[D'riss]

But what exactly was the purpose of the non-bolded vote for Eloth? That's what confused me.

[Eloth]

What i mean by recruited is hired to kill someone by a faction

[Eloth]

If i was deflecting from osseric or karosis, why vote for me? No one goes for the symp. Are you deflecting from them and capitalizibg on my carelessly worded posts

[Galain]

Hello all,

First, the important stuff:

I shave about once a week, and I look very handsome with or without facial hair. Of course, I wet shave. Everywhere.


Now for the minor details: I too subscribe to the 'brings up a role because they have a vested interest in it' theory, so at this moment I too am thinking Eloth could be an assassin. If this was later in the game and the faction lines were more clear, I would be inclined to leave Eloth alone, seeing as killing assassins isn't part of the faction victory conditions. But as I have little idea about the identities of most of my teammates, an Eloth lynch seems a safeish one.

The one thing I would point out is that it's also possible for the first person to have cried "assassin!" about Eloth and voted for them to themselves ALSO be an assassin, as they would be most keen to get rid of other possible assassins.

Vote Eloth

[Korvalain]

Galain, on 19 September 2012 - 08:00 PM, said:

Hello all,

First, the important stuff:

I shave about once a week, and I look very handsome with or without facial hair. Of course, I wet shave. Everywhere.


Now for the minor details: I too subscribe to the 'brings up a role because they have a vested interest in it' theory, so at this moment I too am thinking Eloth could be an assassin. If this was later in the game and the faction lines were more clear, I would be inclined to leave Eloth alone, seeing as killing assassins isn't part of the faction victory conditions. But as I have little idea about the identities of most of my teammates, an Eloth lynch seems a safeish one.

The one thing I would point out is that it's also possible for the first person to have cried "assassin!" about Eloth and voted for them to themselves ALSO be an assassin, as they would be most keen to get rid of other possible assassins.

Vote Eloth

This is something I meant to point out, but forgot to actually mention it. I just wanted to clarify, seeing as I said in a post that it wasn't necessarily important for faction peeps to get rid of assassins, then voted for someone I noted was probably an assassin. Aside from the ties we DO know about, as stated in the OP, there is no way for everyone to know everyone in their own faction, so I would much rather get rid of a likely assassin. Their deaths aren't part of our VCs, but having one less person out there killing people trying to find the other assassins is alright by my books.

[Korvalain]

Eloth, on 19 September 2012 - 07:55 PM, said:

What i mean by recruited is hired to kill someone by a faction

This here strikes me as a little weird. I have never played a game with an assassin mechanic, so I don't know much about it (gonna have to go do a little research), but there was no mention in the OP about assassins being hired. Is this another slip, or is the assassins being hired thing a normal assassin mechanic?

[Korvalain]

Korvalain, on 19 September 2012 - 08:07 PM, said:

Eloth, on 19 September 2012 - 07:55 PM, said:

What i mean by recruited is hired to kill someone by a faction

This here strikes me as a little weird. I have never played a game with an assassin mechanic, so I don't know much about it (gonna have to go do a little research), but there was no mention in the OP about assassins being hired. Is this another slip, or is the assassins being hired thing a normal assassin mechanic?

Below is from Tapper's FAQ thread:

Quote

Assassin
The Assassin is a regular (scum aligned) killer, except that his kills are unaffected by one or both of the following:
1. heals or bullet proofs on the target,
2. guards on the Assassin.
The role can be watered down by giving a limited number of uses of this ability to the Assassin.
Very exotic, very powerful role.

Nothing there about assassins being hired.

[Mockra]

D, on 19 September 2012 - 07:17 PM, said:

But what exactly was the purpose of the non-bolded vote for Eloth? That's what confused me.

That was simply a mistake on my part. Apparently bolding text really is that hard.

[Korvalain]

Korvalain, on 19 September 2012 - 08:09 PM, said:

Korvalain, on 19 September 2012 - 08:07 PM, said:

Eloth, on 19 September 2012 - 07:55 PM, said:

What i mean by recruited is hired to kill someone by a faction

This here strikes me as a little weird. I have never played a game with an assassin mechanic, so I don't know much about it (gonna have to go do a little research), but there was no mention in the OP about assassins being hired. Is this another slip, or is the assassins being hired thing a normal assassin mechanic?

Below is from Tapper's FAQ thread:

Quote

Assassin
The Assassin is a regular (scum aligned) killer, except that his kills are unaffected by one or both of the following:
1. heals or bullet proofs on the target,
2. guards on the Assassin.
The role can be watered down by giving a limited number of uses of this ability to the Assassin.
Very exotic, very powerful role.

Nothing there about assassins being hired.

I checked last game, and there didn't seem to be any assassins in it. Gonna go check Sengoku 1 just to see, but the more I look into it, the more I think Eloth made a second slip.

EDIT: changed 'I checked last games' to game

This post has been edited by Korvalain: 19 September 2012 - 08:13 PM

[Korvalain]

Game 1 was a town vs. scum game, no assassins that I could see. So yes, I am convinced that Eloth slipped. DIE ASSASSIN!

[Galain]

The thing that I would point out is that the OP scene setter does make it sound as if assassins will be hired to kill certain people, rather than being completely independent, or is that only my interpretation of it? It doesn't really fit with the assassin VCs though, unless of course they get some info on other assassins in return for 'doing a job'. Or is that too convoluted?

[Mockra]

Osseric, on 19 September 2012 - 07:12 PM, said:

Edit: for example, what does this mean ?
" If I'm right then Eloth is aware of a faction tie and is less important than that faction tie."

Uh. I thought that was pretty much self explanatory:

Path-Shaper, on 18 September 2012 - 06:32 AM, said:

Welcome to Chapter 3 of Warring States Period (Sengoku) Mafia

The following are the rules specific to this faction game.

Factions:

Each member of a faction knows their leader. The leader of each faction also knows a single member of their faction.

[Korvalain]

Path-Shaper, on 19 September 2012 - 01:14 AM, said:

It is the early 1500's, in lands West of the Imperial capital, Kyoto. With the defeat of the Ashikaga in the East, it did not take much for Western clans to make their own strikes for power. Masamoto Hosokawa struck first. In a conflict between the Hosokawa and the Hatakeyama clan, shogun Yoshitane led troops against Masamoto.
The shogun was defeated.

Masamoto subsequently took control of Kyoto, and exiled Yoshitane, raising Ashikaga Yoshizumi to the post of shogun in his stead. Yoshizumi, however, was nothing more than Masamoto's puppet to control.

This widened the conflict, as the neighboring clans of the Hosokawa decided to tentatively grab for more land, power and control of their destinies.

This is where the situation stands. Three clans, the Hosokawa, the Ouchi and the Amako push and prod each other, looking for any weaknesses. Not ready for open conflict yet, they seek diplomatic means, mild border skirmishes to keep each other off balance as well as even more…underhanded methods to try and seize the upper hand.

The time for brute force has not yet arrived. Instead, look for the knives in the dark….

I guess it COULD be taken as 'hired assassins', but there's no real indication. I think it's a pretty slim thread for Eloth to be hanging on re: stating that assassins are hired.

I had interpreted it as "there will be factions, and there will be assassins," point of the game is to gain superiority over the other factions, and try to out the assassins so that other assassins will take them out rather than people in your faction while they are looking for them.

[Korvalain]

I guess it should also be noted that Eloth could be someone with the ability to hire an assassin rather than an actual assassin. If that were the case, unless I know for sure he's in my faction, I see no point in letting someone with that ability live.

[Korvalain]

Wow, there's been 4-5 anons on for the last little while, and no one is posting. I figured the assassin thing would generate some discussion... I suppose people are just reading up or whatever, hopefully there will be more content for me to chew on when I get home! See you all in a bit!

[D'riss]

That's, what, 4 votes on Eloth now? I definitely got the impression that assassins would be hired as well, but I'm not sure exactly why.

And Mockra, if that was the case, why was Osseric's reaction enough to make you vote for him? I'm just trying to figure out your reasoning here.

[D'riss]

Korvalain, on 19 September 2012 - 08:09 PM, said:

Korvalain, on 19 September 2012 - 08:07 PM, said:

Eloth, on 19 September 2012 - 07:55 PM, said:

What i mean by recruited is hired to kill someone by a faction

This here strikes me as a little weird. I have never played a game with an assassin mechanic, so I don't know much about it (gonna have to go do a little research), but there was no mention in the OP about assassins being hired. Is this another slip, or is the assassins being hired thing a normal assassin mechanic?

Below is from Tapper's FAQ thread:

Quote

Assassin
The Assassin is a regular (scum aligned) killer, except that his kills are unaffected by one or both of the following:
1. heals or bullet proofs on the target,
2. guards on the Assassin.
The role can be watered down by giving a limited number of uses of this ability to the Assassin.
Very exotic, very powerful role.

Nothing there about assassins being hired.

Dude you seem awfully insistent on this lynch. Hell, you just quoted tapper's faq for a different set of games entirely (read: completely separate from shin's sengoku games as far as I'm aware) to support your argument.

[Mockra]

D, on 19 September 2012 - 09:29 PM, said:

And Mockra, if that was the case, why was Osseric's reaction enough to make you vote for him? I'm just trying to figure out your reasoning here.

Ah. It's 8 hours into day 1 so most likely all the speculation so far is total BS. Assuming that I'm right would mean that Eloth is aware that Osseric OR Korosis (orig said Korabas) is a known faction member. "Each member of a faction knows their leader. The leader of each faction also knows a single member of their faction." The leader is unlikely to try to divert from a member. Therefore Osseric OR Korosis (orig said Korabas) is a faction leader. Osseric jumped on my typo very quickly so I weighted him more heavily; the 'very quickly' being the operative in that. However, you also keyed in on the typo. And consensus seems to be building a strong case on the Eloth slipped and revealed.

Edit: I said Korabas in this post. It was Korosis who made the strange "who do we lynch" comment Now I've given myself a headache.

This post has been edited by Mockra: 19 September 2012 - 10:34 PM

[Korvalain]

D, on 19 September 2012 - 09:33 PM, said:

Korvalain, on 19 September 2012 - 08:09 PM, said:

Korvalain, on 19 September 2012 - 08:07 PM, said:

Eloth, on 19 September 2012 - 07:55 PM, said:

What i mean by recruited is hired to kill someone by a faction

This here strikes me as a little weird. I have never played a game with an assassin mechanic, so I don't know much about it (gonna have to go do a little research), but there was no mention in the OP about assassins being hired. Is this another slip, or is the assassins being hired thing a normal assassin mechanic?

Below is from Tapper's FAQ thread:

Quote

Assassin
The Assassin is a regular (scum aligned) killer, except that his kills are unaffected by one or both of the following:
1. heals or bullet proofs on the target,
2. guards on the Assassin.
The role can be watered down by giving a limited number of uses of this ability to the Assassin.
Very exotic, very powerful role.

Nothing there about assassins being hired.

Dude you seem awfully insistent on this lynch. Hell, you just quoted tapper's faq for a different set of games entirely (read: completely separate from shin's sengoku games as far as I'm aware) to support your argument.

Actually, I quoted Tapper's Mafia 101 thread (http://forum.malazan...showtopic=20858) which is about Mafia in General. It has a rundown of just about any role you can think of. And I was just trying to get some kind of idea of what an assassin role usually entails as I thought Eloth's slip about the hiring assassins was a little suspicious.

That being said, I also went back and looked at the previous Sengoku games, and none of them had an assassin role in them, so they are not a good reference for this argument.

I have nothing overly invested in an Eloth lynch. He just keeps digging himself a hole, and seeing as no one else is coming up with anything decent in terms of cases, I took the time to research my accusations to make sure I wasn't making any unwarranted ones. If someone gives me a better lynch target then a likely assassin, then I will move my vote. For now, the fact that he's likely an assassin makes him a safe lynch for me. It assures me that I won't hit someone on my faction, and gets rid of one of the assassins, thus one of the people out there with killing power. I want my faction to win, and getting rid of an assassin makes it a bit easier to do that, though it doesn't directly affect my win conditions.

Rather than just attack me for making an actual case with proof and stuff to back up my accusations, why don't you make a case that I might be willing to move my vote for?

[Spite]

I haven't had much time to post today, but from reading the thread, I do think it is odd how quickly the votes have piled up on Eloth. I may be willing to throw a vote down on Eloth, since as others have mentioned, he may have slipped about knowledge on his role, BUT, why has everyone dismissed Karosis so quickly? I thought his post on 'who should we go after' within the first few posts was pretty scummy.
We still have a while left before Day 1 times out, so I don't see a reason to add to the train yet.