Malazan Empire: Sengoku Chapter 3 : Knives in the Dark - Malazan Empire

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Sengoku Chapter 3 : Knives in the Dark

#121 User is offline   Eloth 

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 02:30 AM

By being hired i meant this: i figured that as the assassins were unaligned to factions, they would be, in the story, hired killers. Therefore, there would be a hiring mechanism. This is how I thought of this. Also, if I were an assassin, would I be this dumb to hypothesis about my own role when every game the day one lynch recently has been people doing what you say I did. Wouldnt I learn from the past?

#122 User is offline   Korvalain 

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 03:06 AM

View PostEloth, on 20 September 2012 - 02:30 AM, said:

By being hired i meant this: i figured that as the assassins were unaligned to factions, they would be, in the story, hired killers. Therefore, there would be a hiring mechanism. This is how I thought of this. Also, if I were an assassin, would I be this dumb to hypothesis about my own role when every game the day one lynch recently has been people doing what you say I did. Wouldnt I learn from the past?


The whole, it's been done before and cause of that, 'would I really do it that way again' thing really doesn't jive with me. I dunno, I suppose Eloth could have just been an inno stepping outta line and making some big assumptions, but out of what's out there right now, I just don't see anything that makes me wanna move my vote. Like I said, I am not 100% invested in an Eloth lynch, but there really isn't much more out there right now.

I will be on thread for another hour max, and then will be on for about an hour and a half before day ends, so if someone wants me to move my vote, there better be a damn good counter case.

#123 User is offline   Eloth 

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 03:13 AM

Counter case for you, pretty damn bad. I believe someone mentioned me distracting from osseric and karosis through my actions. If i was, go after them as then im the symp amd strategy dictates go after the master

#124 User is offline   Karosis 

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 03:15 AM

View PostKorvalain, on 20 September 2012 - 03:06 AM, said:

View PostEloth, on 20 September 2012 - 02:30 AM, said:

By being hired i meant this: i figured that as the assassins were unaligned to factions, they would be, in the story, hired killers. Therefore, there would be a hiring mechanism. This is how I thought of this. Also, if I were an assassin, would I be this dumb to hypothesis about my own role when every game the day one lynch recently has been people doing what you say I did. Wouldnt I learn from the past?


The whole, it's been done before and cause of that, 'would I really do it that way again' thing really doesn't jive with me. I dunno, I suppose Eloth could have just been an inno stepping outta line and making some big assumptions, but out of what's out there right now, I just don't see anything that makes me wanna move my vote. Like I said, I am not 100% invested in an Eloth lynch, but there really isn't much more out there right now.

I will be on thread for another hour max, and then will be on for about an hour and a half before day ends, so if someone wants me to move my vote, there better be a damn good counter case.


inno, really?

Yeah, I'll post some actual content in a few minutes, but this is a faction game right? No innos, no scum., Always ticks me off when people start talking scum and inno in faction games.

#125 User is offline   Karosis 

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 03:37 AM

Had my eats, so a few more comments.

View PostEmurlahn, on 19 September 2012 - 02:30 PM, said:

View PostOsseric, on 19 September 2012 - 02:26 PM, said:

View PostMeanas, on 19 September 2012 - 02:21 PM, said:

View PostKorbas, on 19 September 2012 - 02:06 PM, said:

View PostKarosis, on 19 September 2012 - 03:19 AM, said:

Second. So who do we go after day one? Or do we just do the japansex thing today?


Odd question. Why do you ask who we go after when you're in the first two posters? Especially strange in a faction game, imo.



I thought it odd too


I guess he was trying to deflect attention . find a suitable lynch target so that you yourself will not be lynched .(Important role not wanting to die on his faction ?)





A defence of Karosis from Osseric?


That was not a defence from Osseric. This is a faction game. That's more along the lines of painting a target. Hey look, this guy is important to not my team.

While I normally don't find role speculation a hint of actual roles, I do find the way Eloth posed it as odd.

View PostEloth, on 19 September 2012 - 03:41 PM, said:

Popping in on a free period. No discussion as of yet. What does everyone think about the assassin mechanic?


1. There was previous discussion.
2. It is rare to see someone ask for discussion of one specific role in a faction game. If we assume that the previously posited distribution of four members per team is correct, then there are four roles not being asked about. Normally, someone will at least drop something about another potential role or two to fish for information on who has them.

The OP states the following:

View PostPath-Shaper, on 18 September 2012 - 06:32 AM, said:

Factions:

Each member of a faction knows their leader. The leader of each faction also knows a single member of their faction.

Victory conditions for factions:

Achieve numerical superiority over rival factions.
Unaligned assassins are not included when calculating faction numbers.




I reread this after the noise Eloth made about assassins being able to be hired and seeing this post:

View PostGalain, on 19 September 2012 - 08:34 PM, said:

The thing that I would point out is that the OP scene setter does make it sound as if assassins will be hired to kill certain people, rather than being completely independent, or is that only my interpretation of it? It doesn't really fit with the assassin VCs though, unless of course they get some info on other assassins in return for 'doing a job'. Or is that too convoluted?


Note that it specifically states the unaligned assassins do not count against victory conditions. Not assassins in general. This makes it seem that both Eloth and Galain may be on to something, that assassins may be or become aligned (kinda doubt it though).

From the sum of these, I have doubts on whether Eloth is an assassin. If they are not an assassin, I still I think they were given information about assasins that I was not, which if it means they can hire assassins makes them more dangerous than an actual assassin. I also do not think they are in my faction so I am fine with voting for Eloth today.

#126 User is offline   D'riss 

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 04:10 AM

Ugh. So still two no-shows, and Eloth looks like the best option still.

I might not be around to vote tomorrow, so I will lay down my vote now.

Eloth, calling up wifom doesn't really do much to sway people away from voting you.

Vote Eloth

If anyone else is around I'd be glad to chat for a bit.

#127 User is offline   D'riss 

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 04:16 AM

@Korbas: I agree re: dangerous role.

1 other anon here. Hark! Who be you?

#128 User is offline   Mockra 

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 04:22 AM

View PostKarosis, on 20 September 2012 - 01:20 AM, said:

I disagree that it is an especially strange coment in a faction game. Maybe I could have added a smiley so people would get that the post was a meant as a jocular commentary on how day ones normally go. Spam followed by running a train on the first person to have a serious case made on them, and the train running part is more common in faction games.
I've just skimmed the rest of the thread so far, so I'll go back over the Eloth stuff (and everything else) once I've had a bite.



View PostKarosis, on 20 September 2012 - 03:15 AM, said:

View PostKorvalain, on 20 September 2012 - 03:06 AM, said:

The whole, it's been done before and cause of that, 'would I really do it that way again' thing really doesn't jive with me. I dunno, I suppose Eloth could have just been an inno stepping outta line and making some big assumptions, but out of what's out there right now, I just don't see anything that makes me wanna move my vote. Like I said, I am not 100% invested in an Eloth lynch, but there really isn't much more out there right now. .


Yeah, I'll post some actual content in a few minutes, but this is a faction game right? No innos, no scum., Always ticks me off when people start talking scum and inno in faction games.



View PostKarosis, on 20 September 2012 - 03:37 AM, said:

Had my eats, so a few more comments.

View PostEmurlahn, on 19 September 2012 - 02:30 PM, said:

View PostOsseric, on 19 September 2012 - 02:26 PM, said:

I guess he was trying to deflect attention . find a suitable lynch target so that you yourself will not be lynched .(Important role not wanting to die on his faction ?)





A defence of Karosis from Osseric?


That was not a defence from Osseric. This is a faction game. That's more along the lines of painting a target. Hey look, this guy is important to not my team.

While I normally don't find role speculation a hint of actual roles, I do find the way Eloth posed it as odd.

View PostEloth, on 19 September 2012 - 03:41 PM, said:

Popping in on a free period. No discussion as of yet. What does everyone think about the assassin mechanic?


1. There was previous discussion.
2. It is rare to see someone ask for discussion of one specific role in a faction game. If we assume that the previously posited distribution of four members per team is correct, then there are four roles not being asked about. Normally, someone will at least drop something about another potential role or two to fish for information on who has them.

The OP states the following:

View PostPath-Shaper, on 18 September 2012 - 06:32 AM, said:

Factions:

Each member of a faction knows their leader. The leader of each faction also knows a single member of their faction.

Victory conditions for factions:

Achieve numerical superiority over rival factions.
Unaligned assassins are not included when calculating faction numbers.




I reread this after the noise Eloth made about assassins being able to be hired and seeing this post:

View PostGalain, on 19 September 2012 - 08:34 PM, said:

The thing that I would point out is that the OP scene setter does make it sound as if assassins will be hired to kill certain people, rather than being completely independent, or is that only my interpretation of it? It doesn't really fit with the assassin VCs though, unless of course they get some info on other assassins in return for 'doing a job'. Or is that too convoluted?


Note that it specifically states the unaligned assassins do not count against victory conditions. Not assassins in general. This makes it seem that both Eloth and Galain may be on to something, that assassins may be or become aligned (kinda doubt it though).

From the sum of these, I have doubts on whether Eloth is an assassin. If they are not an assassin, I still I think they were given information about assasins that I was not, which if it means they can hire assassins makes them more dangerous than an actual assassin. I also do not think they are in my faction so I am fine with voting for Eloth today.

Well damn.
I must thinks. Lots and lots of thinks.
You did all of that while eating a meal? Are you going to eat dessert? Because if you were that devastatingly concise and thought provoking after a mere meal, what could you do after a relaxing dessert?

#129 User is offline   Karosis 

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 04:38 AM

After dessert I could take a nap.

I'll be around for a wee bit longer, but am likely voting Eloth before I head off (I may not be back before time out).

#130 User is offline   Karosis 

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 05:04 AM

Offf for now, so before I go:

Vote Eloth

#131 User is offline   Mockra 

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 05:14 AM

View PostKarosis, on 20 September 2012 - 03:37 AM, said:

From the sum of these, I have doubts on whether Eloth is an assassin. If they are not an assassin, I still I think they were given information about assasins that I was not, which if it means they can hire assassins makes them more dangerous than an actual assassin. I also do not think they are in my faction so I am fine with voting for Eloth today.


That is convincing.
Remove vote
Vote Eloth



#132 User is offline   Liosan 

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 06:27 AM

I absolutely forgot I was playing this game.

Let me read.

#133 User is offline   Liosan 

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 06:52 AM

I want to know why Mockra does not have a Profile Picture. This displeases me greatly.

In more relevant news, I don't think Eloth speculating about role stuff is that odd in a faction game, but the recruit/hiring thing seems off to me. I see nothing about it in the setup post, just about how the factions and assassins are playing in the same area but have different goals. I also don't like Shin saying factions/assassin VC's are mutually exclusive when they clearly aren't. But maybe I'm just being pedantic. However, I have doubts that Eloth is attempting to distract from someone else at this point since no one was getting any heat when he started his talk.

I'll be dropping a vote on him a little later unless someone brings up a reason not to, but I believe we have a couple hours left and I'm around and would love a PS update.

#134 User is offline   Sorrit 

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 07:56 AM

My first thought was that eloth could be an assasin, then I sat back and watched who was the most eager to jump on a potential assasin as they were in my mind the players most likely to be the other 3 assasins.

killing an assasin wont help or hinder me, apart from giving me info on who else could be an assasin and thus helping me figure out who isnt on my faction or an assasin and therefore a lynchable target.

Is it the assasin mechanic or is the assasin simply the name shin has used for this role in this game?

Im prepared to throw my vote on eloth to get the lynch, after all I could be wrong and maybe he has the hiring an assasin thing like karosis said.

I am online for a while so will wait and see for now

#135 User is offline   Fener 

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 08:17 AM

Apologies for the belated entrance, it couldn't be helped. Fener accounted for. I will read up and endeavor to contribute as much as possible before day ends.

#136 User is offline   Emurlahn 

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 08:24 AM

My posting is going to be low at best the next day or so I'm travelling. I've read up but not got much chance to post my thoughts, posting from phone here which means quoting is a bitch. I can see why people want to vote eloth, it seems like he is digging a deeper hole each time he posts. I'll try come back later

#137 User is offline   Tellan 

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 08:44 AM

View PostSorrit, on 20 September 2012 - 07:56 AM, said:

My first thought was that eloth could be an assasin, then I sat back and watched who was the most eager to jump on a potential assasin as they were in my mind the players most likely to be the other 3 assasins.

killing an assasin wont help or hinder me, apart from giving me info on who else could be an assasin and thus helping me figure out who isnt on my faction or an assasin and therefore a lynchable target.

Is it the assasin mechanic or is the assasin simply the name shin has used for this role in this game?

Im prepared to throw my vote on eloth to get the lynch, after all I could be wrong and maybe he has the hiring an assasin thing like karosis said.

I am online for a while so will wait and see for now



I agree, I don't think Eloth is an assassin, but I don't think it's true that we should be simply ignoring the assasins. The assasins pose a very real threat to the factions, they are unpredictable and as they are not aligned to any factions they could do serious damage.

Eloth's comments about recruiting/hiring the assasins makes me think he has this ability. That makes me pretty wary of him already, but I'll be around for most of the rest of the night, so I'm not voting yet.

#138 User is offline   Fener 

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 08:47 AM

So far, I've read up through where everyone is talking about shaving. So as not to have missed being able to share my thoughts on such a topic - I shave with tree sap and a dull blade.

#139 User is offline   Path-Shaper 

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 08:47 AM

It is Day 1, 6 hours and 12 minutes are left in the day.

16 players are left alive.


D'riss, Eloth, Emurlahn, Fener, Galain, Karosis, Korbas, Korvalain, Liosan, Meanas, Mockra, Olar Ethil, Osseric, Sorrit, Spite, Tellan


9 votes to lynch, 8 to go to night.

6 votes Eloth: Korbas, Korvalain, Galain, Mockra, D'riss, Karosis

Players not voting:

Eloth, Emurlahn, Fener, Liosan, Meanas, Olar Ethil, Osseric, Sorrit, Spite, Tellan

This post has been edited by Path-Shaper: 20 September 2012 - 11:32 AM

Only someone with this much power could make this many frittatas without breaking any eggs.
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#140 User is offline   Path-Shaper 

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 08:51 AM

View PostLiosan, on 20 September 2012 - 06:52 AM, said:

I also don't like Shin saying factions/assassin VC's are mutually exclusive when they clearly aren't. But maybe I'm just being pedantic.


Can you explain more clearly what is bothering you? Perhaps I have worded it badly, or there is a misunderstanding here. My only goal was to make it clear that the VC's are not dependent on each other (besides the fact that the faction VC's can potentially end the game before the assassins can reach a resolution). If that's your problem, then yes, I worded that badly.
Only someone with this much power could make this many frittatas without breaking any eggs.
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