. I just wanted to clarify, seeing as I said in a post that it wasn't necessarily important for faction peeps to get rid of assassins, then voted for someone I noted was probably an assassin. Aside from the ties we DO know about, as stated in the OP, there is no way for everyone to know everyone in their own faction, so I would much rather get rid of a likely assassin. Their deaths aren't part of our VCs, but having one less person out there killing people trying to find the other assassins is alright by my books.

 Korvalain, on 19 September 2012 - 08:07 PM, said:

 Eloth, on 19 September 2012 - 07:55 PM, said:

What i mean by recruited is hired to kill someone by a faction

This here strikes me as a little weird. I have never played a game with an assassin mechanic, so I don't know much about it (gonna have to go do a little research), but there was no mention in the OP about assassins being hired. Is this another slip, or is the assassins being hired thing a normal assassin mechanic?

 Korvalain, on 19 September 2012 - 08:09 PM, said:

 Korvalain, on 19 September 2012 - 08:07 PM, said:

 Eloth, on 19 September 2012 - 07:55 PM, said:

What i mean by recruited is hired to kill someone by a faction

This here strikes me as a little weird. I have never played a game with an assassin mechanic, so I don't know much about it (gonna have to go do a little research), but there was no mention in the OP about assassins being hired. Is this another slip, or is the assassins being hired thing a normal assassin mechanic?

Below is from Tapper's FAQ thread:

Quote

Assassin
The Assassin is a regular (scum aligned) killer, except that his kills are unaffected by one or both of the following:
1. heals or bullet proofs on the target,
2. guards on the Assassin.
The role can be watered down by giving a limited number of uses of this ability to the Assassin.
Very exotic, very powerful role.

Nothing there about assassins being hired.

 Korvalain, on 19 September 2012 - 08:12 PM, said:

 Korvalain, on 19 September 2012 - 08:09 PM, said:

 Korvalain, on 19 September 2012 - 08:07 PM, said:

 Eloth, on 19 September 2012 - 07:55 PM, said:

What i mean by recruited is hired to kill someone by a faction

This here strikes me as a little weird. I have never played a game with an assassin mechanic, so I don't know much about it (gonna have to go do a little research), but there was no mention in the OP about assassins being hired. Is this another slip, or is the assassins being hired thing a normal assassin mechanic?

Below is from Tapper's FAQ thread:

Quote

Assassin
The Assassin is a regular (scum aligned) killer, except that his kills are unaffected by one or both of the following:
1. heals or bullet proofs on the target,
2. guards on the Assassin.
The role can be watered down by giving a limited number of uses of this ability to the Assassin.
Very exotic, very powerful role.

Nothing there about assassins being hired.

I checked last game, and there didn't seem to be any assassins in it. Gonna go check Sengoku 1 just to see, but the more I look into it, the more I think Eloth made a second slip.

EDIT: changed 'I checked last games' to game

 Korvalain, on 19 September 2012 - 08:15 PM, said:

Game 1 was a town vs. scum game, no assassins that I could see. So yes, I am convinced that Eloth slipped. DIE ASSASSIN!

I quoted all this to show how hard Korv wanted to get Eloth lynched because he thought Eloth was an assassin .This sounds like assassin going for others of his kind , yes?
And he was speculating about the assassin role alot , which I think is a little incriminating too .
So , If we are gonna go for an assassin (which someone mentioned is our safest option right now ) we should go for Korv.
Lemme see if there is anything else to dig up .

[Korvalain]

 Osseric, on 21 September 2012 - 06:40 PM, said:

 Korvalain, on 19 September 2012 - 08:04 PM, said:

 Galain, on 19 September 2012 - 08:00 PM, said:

Hello all,

First, the important stuff:

I shave about once a week, and I look very handsome with or without facial hair. Of course, I wet shave. Everywhere.


Now for the minor details: I too subscribe to the 'brings up a role because they have a vested interest in it' theory, so at this moment I too am thinking Eloth could be an assassin. If this was later in the game and the faction lines were more clear, I would be inclined to leave Eloth alone, seeing as killing assassins isn't part of the faction victory conditions. But as I have little idea about the identities of most of my teammates, an Eloth lynch seems a safeish one.

The one thing I would point out is that it's also possible for the first person to have cried "assassin!" about Eloth and voted for them to themselves ALSO be an assassin, as they would be most keen to get rid of other possible assassins.

Vote Eloth

This is something I meant to point out, but forgot to actually mention it. I just wanted to clarify, seeing as I said in a post that it wasn't necessarily important for faction peeps to get rid of assassins, then voted for someone I noted was probably an assassin. Aside from the ties we DO know about, as stated in the OP, there is no way for everyone to know everyone in their own faction, so I would much rather get rid of a likely assassin. Their deaths aren't part of our VCs, but having one less person out there killing people trying to find the other assassins is alright by my books.

 Korvalain, on 19 September 2012 - 08:07 PM, said:

 Eloth, on 19 September 2012 - 07:55 PM, said:

What i mean by recruited is hired to kill someone by a faction

This here strikes me as a little weird. I have never played a game with an assassin mechanic, so I don't know much about it (gonna have to go do a little research), but there was no mention in the OP about assassins being hired. Is this another slip, or is the assassins being hired thing a normal assassin mechanic?

 Korvalain, on 19 September 2012 - 08:09 PM, said:

 Korvalain, on 19 September 2012 - 08:07 PM, said:

 Eloth, on 19 September 2012 - 07:55 PM, said:

What i mean by recruited is hired to kill someone by a faction

This here strikes me as a little weird. I have never played a game with an assassin mechanic, so I don't know much about it (gonna have to go do a little research), but there was no mention in the OP about assassins being hired. Is this another slip, or is the assassins being hired thing a normal assassin mechanic?

Below is from Tapper's FAQ thread:

Quote

Assassin
The Assassin is a regular (scum aligned) killer, except that his kills are unaffected by one or both of the following:
1. heals or bullet proofs on the target,
2. guards on the Assassin.
The role can be watered down by giving a limited number of uses of this ability to the Assassin.
Very exotic, very powerful role.

Nothing there about assassins being hired.

 Korvalain, on 19 September 2012 - 08:12 PM, said:

 Korvalain, on 19 September 2012 - 08:09 PM, said:

 Korvalain, on 19 September 2012 - 08:07 PM, said:

 Eloth, on 19 September 2012 - 07:55 PM, said:

What i mean by recruited is hired to kill someone by a faction

This here strikes me as a little weird. I have never played a game with an assassin mechanic, so I don't know much about it (gonna have to go do a little research), but there was no mention in the OP about assassins being hired. Is this another slip, or is the assassins being hired thing a normal assassin mechanic?

Below is from Tapper's FAQ thread:

Quote

Assassin
The Assassin is a regular (scum aligned) killer, except that his kills are unaffected by one or both of the following:
1. heals or bullet proofs on the target,
2. guards on the Assassin.
The role can be watered down by giving a limited number of uses of this ability to the Assassin.
Very exotic, very powerful role.

Nothing there about assassins being hired.

I checked last game, and there didn't seem to be any assassins in it. Gonna go check Sengoku 1 just to see, but the more I look into it, the more I think Eloth made a second slip.

EDIT: changed 'I checked last games' to game

 Korvalain, on 19 September 2012 - 08:15 PM, said:

Game 1 was a town vs. scum game, no assassins that I could see. So yes, I am convinced that Eloth slipped. DIE ASSASSIN!

I quoted all this to show how hard Korv wanted to get Eloth lynched because he thought Eloth was an assassin .This sounds like assassin going for others of his kind , yes?
And he was speculating about the assassin role alot , which I think is a little incriminating too .
So , If we are gonna go for an assassin (which someone mentioned is our safest option right now ) we should go for Korv.
Lemme see if there is anything else to dig up .

Well, I already took the time to refute a similar accusation when D'riss made it, so rather than refute it again, I'm just gonna quote that refutation:

 Korvalain, on 19 September 2012 - 10:16 PM, said:

Actually, I quoted Tapper's Mafia 101 thread (http://forum.malazan...showtopic=20858) which is about Mafia in General. It has a rundown of just about any role you can think of. And I was just trying to get some kind of idea of what an assassin role usually entails as I thought Eloth's slip about the hiring assassins was a little suspicious.

That being said, I also went back and looked at the previous Sengoku games, and none of them had an assassin role in them, so they are not a good reference for this argument.

I have nothing overly invested in an Eloth lynch. He just keeps digging himself a hole, and seeing as no one else is coming up with anything decent in terms of cases, I took the time to research my accusations to make sure I wasn't making any unwarranted ones. If someone gives me a better lynch target then a likely assassin, then I will move my vote. For now, the fact that he's likely an assassin makes him a safe lynch for me. It assures me that I won't hit someone on my faction, and gets rid of one of the assassins, thus one of the people out there with killing power. I want my faction to win, and getting rid of an assassin makes it a bit easier to do that, though it doesn't directly affect my win conditions.

Rather than just attack me for making an actual case with proof and stuff to back up my accusations, why don't you make a case that I might be willing to move my vote for?

Edit: changed 'this very same' to 'a similar'

This post has been edited by Korvalain: 21 September 2012 - 06:48 PM

[Osseric]

 Korbas, on 19 September 2012 - 04:09 PM, said:

 Korbas, on 19 September 2012 - 03:48 PM, said:

 Eloth, on 19 September 2012 - 03:41 PM, said:

Popping in on a free period. No discussion as of yet. What does everyone think about the assassin mechanic?

We've had decent discussion, actually.

You an assassin? Age old rule. I need to go back and look at the mechanic, but i don't remember there being a lot to discuss..

(Replying to myself here). Yeah i just looked back, nothing too interesting there. We've had independant victories quite a few times in the recent past.

I think this is a classic example of bringing up your own role in discussion. Especially with how forced this reads.

Let me know if i'm completely off base here, but he seems like an assassin. And that's the safest of safe lynches. We get to vote someone without worrying about him being on our faction too much.

For now,


vote eloth

For above reasoning. Will be around for a while longer, then absent for long stretches.

So he didn't start the lynch train . ( 1 point for Korv)

 Korvalain, on 19 September 2012 - 06:17 PM, said:

Oh, forgot to vote... Given the above, I currently don't trust Eloth. I think he's an assassin that slipped and is now scrambling to try to cover it up.

vote Eloth

But he did hop on pretty quick on the train . putting 2 votes on Eloth with no other lynch targets .
and Then he says all those stuff I quoted , trying to push the case.

 Galain, on 19 September 2012 - 08:00 PM, said:

Hello all,

First, the important stuff:

I shave about once a week, and I look very handsome with or without facial hair. Of course, I wet shave. Everywhere.


Now for the minor details: I too subscribe to the 'brings up a role because they have a vested interest in it' theory, so at this moment I too am thinking Eloth could be an assassin. If this was later in the game and the faction lines were more clear, I would be inclined to leave Eloth alone, seeing as killing assassins isn't part of the faction victory conditions. But as I have little idea about the identities of most of my teammates, an Eloth lynch seems a safeish one.

The one thing I would point out is that it's also possible for the first person to have cried "assassin!" about Eloth and voted for them to themselves ALSO be an assassin, as they would be most keen to get rid of other possible assassins.

Vote Eloth

It may be possible that Korbas and Korv are 2 assassin . (they were the first two on Eloth's train )
I would run with Korv myself , with all the pushing he did to get the lynch .

[Osseric]

 Korvalain, on 21 September 2012 - 06:47 PM, said:

Well, I already took the time to refute a similar accusation when D'riss made it, so rather than refute it again, I'm just gonna quote that refutation:

 Korvalain, on 19 September 2012 - 10:16 PM, said:

Actually, I quoted Tapper's Mafia 101 thread (http://forum.malazan...showtopic=20858) which is about Mafia in General. It has a rundown of just about any role you can think of. And I was just trying to get some kind of idea of what an assassin role usually entails as I thought Eloth's slip about the hiring assassins was a little suspicious.

That being said, I also went back and looked at the previous Sengoku games, and none of them had an assassin role in them, so they are not a good reference for this argument.

I have nothing overly invested in an Eloth lynch. He just keeps digging himself a hole, and seeing as no one else is coming up with anything decent in terms of cases, I took the time to research my accusations to make sure I wasn't making any unwarranted ones. If someone gives me a better lynch target then a likely assassin, then I will move my vote. For now, the fact that he's likely an assassin makes him a safe lynch for me. It assures me that I won't hit someone on my faction, and gets rid of one of the assassins, thus one of the people out there with killing power. I want my faction to win, and getting rid of an assassin makes it a bit easier to do that, though it doesn't directly affect my win conditions.

Rather than just attack me for making an actual case with proof and stuff to back up my accusations, why don't you make a case that I might be willing to move my vote for?

Edit: changed 'this very same' to 'a similar'

I don't really believe that .
I'm saying you took a lot of time to make a case you weren't even sure of .

[Osseric]

Ehem, whatever. I won't vote right now, but I will probably be back before end of the day. So If anyone agrees with me with Korv stuff I will vote him. If not I will vote Mockra to get a lynch ...

[Korvalain]

 Osseric, on 21 September 2012 - 06:57 PM, said:

<snip>

So he didn't start the lynch train . ( 1 point for Korv)

<snip>

But he did hop on pretty quick on the train . putting 2 votes on Eloth with no other lynch targets .
and Then he says all those stuff I quoted , trying to push the case.

<snip>

It may be possible that Korbas and Korv are 2 assassin . (they were the first two on Eloth's train )
I would run with Korv myself , with all the pushing he did to get the lynch .

As I said to D'riss yesterday, the posts you quoted to show how I was 'pushing' for a lynch were not that. I had never played a game with an assassin in it, and seeing as my reason for voting Eloth was based around a possible slip by Eloth regarding his role, I felt it was necessary to take the time to research the role and research previous games. Had there been a better case out there yesterday, I would have been happy to move my vote, but as it stands, I felt that an Eloth vote was the safest as I felt he was likely an assassin who slipped up and thus voting for him meant I would not likely be voting off a member of my faction. The point of playing Mafia is to make a case as solid as possible, and to do that, I had to post my thought process. The only other post of substance that I made before the lynch was a refuting of one of Eloth's posts. I was by no means pushing for an Eloth lynch, and didn't push anyone else into voting for him. I simply laid out my reasons for voting Eloth and then let others make up their own minds. I said several times I would be willing to move my vote if there was a better option, but there just wasn't. How that's considered a push is beyond me.

[Spite]

 Osseric, on 21 September 2012 - 07:00 PM, said:

Ehem, whatever. I won't vote right now, but I will probably be back before end of the day. So If anyone agrees with me with Korv stuff I will vote him. If not I will vote Mockra to get a lynch ...

Maybe Korv is another assassin, but by my way of thinking, it doesn't hurt anything to let the assassins ferret eachother out so that we can lynch them off. According to the Op the VCs are mutually exclusive and that if an assassin eliminates their rivals, the game will continue until a faction victor is decided.

[Mockra]

Back, but I'll have to go back out when the pharmacy calls on my new script. But that will be no more than 30 minutes and they said they may not be able to fill it until tomorrow.

I'll handle this first:

• Ok, so we had a look at the head of the Ouchi signing a scroll that required his signature. And wishing somebody would make a mistake so that they could go to open war.
  
  Then we have an Amako general nodding at his paymaster and this "He resisted the urge to glance back. It was irritating, having to use such methods, but he had to trust his instincts and hope this worked. If he could avoid war for as long as possible..."
  
  
  That means we have now seen two of the three clans. In both cases they are doing something they find unwelcome. What I know of real Samurai culture is thin, but wouldn't hiring assassins make a Samurai unhappy?
  
  Path-Shaper told us that:
  • there are 3 clans struggling for dominance. We have yet to see any direct evidence of Hosokawa.
  • There are factions. However, we were not directly told that the 3 factions are the 3 clans listed; we all inferred that but it was not stated explicitly.
  • Per the lynch scene we know Eloth was working for for the Ashikaga shogun. So is the Ashikaga working to undermine Masamoto or is he simply using his own vassals to do Masamoto's bidding?
  • Karosis pointed out that there is some ambiguity between "assassins" and "unaligned assassins" in the first two PS posts.
  • Also no NKs

I'm just using basic logic to sum up what we all can actually know from Path-shaper.

• There are factions. How many we are left to discover.
• There are assassins. How many we are left to discover. As Korosis pointed out yesterday, there might be a further distinction. And PS "oh I worded it badly" does not to me actually remove the possibility of two kinds of assassins. YMMV.

• Assassins
• Unaligned assassins.

• there is an Ashikaga shogun who is a puppet of the Hosokawa.
• There are the competing clans: Hosokawa, Ouchi, and Amako. Now, we all assumed that 3 clans meant 3 factions matching the 3 clans, which meant most likely that there are 3 factions with 4 members and 4 assassins. I found that a very reasonable deduction. Right up until Eloth committed Sepuku.
• We KNOW that Eloth was a vassal of the Ashikaga Shogun.
• We know there is Ouchi and Amako involvement. But there has yet to be any evidence yet of Hosokawa involvement in the game. Possible variations:

• 3 factions matching 3 clans Ouchi, Amako, and Hosokawa (acting through Ashikaga). Weight 7 pr 8.
• 3 factions matching 3 clans Ouchi, Amako, and Ashikaga (acting on behalf of themselves to remove the Hosokawa foot on their necks). No involvement of the Hosokawa at all in game. Weight 6 or 7
• From here it get's interesting:

• 4 clans involved. 4 teams of 3 and 4 assassins. Weight 3 at best
• 3 clans involved Ouchi, Amako, and Hosokawa. But with Eloth as an single wild card assassin for the Ashikaga. So 3 factions, 3 "unaligned" assassins and 1 wild card assassin. Weight 6 or 7
• Other variations could get really wild.

This is all info that we can all reasonably deduce from PS statements. I post this publicly because I'm assuming that very player in the game could have done this for themselves. But tutting it out there allows conversation to flow.

[Korvalain]

 Mockra, on 21 September 2012 - 07:25 PM, said:

Back, but I'll have to go back out when the pharmacy calls on my new script. But that will be no more than 30 minutes and they said they may not be able to fill it until tomorrow.

I'll handle this first:

• Ok, so we had a look at the head of the Ouchi signing a scroll that required his signature. And wishing somebody would make a mistake so that they could go to open war.
  
  Then we have an Amako general nodding at his paymaster and this "He resisted the urge to glance back. It was irritating, having to use such methods, but he had to trust his instincts and hope this worked. If he could avoid war for as long as possible..."
  
  
  That means we have now seen two of the three clans. In both cases they are doing something they find unwelcome. What I know of real Samurai culture is thin, but wouldn't hiring assassins make a Samurai unhappy?
  
  Path-Shaper told us that:
  • there are 3 clans struggling for dominance. We have yet to see any direct evidence of Hosokawa.
  • There are factions. However, we were not directly told that the 3 factions are the 3 clans listed; we all inferred that but it was not stated explicitly.
  • Per the lynch scene we know Eloth was working for for the Ashikaga shogun. So is the Ashikaga working to undermine Masamoto or is he simply using his own vassals to do Masamoto's bidding?
  • Karosis pointed out that there is some ambiguity between "assassins" and "unaligned assassins" in the first two PS posts.
  • Also no NKs

I'm just using basic logic to sum up what we all can actually know from Path-shaper.

• There are factions. How many we are left to discover.
• There are assassins. How many we are left to discover. As Korosis pointed out yesterday, there might be a further distinction. And PS "oh I worded it badly" does not to me actually remove the possibility of two kinds of assassins. YMMV.

• Assassins
• Unaligned assassins.

• there is an Ashikaga shogun who is a puppet of the Hosokawa.
• There are the competing clans: Hosokawa, Ouchi, and Amako. Now, we all assumed that 3 clans meant 3 factions matching the 3 clans, which meant most likely that there are 3 factions with 4 members and 4 assassins. I found that a very reasonable deduction. Right up until Eloth committed Sepuku.
• We KNOW that Eloth was a vassal of the Ashikaga Shogun.
• We know there is Ouchi and Amako involvement. But there has yet to be any evidence yet of Hosokawa involvement in the game. Possible variations:

• 3 factions matching 3 clans Ouchi, Amako, and Hosokawa (acting through Ashikaga). Weight 7 pr 8.
• 3 factions matching 3 clans Ouchi, Amako, and Ashikaga (acting on behalf of themselves to remove the Hosokawa foot on their necks). No involvement of the Hosokawa at all in game. Weight 6 or 7
• From here it get's interesting:

• 4 clans involved. 4 teams of 3 and 4 assassins. Weight 3 at best
• 3 clans involved Ouchi, Amako, and Hosokawa. But with Eloth as an single wild card assassin for the Ashikaga. So 3 factions, 3 "unaligned" assassins and 1 wild card assassin. Weight 6 or 7
• Other variations could get really wild.

This is all info that we can all reasonably deduce from PS statements. I post this publicly because I'm assuming that very player in the game could have done this for themselves. But tutting it out there allows conversation to flow.

You're, again, basically ignoring the Introduction post.

[Mockra]

Bah. Pharmacy. Brb. 45 minutes tops. I would appreciate y'all not getting those 3 votes while I'm gone.

[Korvalain]

 Korvalain, on 21 September 2012 - 07:09 PM, said:

 Osseric, on 21 September 2012 - 06:57 PM, said:

<snip>

So he didn't start the lynch train . ( 1 point for Korv)

<snip>

But he did hop on pretty quick on the train . putting 2 votes on Eloth with no other lynch targets .
and Then he says all those stuff I quoted , trying to push the case.

<snip>

It may be possible that Korbas and Korv are 2 assassin . (they were the first two on Eloth's train )
I would run with Korv myself , with all the pushing he did to get the lynch .

As I said to D'riss yesterday, the posts you quoted to show how I was 'pushing' for a lynch were not that. I had never played a game with an assassin in it, and seeing as my reason for voting Eloth was based around a possible slip by Eloth regarding his role, I felt it was necessary to take the time to research the role and research previous games. Had there been a better case out there yesterday, I would have been happy to move my vote, but as it stands, I felt that an Eloth vote was the safest as I felt he was likely an assassin who slipped up and thus voting for him meant I would not likely be voting off a member of my faction. The point of playing Mafia is to make a case as solid as possible, and to do that, I had to post my thought process. The only other post of substance that I made before the lynch was a refuting of one of Eloth's posts. I was by no means pushing for an Eloth lynch, and didn't push anyone else into voting for him. I simply laid out my reasons for voting Eloth and then let others make up their own minds. I said several times I would be willing to move my vote if there was a better option, but there just wasn't. How that's considered a push is beyond me.

One more thing...

Here I note that Eloth might be someone with the ability to hire an assassin rather than an actual assassin. Wasn’t any reason for me to move my vote, but it’s just more to show that I wasn’t playing with blinders on, and that I was just trying to back up my own vote on Eloth.

 Korvalain, on 19 September 2012 - 08:51 PM, said:

I guess it should also be noted that Eloth could be someone with the ability to hire an assassin rather than an actual assassin. If that were the case, unless I know for sure he's in my faction, I see no point in letting someone with that ability live.

I think you're conveniently ignoring the fact that I did nothing to actually PUSH a vote, and that though I did a lot of research on the assassin role, I also looked at other possibilities for Eloth. Heck, I even touched on the possibility that he was a recruiter at one point. I still think he was an assassin, but he could just as easily been a character with the ability to hire assassins, or just a recruiter who made an assumption that ended up being taken as a slip.

[Galain]

 Osseric, on 21 September 2012 - 07:00 PM, said:

Ehem, whatever. I won't vote right now, but I will probably be back before end of the day. So If anyone agrees with me with Korv stuff I will vote him. If not I will vote Mockra to get a lynch ...

I can get behind that, Korv could just as easily be an assassin as Korbas. I still think Korbas is the more likely of the pair, though.

remove vote
vote Korvalain

[Korvalain]

 Galain, on 21 September 2012 - 07:33 PM, said:

 Osseric, on 21 September 2012 - 07:00 PM, said:

Ehem, whatever. I won't vote right now, but I will probably be back before end of the day. So If anyone agrees with me with Korv stuff I will vote him. If not I will vote Mockra to get a lynch ...

I can get behind that, Korv could just as easily be an assassin as Korbas. I still think Korbas is the more likely of the pair, though.

remove vote
vote Korvalain

Geez, what a shocker, someone gives him another option to deflect from Mockra and he jumps on it.

[Mockra]

 Korvalain, on 21 September 2012 - 07:28 PM, said:

[

You're, again, basically ignoring the Introduction post.

How? Game of info. So post where I'm wrong. Or not. But just stating I'm wrong is a waste of bandwidth.

[Korvalain]

 Mockra, on 21 September 2012 - 07:36 PM, said:

 Korvalain, on 21 September 2012 - 07:28 PM, said:

[

You're, again, basically ignoring the Introduction post.

How? Game of info. So post where I'm wrong. Or not. But just stating I'm wrong is a waste of bandwidth.

Take some time and go read my earlier post about this, I refuted it before you went to the dentist! Just cause you're lazy, here's a quote for you....

 Korvalain, on 21 September 2012 - 06:04 PM, said:

 Mockra, on 21 September 2012 - 05:10 PM, said:

Ok, so we had a look at the head of the Ouchi signing a scroll that required his signature. And wishing somebody would make a mistake so that they could go to open war.

Then we have an Amako general nodding at his paymaster and this "He resisted the urge to glance back. It was irritating, having to use such methods, but he had to trust his instincts and hope this worked. If he could avoid war for as long as possible..."


That means we have now seen two of the three clans. In both cases they are doing something they find unwelcome. What I know of real Samurai culture is thin, but wouldn't hiring assassins make a Samurai unhappy?

Path-Shaper told us that:

• there are 3 clans struggling for dominance. We have yet to see any direct evidence of Hosokawa.
• There are factions. However, we were not directly told that the 3 factions are the 3 clans listed; we all inferred that but it was not stated explicitly.
• Per the lynch scene we know Eloth was working for for the Ashikaga shogun. So is the Ashikaga working to undermine Masamoto or is he simply using his own vassals to do Masamoto's bidding?
• Karosis pointed out that there is some ambiguity between "assassins" and "unaligned assassins" in the first two PS posts.
• Also no NKs

Off to the doctor now. I'll write my defense of my "contradictions" while there and post when I come back. Should be no more than an hour. Oh, 1 last thing: I wasn't joking when I said that Karosis scared me and I'd be willing to get rid of him for that alone. You'll notice however that I did'nt vote for him or anyone else.

Wasn't there mention of Hosokawa in the introduction post?

 Path-Shaper, on 19 September 2012 - 01:14 AM, said:

It is the early 1500's, in lands West of the Imperial capital, Kyoto. With the defeat of the Ashikaga in the East, it did not take much for Western clans to make their own strikes for power. Masamoto Hosokawa struck first. In a conflict between the Hosokawa and the Hatakeyama clan, shogun Yoshitane led troops against Masamoto.
The shogun was defeated.

Masamoto subsequently took control of Kyoto, and exiled Yoshitane, raising Ashikaga Yoshizumi to the post of shogun in his stead. Yoshizumi, however, was nothing more than Masamoto's puppet to control.

Seeing as Eloth was Ashikaga, and the Ashikaga is a Hosokawa puppet, Eloth could very well have been Hosokawa. I suppose it's a thin thread at best, but this could work with the Eloth having a find ability, and so someone else (i.e. you) may also have a find ability like Olar Ethil mentioned up thread. Anyway, all that to say that it's still kind of unclear whether Eloth was an assassin or not. He could just as easily have been one of the Hosokawa seeing as the Ashikaga Shogun is a Hosokawa puppet. I still believe that Eloth WAS an assassin, but I have been wrong before in Mafia, so I could very well be wrong again.

[Meanas]

getting slammed here, back later on

[Spite]

 Meanas, on 21 September 2012 - 07:41 PM, said:

getting slammed here, back later on

Fixed to add an appropriate emoticon...