[Emurlahn]

Osseric, on 21 September 2012 - 06:40 PM, said:

Korvalain, on 19 September 2012 - 08:04 PM, said:

Galain, on 19 September 2012 - 08:00 PM, said:

Hello all,

First, the important stuff:

I shave about once a week, and I look very handsome with or without facial hair. Of course, I wet shave. Everywhere.


Now for the minor details: I too subscribe to the 'brings up a role because they have a vested interest in it' theory, so at this moment I too am thinking Eloth could be an assassin. If this was later in the game and the faction lines were more clear, I would be inclined to leave Eloth alone, seeing as killing assassins isn't part of the faction victory conditions. But as I have little idea about the identities of most of my teammates, an Eloth lynch seems a safeish one.

The one thing I would point out is that it's also possible for the first person to have cried "assassin!" about Eloth and voted for them to themselves ALSO be an assassin, as they would be most keen to get rid of other possible assassins.

Vote Eloth

This is something I meant to point out, but forgot to actually mention it. I just wanted to clarify, seeing as I said in a post that it wasn't necessarily important for faction peeps to get rid of assassins, then voted for someone I noted was probably an assassin. Aside from the ties we DO know about, as stated in the OP, there is no way for everyone to know everyone in their own faction, so I would much rather get rid of a likely assassin. Their deaths aren't part of our VCs, but having one less person out there killing people trying to find the other assassins is alright by my books.

Korvalain, on 19 September 2012 - 08:07 PM, said:

Eloth, on 19 September 2012 - 07:55 PM, said:

What i mean by recruited is hired to kill someone by a faction

This here strikes me as a little weird. I have never played a game with an assassin mechanic, so I don't know much about it (gonna have to go do a little research), but there was no mention in the OP about assassins being hired. Is this another slip, or is the assassins being hired thing a normal assassin mechanic?

Korvalain, on 19 September 2012 - 08:09 PM, said:

Korvalain, on 19 September 2012 - 08:07 PM, said:

Eloth, on 19 September 2012 - 07:55 PM, said:

What i mean by recruited is hired to kill someone by a faction

This here strikes me as a little weird. I have never played a game with an assassin mechanic, so I don't know much about it (gonna have to go do a little research), but there was no mention in the OP about assassins being hired. Is this another slip, or is the assassins being hired thing a normal assassin mechanic?

Below is from Tapper's FAQ thread:

Quote

Assassin
The Assassin is a regular (scum aligned) killer, except that his kills are unaffected by one or both of the following:
1. heals or bullet proofs on the target,
2. guards on the Assassin.
The role can be watered down by giving a limited number of uses of this ability to the Assassin.
Very exotic, very powerful role.

Nothing there about assassins being hired.

Korvalain, on 19 September 2012 - 08:12 PM, said:

Korvalain, on 19 September 2012 - 08:09 PM, said:

Korvalain, on 19 September 2012 - 08:07 PM, said:

Eloth, on 19 September 2012 - 07:55 PM, said:

What i mean by recruited is hired to kill someone by a faction

This here strikes me as a little weird. I have never played a game with an assassin mechanic, so I don't know much about it (gonna have to go do a little research), but there was no mention in the OP about assassins being hired. Is this another slip, or is the assassins being hired thing a normal assassin mechanic?

Below is from Tapper's FAQ thread:

Quote

Assassin
The Assassin is a regular (scum aligned) killer, except that his kills are unaffected by one or both of the following:
1. heals or bullet proofs on the target,
2. guards on the Assassin.
The role can be watered down by giving a limited number of uses of this ability to the Assassin.
Very exotic, very powerful role.

Nothing there about assassins being hired.

I checked last game, and there didn't seem to be any assassins in it. Gonna go check Sengoku 1 just to see, but the more I look into it, the more I think Eloth made a second slip.

EDIT: changed 'I checked last games' to game

Korvalain, on 19 September 2012 - 08:15 PM, said:

Game 1 was a town vs. scum game, no assassins that I could see. So yes, I am convinced that Eloth slipped. DIE ASSASSIN!

I quoted all this to show how hard Korv wanted to get Eloth lynched because he thought Eloth was an assassin .This sounds like assassin going for others of his kind , yes?
And he was speculating about the assassin role alot , which I think is a little incriminating too .
So , If we are gonna go for an assassin (which someone mentioned is our safest option right now ) we should go for Korv.
Lemme see if there is anything else to dig up .

I hope you understand the irony of this.

That said, I don't disagree with you. I just think its strange that you are suggesting we lynch an assassin who you suppose is an assassin because he wanted to lynch someone who he supposed was an assassin.

I'm looking at posts in random order while I have the chance.

[Emurlahn]

Galain, on 21 September 2012 - 07:33 PM, said:

Osseric, on 21 September 2012 - 07:00 PM, said:

Ehem, whatever. I won't vote right now, but I will probably be back before end of the day. So If anyone agrees with me with Korv stuff I will vote him. If not I will vote Mockra to get a lynch ...

I can get behind that, Korv could just as easily be an assassin as Korbas. I still think Korbas is the more likely of the pair, though.

remove vote
vote Korvalain

I was also in the camp of not believing Galain was symping Mockra. But then this post. Galain is still pushing his previous agenda, but it reads more as a desperate attempt to lynch anyone but Mockra. It almost seems too easy to be true.

[Emurlahn]

All that information from Mockra is interesting to read, but doesn't give us much of a reason not to lynch him. How much time is left? I've got to run for a bit but I will be on and off if things go as plan.

[Korvalain]

Emurlahn, on 21 September 2012 - 08:03 PM, said:

All that information from Mockra is interesting to read, but doesn't give us much of a reason not to lynch him. How much time is left? I've got to run for a bit but I will be on and off if things go as plan.

There's about 8 and a half hours left by my estimation.

[Spite]

What are the plans for the weekend? Is there going to be a freeze?

[Emurlahn]

Mockra, on 21 September 2012 - 07:31 PM, said:

Bah. Pharmacy. Brb. 45 minutes tops. I would appreciate y'all not getting those 3 votes while I'm gone.

It's been an hour and 15 minutes since this.

[D'riss]

Oops. Wrong thread.

This post has been edited by D'riss: 21 September 2012 - 09:02 PM

[Mockra]

Mockra, on 19 September 2012 - 05:10 PM, said:

Emurlahn, on 19 September 2012 - 02:30 PM, said:

Osseric, on 19 September 2012 - 02:26 PM, said:

Meanas, on 19 September 2012 - 02:21 PM, said:

Korbas, on 19 September 2012 - 02:06 PM, said:

Karosis, on 19 September 2012 - 03:19 AM, said:

Second. So who do we go after day one? Or do we just do the japansex thing today?

Odd question. Why do you ask who we go after when you're in the first two posters? Especially strange in a faction game, imo.

I thought it odd too

I guess he was trying to deflect attention . find a suitable lynch target so that you yourself will not be lynched .(Important role not wanting to die on his faction ?)

A defence of Karosis from Osseric?

Korbas, on 19 September 2012 - 04:09 PM, said:

Korbas, on 19 September 2012 - 03:48 PM, said:

Eloth, on 19 September 2012 - 03:41 PM, said:

Popping in on a free period. No discussion as of yet. What does everyone think about the assassin mechanic?

We've had decent discussion, actually.

You an assassin? Age old rule. I need to go back and look at the mechanic, but i don't remember there being a lot to discuss..

(Replying to myself here). Yeah i just looked back, nothing too interesting there. We've had independant victories quite a few times in the recent past.

I think this is a classic example of bringing up your own role in discussion. Especially with how forced this reads.

Let me know if i'm completely off base here, but he seems like an assassin. And that's the safest of safe lynches. We get to vote someone without worrying about him being on our faction too much.

For now,


vote eloth

For above reasoning. Will be around for a while longer, then absent for long stretches.

I'm going to disagree with your reasoning Korbas. But agree with your solution. Rather than a forced push on the assassin role, I think it was adept changing of the subject away for the Osseric defending Karosis discussion. But which one is he trying to protect? Too soon to tell. So vote Eloth and see who jumps on the train.
Vote Eloth.

And I still stand by this reasoning. Eloth turned out to be a simple faction member not an assassin. And I really did just make a screwup on the bold.

[Mockra]

Mockra, on 19 September 2012 - 10:12 PM, said:

D, on 19 September 2012 - 09:29 PM, said:

And Mockra, if that was the case, why was Osseric's reaction enough to make you vote for him? I'm just trying to figure out your reasoning here.

Ah. It's 8 hours into day 1 so most likely all the speculation so far is total BS. Assuming that I'm right would mean that Eloth is aware that Osseric OR Korosis (orig said Korabas) is a known faction member. "Each member of a faction knows their leader. The leader of each faction also knows a single member of their faction." The leader is unlikely to try to divert from a member. Therefore Osseric OR Korosis (orig said Korabas) is a faction leader. Osseric jumped on my typo very quickly so I weighted him more heavily; the 'very quickly' being the operative in that. However, you also keyed in on the typo. And consensus seems to be building a strong case on the Eloth slipped and revealed.

Edit: I said Korabas in this post. It was Korosis who made the strange "who do we lynch" comment Now I've given myself a headache.

I'll stand on this as well.

[Mockra]

Karosis, on 20 September 2012 - 03:37 AM, said:

Had my eats, so a few more comments.

Emurlahn, on 19 September 2012 - 02:30 PM, said:

Osseric, on 19 September 2012 - 02:26 PM, said:

Meanas, on 19 September 2012 - 02:21 PM, said:

Korbas, on 19 September 2012 - 02:06 PM, said:

Karosis, on 19 September 2012 - 03:19 AM, said:

Second. So who do we go after day one? Or do we just do the japansex thing today?

Odd question. Why do you ask who we go after when you're in the first two posters? Especially strange in a faction game, imo.

I thought it odd too

I guess he was trying to deflect attention . find a suitable lynch target so that you yourself will not be lynched .(Important role not wanting to die on his faction ?)

A defence of Karosis from Osseric?

That was not a defence from Osseric. This is a faction game. That's more along the lines of painting a target. Hey look, this guy is important to not my team.

While I normally don't find role speculation a hint of actual roles, I do find the way Eloth posed it as odd.

Eloth, on 19 September 2012 - 03:41 PM, said:

Popping in on a free period. No discussion as of yet. What does everyone think about the assassin mechanic?

1. There was previous discussion.
2. It is rare to see someone ask for discussion of one specific role in a faction game. If we assume that the previously posited distribution of four members per team is correct, then there are four roles not being asked about. Normally, someone will at least drop something about another potential role or two to fish for information on who has them.

The OP states the following:

Path-Shaper, on 18 September 2012 - 06:32 AM, said:

Factions:

Each member of a faction knows their leader. The leader of each faction also knows a single member of their faction.

Victory conditions for factions:

Achieve numerical superiority over rival factions. Unaligned assassins are not included when calculating faction numbers.

I reread this after the noise Eloth made about assassins being able to be hired and seeing this post:

Galain, on 19 September 2012 - 08:34 PM, said:

The thing that I would point out is that the OP scene setter does make it sound as if assassins will be hired to kill certain people, rather than being completely independent, or is that only my interpretation of it? It doesn't really fit with the assassin VCs though, unless of course they get some info on other assassins in return for 'doing a job'. Or is that too convoluted?

Note that it specifically states the unaligned assassins do not count against victory conditions. Not assassins in general. This makes it seem that both Eloth and Galain may be on to something, that assassins may be or become aligned (kinda doubt it though).

From the sum of these, I have doubts on whether Eloth is an assassin. If they are not an assassin, I still I think they were given information about assasins that I was not, which if it means they can hire assassins makes them more dangerous than an actual assassin. I also do not think they are in my faction so I am fine with voting for Eloth today.

This is where I began to have some doubts.

[Korvalain]

Mockra, on 21 September 2012 - 09:18 PM, said:

And I still stand by this reasoning. Eloth turned out to be a simple faction member not an assassin. And I really did just make a screwup on the bold.

What makes you so sure that he wasn't an assassin? It's pretty ambiguous if you ask me.

[Meanas]

Fener, on 21 September 2012 - 03:11 AM, said:

I can buy the potential for 3 teams of 4, and 4 assassins, but I can't buy 4 NKs each night. I think that would end the game far too quickly. Doesn't the OP mention something about the assassin role being 'watered down', and they ( the assassins) may have only a limited number of NK attempts. It would make sense, and explain why there was no NK last night. I think the assassins might also be finders, and are waiting to find each other before pulling the trigger, or the 'knife in the dark', so to speak. But it's only a theory at this point.

what makes you think this? wouldn't that overpower them?

[Mockra]

My hypothesis was that Eloth jumped in as an attempt to stall the conversation ref: Korosis and Osseric seemingly strange posts. That, would mean that Eloth was a faction member who knew either Korosis or Osseric was the faction leader. I had initially pegged Osseric as that leader because he immediately jumped on me for a typo.

As time went by with no sign of the presence of Korosis, I began giving less weight to the Osseric idea. Especially when somebody else tripped on the lack of bolding. In the meantime Eloth kept digging himself in deeper.

Then Korosis popped up. Now, it certainly is possible that Korosis had been tracking the thread the entire day, but he seemingly checked in as coming home from work and 'going to catch up while I eat'. He soon posted what I find to be a very interesting post that showed he had blown away all the dross, condensed the important (to him) details down to a handful of pertinent quotes, and came to solid (to me) conclusions.

He posited that Eloth was not an assassin but that he had shown himself (and Galain) to be aware of info that contained assassin mechanisms. So he jumped on the Eloth train. I found the argument sound and changed my vote accordingly. And that pretty much did Eloth in.

The apparent mental acuity of Korosis' posits made me put him high on my worry list.

[Mockra]

Next was the lynch result. Eloth (Azathmaster), Agent of the Ashikaga Shogunate is dead. I went off to bed wondering 3 things:

• Korosis had mentioned there was some ambiguity in PS use of the word assassin. VC conditions for assassins is simply 'last assassin alive' but VC conditions for factions said that 'unaligned assassins' did not count towards faction count. Did that mean there were two sets of assassins out there? I still find that an interesting question.
• The 'agent of the Ashikaga Shogunate' thing.

• Was Eloth an agent of the Hosokawa acting on orders routed through the shogun?
• Or was he an agent of the Ashikaga acting on behalf of the Ashikaga clan.

• If Eloth was simply an agent of the Hosokawa, then he really could have brought up the whole assassin issue as a (successful) attempt to deflect from the "aren't those two posts a bit strange" conversation. Note that Korosis didn't think Eloth was an assissan, but voted for him based on the (stated) rationale that Eloth had assassin info.

When I woke up it was still night phase and we ended up waiting on Shin to wake up, sneak out without waking the geisha, and go home to log in.

Edit: sorry for the long boring posts, but if I'm going to be hung for supposed 'contradictions' my only defense is to point out that I haven't yet made any.

This post has been edited by Mockra: 21 September 2012 - 10:13 PM

[Mockra]

Galain, on 20 September 2012 - 11:16 PM, said:

Path-Shaper, on 20 September 2012 - 10:50 PM, said:

In a rush, will insert scene later.

Night One is over. No one died.



It is Day 2.

15 players are left alive.


D'riss, Emurlahn, Fener, Galain, Karosis, Korbas, Korvalain, Liosan, Meanas, Mockra, Olar Ethil, Osseric, Sorrit, Spite, Tellan


8 votes to lynch, 8 to go to night.

Guess Korv was wrong about the assassination contract. So what does everyone think the other scene was all about?

This is the only night phase comment that I find of interest. More on that later. But I think it's important.


Edit: damn, I just made a contradiction. Sorta. This particular comment was one of the first ones of Day 2.

This post has been edited by Mockra: 21 September 2012 - 10:23 PM

[Path-Shaper]

It is Day 2. 6 hours and 23 minutes are left in the day.

15 players are left alive.


D'riss, Emurlahn, Fener, Galain, Karosis, Korbas, Korvalain, Liosan, Meanas, Mockra, Olar Ethil, Osseric, Sorrit, Spite, Tellan


8 votes to lynch, 8 to go to night.

4 votes Mockra: Spite, Korvalain, Korbas, Olar Ethl
1 vote Korvalain: Galain

Players not voting: D'riss, Emurlahn, Fener, Karosis, Liosan, Meanas, Mockra, Osseric, Sorrit, Tellan

[Emurlahn]

If you have a good alternative, post it. I'm not going to be around much longer and I need to place my vote before I go.

[Mockra]

Mockra, on 21 September 2012 - 02:45 AM, said:

As for doing something useful, while I reach for the aspirin bottle, Korosis scared the crap out of me yesterday. He's way too fucking smart for our continued good health. I think I could easily be talked into just a "let's all lynch the bright person in the next 3 hours".

This post seems to bother a lot of people for different reasons:

• Korosis obviously disagrees. Quite understandably so; don't blame him a bit.
• Somebody else does because getting rid of the smart players is poor play. I'll agree with one provision: I assume that all opponents are smart until they prove they're not.
• Korv's "I don't think we should just lynch him within 3 hours by any means. That's just poor play." Agreed

I see nothing wrong with getting rid of someone that I think is smarter than I am. That's just common sense. I did not vote that way before I went to bed. I through it out there to see if it had legs. Lynch me or not for it, but that's the way it is.

[Sorrit]

caught up but im pretty tired so bare with me for the fuzzy thinking.

am I right in thinking that the korv vote is because he is an assassin?

mokras vote is for his contradictions and his attack on karosis for being clever?

I think its a little daft to be trying to get rid of someone because they look to be doing to good a job this early in the game.
If you are pretty sure that there not on your team, I suppose it makes sense. you don't want a decent enemy player dictating lynches when there's only a few players left... and for all I know karosis could be an enemy faction to me so i see the threat. or he could be on my team or an assassin or anything.

I didnt think much of galains symping till he voted for korv, either korv and korabas are both assassins (in which case galain is probably the fourth ) or he wants to shift attention from mockra (which means mockra is probably a leader)

Then again I don't like the idea that the assassins all know each other so quickly, eloth hinted at a find ability, maybe that was to help them find each other?

nor do I see the point in an assassin hunt as it wont help me win. yes its a safe lynch as it wont kill off my team, but its not going to advance my teams chances either, nor is it likely to give me any real leads on finding out the teams

Im off to bed, im not going to be back online in time for the lynch.
on the assumption my fuzzy thinking is roughly on the right track I shall
vote mockra


mainly because of galains sympage, i could be wrong but that points to a leader role and as he isnt my leader its worth a vote

[Emurlahn]

Last chance for an alternative. Leaving in 5